4LikesTeam Durango DETC410
04-23-2014, 12:31 PM
#586
* Fully compress the shaft into the shock body (with the shock end on as Rosko mentioned) and hold the shaft fully compressed into the shock body. At this point you can loosen the bleeder screw on the shock cap until the remaining oil bleeds out. Once all remaining oil has escaped replace and fully tighten the bleeder screw back into the shock cap then release shock shaft. This will achieve very little rebound if any at all.
thanks for all your helping advises guys.
My Problem is that there is no oil bleeding out of the bleeding hole. Help me if I`getting something wrong but when I think about it, I start to wonder how there ever can get oil out of these holes when the bladder is installed. Would excess oil pass the bladder?
I got it work with about ~20% rebound, but now when fully extend the shaft it`s soaking back into the shock body about ~20%, too.
Isn`t this a sign for not enough oil in the shock, other hand rebound for too much oil?
These shocks are fkn with me.......
My Problem is that there is no oil bleeding out of the bleeding hole. Help me if I`getting something wrong but when I think about it, I start to wonder how there ever can get oil out of these holes when the bladder is installed. Would excess oil pass the bladder?
I got it work with about ~20% rebound, but now when fully extend the shaft it`s soaking back into the shock body about ~20%, too.
Isn`t this a sign for not enough oil in the shock, other hand rebound for too much oil?
These shocks are fkn with me.......
Do a normal bleed procedure, but when you push the shock rod up as you bleed them, try it with the spring holder in place on the bottom (no spring, just the locator) as your shocks will never go farther than that. This should keep the top of the piston from effecting the bladder as you do the bleed.
04-23-2014, 12:44 PM
#587
Here is a video Jiles did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sliCxsIZ3v4&sns=em. It takes practice to properly "pinch" the bladder when bleeding. Lutzinator.com http://youtu.be/o5MR4MxTsdw also has a great video of bleeding a 1/8th scale shock with bladder, same concept and very helpful.
Dont buy tamiya shocks, these are just fine as Chris mentioned! ...
Dont buy tamiya shocks, these are just fine as Chris mentioned! ...
04-23-2014, 12:53 PM
#588
hi ^ can you find the post where I told the awesomatrix guys to run trf shocks, I want a good laugh as well, coz I am sure it would handle better with trf shocks,lol. the only other shocks that are really good are the new xray t4 shocks, durango should have just copied either, they copied the arms exactly from tamiya, so why not the shocks, maybe a v2 will have the upgrades
04-23-2014, 01:17 PM
#589
Kit shocks are great.. I built mine just fine and they are smooth, as long as you take the time to make sure they are built correctly they should service you well. Yes, the pistons are off a tree, so additional work with an xacto knife and fine grit sand paper may be needed to get rid of flash. Same goes for the lower inserts.
And please take this battle to PM and stay on topic.
And please take this battle to PM and stay on topic.
04-23-2014, 01:43 PM
#590
Tech Rookie
I wont buy Tamiya shocks... why would I do that? My questions weren`t about the quality of the shocks only to get them build the right way, so no need to get other shocks.
Thanks again for your useful answers. The springholder part helped me to get my shocks perfectly done.
Thank you guys!
Thanks again for your useful answers. The springholder part helped me to get my shocks perfectly done.
Thank you guys!
04-23-2014, 03:43 PM
#591
hi ^ can you find the post where I told the awesomatrix guys to run trf shocks, I want a good laugh as well, coz I am sure it would handle better with trf shocks,lol. the only other shocks that are really good are the new xray t4 shocks, durango should have just copied either, they copied the arms exactly from tamiya, so why not the shocks, maybe a v2 will have the upgrades
04-23-2014, 07:18 PM
#592
I wont buy Tamiya shocks... why would I do that? My questions weren`t about the quality of the shocks only to get them build the right way, so no need to get other shocks.
Thanks again for your useful answers. The springholder part helped me to get my shocks perfectly done.
Thank you guys!
Thanks again for your useful answers. The springholder part helped me to get my shocks perfectly done.
Thank you guys!
