PICK 7 Classes for On-Road Carpet
08-07-2009, 07:46 AM
#167
How many reasons do you want, Jim? There are as many reasons as there are people.
Event promoters need people to show up and pay to help fund large events, like those held at hotels. If there was only a mod class, you would be renting a hotel ballroom for what, 15 races?
People on the club level rarely, if ever run mod. It stands to reason that if you are going to promote a large event, you need filler to make it worthwhile to rent the hotel. By offering spec classes, it gives people that will never race mod; 1. bragging rights to be top of the spec class, 2. a reason to drop some hard earned cash to watch the big dogs fight it out. I am sure that if some spec class was offered for nitro, there would be people to fill the class up.
The stock vs. mod classes were started well over 25 years ago, for many reasons. It has been tradition to continue these classes. As far as foam vs. rubber, because people are as convinced that one is better than the other... it all depends on where you are in the country. As far as I am concerned foam pan cars is where it is at...
Event promoters need people to show up and pay to help fund large events, like those held at hotels. If there was only a mod class, you would be renting a hotel ballroom for what, 15 races?
People on the club level rarely, if ever run mod. It stands to reason that if you are going to promote a large event, you need filler to make it worthwhile to rent the hotel. By offering spec classes, it gives people that will never race mod; 1. bragging rights to be top of the spec class, 2. a reason to drop some hard earned cash to watch the big dogs fight it out. I am sure that if some spec class was offered for nitro, there would be people to fill the class up.
The stock vs. mod classes were started well over 25 years ago, for many reasons. It has been tradition to continue these classes. As far as foam vs. rubber, because people are as convinced that one is better than the other... it all depends on where you are in the country. As far as I am concerned foam pan cars is where it is at...
08-07-2009, 08:15 AM
#168
I think beside's Jim's question we have to ask ourselves this:
At the offroad nats this past year there were 215 entries for the 1/8 buggy class. Everyone runs together, has a great time and probably 190 of those people know they have no shot in hell of making the A main. They go to the race to have fun and there is no problem with normal racers competing with Adam Drake etc.
In on road, everyone thinks they should have a chance at winning and if the competition is too stiff they create another class that they have a better shot at winning at. No one wants to run against the top dogs in on road.
If we just had 13.5 as the only class because it is slower than mod would everyone run together and not worry that they could not beat Paul L?
Why is this?
At the offroad nats this past year there were 215 entries for the 1/8 buggy class. Everyone runs together, has a great time and probably 190 of those people know they have no shot in hell of making the A main. They go to the race to have fun and there is no problem with normal racers competing with Adam Drake etc.
In on road, everyone thinks they should have a chance at winning and if the competition is too stiff they create another class that they have a better shot at winning at. No one wants to run against the top dogs in on road.
If we just had 13.5 as the only class because it is slower than mod would everyone run together and not worry that they could not beat Paul L?
Why is this?
08-07-2009, 08:19 AM
#169
08-07-2009, 08:30 AM
#170
I think beside's Jim's question we have to ask ourselves this:
At the offroad nats this past year there were 215 entries for the 1/8 buggy class. Everyone runs together, has a great time and probably 190 of those people know they have no shot in hell of making the A main. They go to the race to have fun and there is no problem with normal racers competing with Adam Drake etc.
In on road, everyone thinks they should have a chance at winning and if the competition is too stiff they create another class that they have a better shot at winning at. No one wants to run against the top dogs in on road.
If we just had 13.5 as the only class because it is slower than mod would everyone run together and not worry that they could not beat Paul L?
Why is this?
At the offroad nats this past year there were 215 entries for the 1/8 buggy class. Everyone runs together, has a great time and probably 190 of those people know they have no shot in hell of making the A main. They go to the race to have fun and there is no problem with normal racers competing with Adam Drake etc.
In on road, everyone thinks they should have a chance at winning and if the competition is too stiff they create another class that they have a better shot at winning at. No one wants to run against the top dogs in on road.
If we just had 13.5 as the only class because it is slower than mod would everyone run together and not worry that they could not beat Paul L?
Why is this?
Grand Slam rules were great 2 classes..Just wish Paul and a few others had time to enjoy a few events to meet there matches!!
Eat more Chicken!!!
08-07-2009, 08:33 AM
#171
We don't even need to make this about mod. Lets look at it from a 17.5 vs 13.5 view why do we need those 2 classes?
08-07-2009, 08:49 AM
#172
How many reasons do you want, Jim? There are as many reasons as there are people.
