billtc3

Was he running 1/12th? If so, there is no way to compare the performance to touring. 4 cells and feather-weight cars are way different than touring

billtc3

ML, I think the neo and the vector just use different decals. I couldn't compare the brakes between brushed/brushless, cause I used a one-way and I hardly ever used brakes. 8.15 gear ratio is really low. I don't know what to say. All I can do is hope that one of the fast guys in my area also runs brushless some time soon, so that I can see if my system (or my brain) is defective, or if LRP is not really accurate on the 9t thing!

e_lm_70

Hi Guys,

What a pitty that standard BL system are not allowed by ROAR ... and people have to accept expensive powerless sensored brushed system.

Just few weeks ago, I was having some fun on our club track with my basic TB01R with a Hacker C40 8S and my Schulze 18.61 (using my GP3000, the GP3300 and GP3700 I just use for racing).

Since it was just couple of hours before a regular race, there was on the track also a 12T motor TC car (the one allowed in Modified TC class) driven by a guy that last year was in the A final in the world 1/12 ... so not a casual driver with a somehow build up car ...

Clearly due to my driving skills, and due to the fact that my TB01R was ultra-heavy and way out of proper setting, I was not able to keep in the same round speed like him ... but on the main streaight I was as fast as this 12T car ... and my impression was that I was able accelerate better then him !

In order to prevent termal protection I had to reduce the timing to minimum on my 18.61 ... with a better schulze ESC (18.97, 18.127 or U75) I would have been able to have better top speed since I could have used more aggressive timing.

So if the new LRP set is not capable to compete with a 12T motor ... then what was the goal on design a new Motor and ESC for not been able to match BL product already available in the market since years !

What a pitty that Hacker C40S have been not allowed as ROAR ... If they just fix some max dimension of the motor and leave everything else free ... just keepeing the rule that motor should be available for a price <= XYZ $ would have been far better for RC people ... but maybe not enough profittable for some RC company.

e_lm_70

P.S: The owner of our club in the last races was showing in his shopping vertrine the latest LRP ESC and motor ... (260 Euro + 110 Euro) ... not clear for which purpose since he is also the first that he doesn't want to allow brushless in the 12T class (the fastest class in Austria)

DJG24

Jon Orr ran both 1/12 and touring car. I was comparing touring car to touring car. A little more detail on my comparison though. I sat with Jon for about 1/2 hour going over the Sphere/Neo setup. He said when they first arrived they were down on power compared to the 7x1 that everybody else was running (that is why Blackstock switched to a brushed motor) His 1/12 scale was good because most were running 8 - 9 turn motors in those. Now the prototype motor he had did not have adjustable timing so he was stuck with what he felt to be around 8 -9 turm motor in his TC. They contacted reedy mid week and were told of a way to disassemble the motor and advance the timing for his TC4. They did this and were pleased to get the results they were looking for and his motor was more like a 7-8 turn brushed motor but the efficency and gearing made his car very close to the others that were running brushed motors. Hope that clears it up. TC to TC the sphere/neo combination Orr ran was just as fast and in some cases (mid to end run) Faster!

e_lm_70

Can somebody explain me what is the sense to allow a physical change in a Brushless Motor in order to help the adjustment of the timing ????????

In "real" BL system, the only element in charge to set the timing it is the BL ESC !

What the value of use BL sensors, when sensorless BL ESC work already as top end brushed ESC .... or the problem is that LRP will be never able to catch up in a short time frame with some German ESC producer ?

e_lm_70

billtc3

Thanks DJG24, you did make things a bit clearer. Truth is that I didn't experiment much with timing. I stayed with the standard setup and went for high gear ratios, like I would do with a brushed motor in a big track.

MrC

@billtc3
Adjust the timing on the motor to 6 and reduce the gear ratio a bit. I would suggest you start with 7,5 on a fast, big track and Timing 6. It will give you noticeable more midrange and toprange aswell.
Be sure to use the heatsink and ONLY attach it with the supplied double-sided thermal tape, when using the SPHERE in brushless mode. Do not use standard double-sided tape, as this will "block" the heat....I have seen it all......
If you are running at high ambient temperatures and the track is pretty hot (we are talking about 30°C+ and 55°C+ on the track) you MAY need an additional fan to cool down the speedo with the high motor timing. Other then that, the SPHERE should work fine without any additional fan.

@somerwil
It´s a pity to hear, that your speedo blew up. Please send it to your national LRP distributor, include the filled out Limited Lifetime Warranty card and you should get a new speedo as fast as possible.

@e_lm_70
Basically this is an additional way to increase motor power. As well as changing the timing by software with the ESC, it is still possible to change it by hardware also. As simple as that. It will move the power band of the motor more to high rpms.
Also "real" BL systems, as you call them, are not allowed to run on international races. There are rules for brushless racing and the SPHERE and VECTOR have been built to fit those rules. Although many "real" BL users think, that sensorless technology is the way to go, a sensored brushless system will outperfom any sensorless brushless system as soon as it comes to low rpms. Even the most sophisticated arithmetical equations can not match the reaction time of a simple hardware sensored system. What does it help to be TQ, if you loose your first place as soon as the race starts?

Sensoreless systems are also allowed for international races. So every manufacturer is free to choose. LRP and NOVAK have choosen to go the sensored way. I´m personally looking forward to see the other firms presenting there new systems. The next two years will be very interesting in regards of brushless racing.

Anyway, I think there is no point to discuss about apples and bananas. Due to the restriction of the international rules for brushless, there will always be other brushless system, no matter if sensored or sensorless, which have more power with those multi-pole, delta-wound low turn motors.

Cheers
Andy

yzafrir

does the sphere comes with the heatsink included in the kit ??
if not what is the part number ??

i saw that the neo does not have the signs of timming adj. on its sticker so is it the same like the vector ??

MrC

@yzafrir
Yes, the SPHERE does come with the heatsink and the proper doublesided, thermal tape included.

Cheers
Andy

CrazyGreek

Dear MrC i have a Question.
I placed the heatsink on my Sphere but after a while i was forced on a car cleanup to take it off. Can i buy this tape from LRP seperatly? and if yes what is the part number, since its a nice part to always have as a spare.

teamride

iTrader: (6)

i just got my sphere and neo, and i think there great. the esc is pritty small and i think the motor has great power for my xxx-4

DirtyDog3375

iTrader: (37)

HI Andy,

I was just wondering if the LRP brushless/Reedy Neo that Jon Orr used at the ROAR nats is the same as the production units currently available?
Also, which is the more powerful motor (neo or vector) or are they both the same?

burito

@DirtyDog: the combination Jon Orr ran to win the 1/12th nationals was the exact combination you can buy now (production Sphere with 3-Star motor).

The Reedy and the LRP share the same VTEC X9 teardown...

lonepalm4

Burrito (you work for lrp right?): i'm not sure if this is a fluke, but the bec on my sphere is VERY weak. it WILL NOT run without a receiver battery.... Just thought you should know in case a running change needs to be made... I for one will be sending mine back for a refund or replacement. otherwise, it seems nice... i like how small and light it is.

DirtyDog3375

iTrader: (37)

Thanks for the info Burito. Do you know what settings (esc) and timing (motor) to get the system to perform like a 'tuned' 8 or 9 turn motor for touring cars. (large track=110+ straight, 160x50)