Aluma

iTrader: (1)

Hi guys, did search and found LOTS of posts, but not quite what I was looking for... could y'all help me out? Haven't bought new tires in a while and I noticed that there are more choices than before.

I've used sorex 32R's and CS27's in the past with good results, but am wondering about the RP-30's and the powers international tires from speedtech.

Which is best for outdoor, dusty, bumpy asphalt?

Core Creations

iTrader: (108)

I personally feel that the RP30 is a faster tire than the CS27, but it falls off faster than the CS27s do. I have some really worn 27s that still do great at club level. But the RPs seem to loose grip after a couple heat cycles...maybe 3 or 4 good runs then they really seem to fall off.

I have also had some mixed results with the Sorex tires...they seem real consistent indoors with the cooler compunds on carpet...but the warmer compounds 32-36 etc. seem to not be as consistent or long lasting outside...but that's just me.

gotyournumber

Is the surface sealed or un sealed?

Aluma

iTrader: (1)

Thank you for your input! Anyone else have something to add?

Aluma

iTrader: (1)

well it was re-tarred a year ago.

AdrianM

iTrader: (4)

You are correct in your opinion.

The CS (Control Standard) series are designed to run consistently for as many runs as possible. This is a huge advantage for a tire used for spec tire races.

The RP (Racing Physics) series are designed to be an all out racing tire. Fast lap times were a more important design criteria than tire life. RP tires are usually 1-2/10ths per lap faster than a similar compound CS tire.

Tire life - CS27

Stock or 19T : 6-10 runs before falling off
Open Mod: 4-6 runs

Tire life - RP30

Stock or 19T : 4-8 runs before falling off
Open Mod: 2-4 runs

The better you car setup the longer your tires will stay fast. Cars that are really working well slide less and this reduces tire wear.

The best traction compounds are:

CS tires:

Cold 0-75 deg F track surface : Paragon Ground Effects
Warm 65-120 deg F: 50/50 Mix of Paragon FXII and Trinity Tire Tweak
Hot 100-160 deg F: Tire Tweak

RP tires:

Cold 0-75 deg F track surface : Paragon Ground Effects
Warm 65-120 deg F: Hybrid Dip baked 20min with tire warmers
Hot 100-160 deg F: Hybrid Dip

Core Creations

iTrader: (108)

Yeah, I have been using the Trinity Tire Tweak and am actually very happy with it.

quantum

Adrian, if it were up to you, which tire would you recommend for the IIC? CS or RP?
(supposing of course that sales of more tires due to the drop in grip did not benefit you!!! )

AdrianM

iTrader: (4)

We are working with a few top drivers from the top teams testing tires now.

I think the RP24 or RP 30 will be the way to go at the IIC.

Aluma

iTrader: (1)

SOOO THATS WHAT THAT MEANS!!!!

Its been years and I always wondered what CS stood for. :P
Thanks Adrian, RP are then not for me cuz I rarely buy tires and need them to last a long time.

well, so far I have CS-27's and Sorex 32's to choose from...

I know CS-27's come in preglued packs, has anyone seen Sorex 32's in preglued packs?

PitCrew

I have personally had great results with Sorex 36's, both indoor asphalt, and out door sealed and non-sealed.

I have tried a set of the Speedmind Sorex premounts, and they are a great deal. They are just a tad slower that the Sorex components built with thin firm inserts. (My fav. is Sorex 36r's with Sorex type C thin firm inserts on Hudy Medium wheels)

aus jd 2703

iTrader: (5)

hey adrian would u have some sort of guide to tire compound to track temp?
ive been using 36'r sorex and am buying 32 sorex and 28r's sorex and was wondering if what temps should i change tires also what traction compund i should use as i dont have warmers please and thank you
oh what are the pro's and cons of sorex versue rp or cs???

bvoltz

iTrader: (44)

Hope this helps you out... I got it from another posting...