Event promoters need people to show up and pay to help fund large events, like those held at hotels. If there was only a mod class, you would be renting a hotel ballroom for what, 15 races?
People on the club level rarely, if ever run mod. It stands to reason that if you are going to promote a large event, you need filler to make it worthwhile to rent the hotel. By offering spec classes, it gives people that will never race mod; 1. bragging rights to be top of the spec class, 2. a reason to drop some hard earned cash to watch the big dogs fight it out. I am sure that if some spec class was offered for nitro, there would be people to fill the class up.
The stock vs. mod classes were started well over 25 years ago, for many reasons. It has been tradition to continue these classes. As far as foam vs. rubber, because people are as convinced that one is better than the other... it all depends on where you are in the country. As far as I am concerned foam pan cars is where it is at...
Event promoters need people to show up and pay to help fund large events, like those held at hotels. If there was only a mod class, you would be renting a hotel ballroom for what, 15 races?
People on the club level rarely, if ever run mod. It stands to reason that if you are going to promote a large event, you need filler to make it worthwhile to rent the hotel. By offering spec classes, it gives people that will never race mod; 1. bragging rights to be top of the spec class, 2. a reason to drop some hard earned cash to watch the big dogs fight it out. I am sure that if some spec class was offered for nitro, there would be people to fill the class up.
The stock vs. mod classes were started well over 25 years ago, for many reasons. It has been tradition to continue these classes. As far as foam vs. rubber, because people are as convinced that one is better than the other... it all depends on where you are in the country. As far as I am concerned foam pan cars is where it is at...
I understand why there isn't a mod class in carpet racing. The cars are too fast, and the tracks are too small. All of the spec classes have come out of the need to bring back some semblance of the stock/mod days.
I don't think a spec class in nitro would work, only because you don't see anyone really looking for one. Technically you could call nitro TC a spec class since you're limited to a 3 port .12 engine. Also there is the IGT class, but that has it's own issues like foam vs. rubber tires, and stock vs. open engines. That class is small, but growing.
Off road is a different animal. All the power in the world isn't going to help because you can't put it all to the ground. Dirt is the great equalizer, or so I have been told.
That's the one problem with on road electric in spec classes. Any slight increase in power becomes a tremdous advantage. Look at what people will do even for a percieved advantage, like spending a ton of money on a new sc just so they can make a timing adjustment.
Timmay, I'm with you on pan cars. 12th scale forever!
08-07-2009, 08:55 AM
#173
You sort of missed my point. Why does someone think they can compete with Adam drake but not Paul L? They are of the same caliber of drivers in what they do.
We don't even need to make this about mod. Lets look at it from a 17.5 vs 13.5 view why do we need those 2 classes?
We don't even need to make this about mod. Lets look at it from a 17.5 vs 13.5 view why do we need those 2 classes?
08-07-2009, 09:02 AM
#174
Actually I think there are more reasons than people.
I understand why there isn't a mod class in carpet racing. The cars are too fast, and the tracks are too small. All of the spec classes have come out of the need to bring back some semblance of the stock/mod days.
I don't think a spec class in nitro would work, only because you don't see anyone really looking for one. Technically you could call nitro TC a spec class since you're limited to a 3 port .12 engine. Also there is the IGT class, but that has it's own issues like foam vs. rubber tires, and stock vs. open engines. That class is small, but growing.
Off road is a different animal. All the power in the world isn't going to help because you can't put it all to the ground. Dirt is the great equalizer, or so I have been told.
That's the one problem with on road electric in spec classes. Any slight increase in power becomes a tremdous advantage. Look at what people will do even for a percieved advantage, like spending a ton of money on a new sc just so they can make a timing adjustment.
Timmay, I'm with you on pan cars. 12th scale forever!
I understand why there isn't a mod class in carpet racing. The cars are too fast, and the tracks are too small. All of the spec classes have come out of the need to bring back some semblance of the stock/mod days.
I don't think a spec class in nitro would work, only because you don't see anyone really looking for one. Technically you could call nitro TC a spec class since you're limited to a 3 port .12 engine. Also there is the IGT class, but that has it's own issues like foam vs. rubber tires, and stock vs. open engines. That class is small, but growing.
Off road is a different animal. All the power in the world isn't going to help because you can't put it all to the ground. Dirt is the great equalizer, or so I have been told.
That's the one problem with on road electric in spec classes. Any slight increase in power becomes a tremdous advantage. Look at what people will do even for a percieved advantage, like spending a ton of money on a new sc just so they can make a timing adjustment.
Timmay, I'm with you on pan cars. 12th scale forever!
I have to agree. Dirt is the great equalizer. You are always looking for traction in offroad. I race my 2wd buggy with a 13.5 in the mod class and pull the same lap times as the guys running 7.5's. With carpet we have almost unlimited tracion and try to dial out grip inorder to reach a happy balance. The smallest hp, rpm or voltage gain is very noticable on carpet.
I do think there is a need for mod classes in onroad, but for the most part it is not needed at a local level. Mod should be run at Nationals and other big races. Most club racing would be fine with either 17.5 or 13.5 only. Keep the foam and rubber classes, maybe 17.5 rubber and 13.5 foam. VTA is in a class by itself and need no changes in my opinion.
08-07-2009, 09:15 AM
#175
Tech Addict
iTrader: (9)
Maybe if you guys mixed the material to race on in a
course it would equalize some of the options to racing
and the esc wars. Example do a track that is partial
carpet/ pavement or such. One question I do have
how come on the tracks you never see a rise on the
lanes at all ? A complete flat track looks ok and still is tough
to me I am just wondering.
Dynodan22
course it would equalize some of the options to racing
and the esc wars. Example do a track that is partial
carpet/ pavement or such. One question I do have
how come on the tracks you never see a rise on the
lanes at all ? A complete flat track looks ok and still is tough
to me I am just wondering.
Dynodan22
08-07-2009, 09:23 AM
#176
08-07-2009, 10:29 AM
#177
08-07-2009, 10:52 AM
#178
Where do you race Jim, as I know of several tracks locally that ran nitro onroad and had multiple classes.. 1/8th, 235, 200TC and sometimes open and spec 3 port motor versions as for offroad there is buggy, truggy, gas truck, muggy and monster truck aka tmaxx now at big races I have seen sportsmen intermediate and pro versions of monster truck, buggy and truggy like the psycho nitro blast with 350 entries. or the RC pro series which I think has sportsmen open and pro.
I think you see big 8th scale races like the Roar buggy nats have such turnout is because of the cost related to travel is not a prohibiting factor to your average 8th driver. I have a cargo trailer to go to 8th scale offroad races. When you spend $400 on a good motor or 2 and $500 or $600 on a good car plus parts cost more on average. $150 each on servos $100 on a good pipe $25+ a gallon on fuel M3 tires cost $25 or $30 a set. What's $2000 more to get a trailer. More likely 8th scale drivers due to the inherent costs of the class alone have the means to travel. Electric can be had for $300 tc5 new $200 motor speedo $50 servo $30 spec tyres last longer over all $80 lipo now a days about half the price as 8th when you add it up. More conducive to local club racing and not traveling.
Granted I'm an exception to the rule as I have traveled 500 miles to run a club race for onroad and traveled weekly 200 miles oneway to run a points series in another town for 12th scale.
I think you see big 8th scale races like the Roar buggy nats have such turnout is because of the cost related to travel is not a prohibiting factor to your average 8th driver. I have a cargo trailer to go to 8th scale offroad races. When you spend $400 on a good motor or 2 and $500 or $600 on a good car plus parts cost more on average. $150 each on servos $100 on a good pipe $25+ a gallon on fuel M3 tires cost $25 or $30 a set. What's $2000 more to get a trailer. More likely 8th scale drivers due to the inherent costs of the class alone have the means to travel. Electric can be had for $300 tc5 new $200 motor speedo $50 servo $30 spec tyres last longer over all $80 lipo now a days about half the price as 8th when you add it up. More conducive to local club racing and not traveling.
Granted I'm an exception to the rule as I have traveled 500 miles to run a club race for onroad and traveled weekly 200 miles oneway to run a points series in another town for 12th scale.
08-07-2009, 10:59 AM
#180
I dont think that the issue is that people believe they can beat the Drake. I think it has to deal with the fact that it is one class. They have no other option if they wnat to racce.
I just sold an onroad car to someone entering the hobby and when I started explaining the different cattegories and rules and motors he was lost and confused.
This I believe is the main issue.
Club Racing should only have one class of motor.
13.5 touring (Rubber or Foam Club to decide)
17.5 1/12 & WGT.
Then when someone says what motor should I buy the answer becomes simple.
I just sold an onroad car to someone entering the hobby and when I started explaining the different cattegories and rules and motors he was lost and confused.
This I believe is the main issue.
Club Racing should only have one class of motor.
13.5 touring (Rubber or Foam Club to decide)
17.5 1/12 & WGT.
Then when someone says what motor should I buy the answer becomes simple.