Tire Chart:

Take-Off
CS22 - 32 - 86f= 0 - 30c
CS27 - 50 - 122f=10 - 50c
CS32 - 68 - 140f=20 - 60c
CS37 -104 - 158f=40 - 70c
RP24 –
RP30 –

SOREX
20R –
24R - 59 - 68f=15 - 20c
28R - 68 - 82f=20 - 28c
32R - 81 - 97f=27 - 36c
36R - 97 - 151f=36 - 66c
40R -120 - 171f=49 - 77c

Powers
PJ22 - 32 - 77f= 0 - 25c
PJ27 - 50 - 113f=10 - 45c
PJ30 - 68 - 140f=20 - 60c
PJ35 -104 - 158f=40 - 70c
CS22, 24r, RP24 are the same
CS27, 28r, RP30 are the same
CS32, 36r, RP32 (or is it 36?) are the same
PJ30 - 68 - 140f=20 - 60c
PJ35 -104 - 158f=40 - 70c

AdrianM

iTrader: (4)

I cant speak for the non take off tires but you cant go by the above temp ranges for take off. CS and RP have usable temp ranges so wide you cant pick tires by track temp.

For example CS27 work from ~60deg F to ~150deg F just fine. CS32's are near useless at any temperature outdoors. The only time you need to use CS32's is under extreme traction conditions to free up your car. However, the CS32 is THE tire at Hobbytown, Frederic's indoor asphalt track.

Instead of temperature...think traction. CS22 for low traction, CS27 at most places, CS32 to cope with obscene traction. The CS37...well...dont don't really stock that tire.

The RP's are more temp specific but they still have really broad ranges. Last weekend while testing for the Reedy Race in FL. Paul Wynn and Teemu Leino of Schumacher and Jeff Dayger and Ray Darroch of Corally were running RP30GL's on a track that was 160 deg F and they were getting along just fine.

The only RP that does not like heat is the RP24. That is an indoor carpet tire or a cool night asphalt tire. The RP30 like the CS27 seems to work everywhere. The RP36 wears better and may be faster than the RP30 on really hot tracks. The RP40 runs just like the 36 in early testing but we haven't really run it that much. The RP40 still has tons of traction so its not like the CS32 or 37.

quantum

i guess i can understand why you would make that choice...i hope you can understand why a racer like myself would be disappointed with that choice.

especially when they were almost traction rolling last year at iic with the cs27 (is more traction really whats needed?)

on another note, thanks for all this great tire info! i think its a first from anyone!

AdrianM

iTrader: (4)

This may sound a little crazy but sometimes stickier tires make you car traction roll less. If the tires slide then grip you can traction roll. If a stickier tire grips consistently and doesn't slide you will traction roll less.

Everyone we talked to after the IIC was complaining of a lack of traction in the rubber class. Not enough forward bite to put the power down and not enough side bite to throw the car hard into the corners. Some said it was like driving drift cars...lol!

Paul Wynn finished 5th in the Mod Rubber A-Main. He was running a one way, 17 lb front springs and 14 lb rear springs, 1.2mm sway bars, and 40wt oil front and rear with quite a bit of droop on his Schumacher Mi2 and he was nowhere near traction rolling.

This is basically an asphalt setup with a one way added. May guys new to rubber carpet racing were running harder springs thinking that they were necessary for rubber carpet. That is not at all true and often causes traction rolling. No driver in the Mod A-Main ran a spring stiffer than 19lb and some were running 12.9lb springs front an rear.

I don't mean to knock you our your car but if you were traction rolling your setup was way off.

Aluma

iTrader: (1)

So like, where's the best site to buy a set of cs27 premounts?

dodgeguy

iTrader: (208)

Check out Full Throttle.

http://www.teamfullthrottle.net/index.htm

AdrianM

iTrader: (4)

www.speedtechrc.com
www.sheldonshobbies.com
www.racing-cars.com

If you Google Take Off CS27 you will see lots of on line stores.

quantum

no offense taken. i race only rubber touring since '99, not exactly new to rubber, but no expert either! perhaps "disappointed" was not the right word. please let me clarify that it is in no way directed at your rationale, it is my resignation to the fact that i will have to spend a lot more money.

though i did not race at the iic last year, i spoke with martin crisp (who won the 19t a-main rubber class, and placed 4th in mod rubber a-main) and it was he who reported high traction. from my experience, his setups are pretty reliable. i certainly appreciate the feedback you have received from paul and do not discount it.

i have participated in other "big" ozite carpet races using different types of control tires and the ones where the tire is only good for a couple runs end up costing the drivers the most. when the cs27 has been the tire used it was great because, as you have mentioned, it is a long wearing, consistent tire. martin was able to find very high grip with it and achieve excellent results. from my own experience, achieving the right balance in setup (that you have described) is important to achieve between too stiff a setup that causes the tires to dig and cause roll, and too soft that you lose corner speed, or roll. the cs27 tire has been better than the cs22 in this scenario (but the traction compound being used plays a significant role as well).

all said, i've only used the rp tire once, and you have more experience than i do - i don't oppose your recommendation, but defer to your expertise. (i do plan to be at the iic this year and i just hope i do not end up having to buy one set of tires for every run!)

AdrianM

iTrader: (4)

The RP24 or 30's should yield at least 2-3 fast mod runs on carpet before falling off lap time wise. After that the car will get too stuck and slow down a little. The same think happens with Sorex and Pit tires.

Smoking motor..

A freind mention to me that the takeoff rim are not molded true on the preglues because they changed the plastic the rims are made out of.

AdrianM

iTrader: (4)

At our request Take Off changes the rim material from ABS to High Impact Nylon. The new rim is made from a new mold that was resized to take into account the greater shrinkage of nylon while cooling. We have measured the new rims and dimensionally they are identical to the old ABS rim. The are just as round and straight as the old rim.

We had the material changed due to complaints of ABS rims cracking during crashes. You can beat the new rims with a hammer and they wont break.

The nylon rims are also 1-2/10ths per lap faster than the old rims

Smoking motor..

doh! got it wrong he said they were to soft now and making the tyres over heat; note we're in the uk. So using cs -22 is normally what we run as it is quite mild here for the summer.

AdrianM

iTrader: (4)

Thats quite possible. 22's are pretty easy to overheat. In Florida during the winter we use 27's and a more agressive traction compound instead of 22's. We only run 22's on cool nights or when it really cold.

You might want to try 27's and a more harsh traction compound than Tire Tweak.

TRF415boy

27s are half a second slower than 22s round here and additives like the ones from paragon or corally TC3 aren't allowed even outdoors. Remember a hot day here is 25°C, most of the top drivers were using CS22s last year (not preglued though) in any conditions they were the best. Problem with 22s is you only get 2 very good runs, then a 3rd decent run and then they're poo. The older they get the looser the rear end of the car aswell.

geeunit1014

iTrader: (14)

just out of curiosity, does the new rim material stay glued any better? it seems like some of the cs-27's come unglued fairly easily

AdrianM

iTrader: (4)

Generally if there is a problem is not ungluing but rather incomplete penetration of the glue (only a bit oif the outside edge gets glued). When you run a tires like that it can come apart. If you tug on the side walls of the tire before running it you will discover any problem 100% of the time and be able to fix it with a drop of glue.

I only check tires at really big race like Nationals and the Reedy Race. At club races I don't bother and in 4 years of running premounts I have only had 2 bad glue jobs.

As to the new rims...there is no diffrnece in the gluing. Over all Take Off does a really good job seeing as an average tire order for Schumacher USA is ~3000 4pks of tires (Thats 12,000 tires or 24,000 applications of glue). Given the numbers of tires coming in (huge) and the frequency of gluing issues (fairly rare) I think thay are doing a great job.

I used to see a lot more blowout when people glued thier own tires.

Aluma

iTrader: (1)

man Adrian, you've been a great help. Thank you.

Still Bill

iTrader: (16)

Nice posts Adrian. Very interesting string with your input.

Thanks.

Bill