No offence, but this is the "Team Durango DETC410" thread, not the "build a car and put as many Tamiya parts on that i can and tell everybody about it" thread. This car isnt like the old Corally Phi '09 where you HAD to put a Tamiya suspension on for it to work. The car works as is out of the box. If every post you make here is gonna be "I put (insert Tamyia part here) on and the car worked sooo much better" please start posting in the Tamiya thread unless you are going to give WAY more feedback on why you X part in the car and what it did to make the car so much better. Id much rather see what guys are doing to make the car better out of the box instead of being told to buy half of a 418 and put it on the car with no reasoning.
04-24-2014, 12:41 AM
#594
Hello all. Here is a little tip to tuning these shocks.
(When using bladder shock)
When aiming for zero rebound build them as follows.
Fill with oil and leave for air bubbles to go
Push the shock shaft all the way up
'Roll' the bladder onto the top as said earlier (allowing oil to be displaced by the bladder)
Fit the top cap WITHOUT the bleed/vent screw
With the shaft fully compressed then install the bleed screw
This should remove the trapped air behind the bladder.
A simple way to the add some rebound (can be done with the shocks on the car)
Remove the bleed/vent screw.
Fully extend the shock shaft
Re install the bleed/vent screw
This will increase the volume of air behind the bladder
The air behind the bladder (and therefore rebound) can be 'set' this way pretty quickly and easily.
I really believe that we do have the best and also most tuneable shocks available right now. Take the time to learn how they work to get yourself an advantage on the track.
We can have bladder or emulation shocks without the need to change parts
We have multiple hardness o-rings
Option to run 1 or 2 o-rings (1 spacer from the piston parts tree replaces 1 o-ring and separator spacer)
When using bladder you can leave out the vent screw to have a vented shock cap and tune with either foam or o-rings above the bladder.
Hope that helps
(When using bladder shock)
When aiming for zero rebound build them as follows.
Fill with oil and leave for air bubbles to go
Push the shock shaft all the way up
'Roll' the bladder onto the top as said earlier (allowing oil to be displaced by the bladder)
Fit the top cap WITHOUT the bleed/vent screw
With the shaft fully compressed then install the bleed screw
This should remove the trapped air behind the bladder.
A simple way to the add some rebound (can be done with the shocks on the car)
Remove the bleed/vent screw.
Fully extend the shock shaft
Re install the bleed/vent screw
This will increase the volume of air behind the bladder
The air behind the bladder (and therefore rebound) can be 'set' this way pretty quickly and easily.
I really believe that we do have the best and also most tuneable shocks available right now. Take the time to learn how they work to get yourself an advantage on the track.
We can have bladder or emulation shocks without the need to change parts
We have multiple hardness o-rings
Option to run 1 or 2 o-rings (1 spacer from the piston parts tree replaces 1 o-ring and separator spacer)
When using bladder you can leave out the vent screw to have a vented shock cap and tune with either foam or o-rings above the bladder.
Hope that helps
great post - thanks. Can you pls elaborate on which track conditions you think rebound makes sense vs. those where it doesn't? Thanks!
Paul
04-24-2014, 01:12 AM
#595
Hi Lonestar,
Elliott Harper would be best commenting on when and where you should be using rebound and in what conditions.
I can only help you guys with technical/mechanical build fit and function advice.
I've spent a lot of time working on this car to ensure that part fitment and build it spot on, but Elliott is the one that races and tests the most.
Elliott Harper would be best commenting on when and where you should be using rebound and in what conditions.
I can only help you guys with technical/mechanical build fit and function advice.
I've spent a lot of time working on this car to ensure that part fitment and build it spot on, but Elliott is the one that races and tests the most.
04-24-2014, 01:59 AM
#596
Tech Apprentice
i absolutely love my car BUT i have two main issues that i dont like!!!
1- I have raced 2 meetings with the car so far(1 indoor carpet and 1 outdoor ashphalt( and i have broken 3 front wishbones. I am an adequate driver that gets round pretty well with the odd mistake here and there, but before this car i have had 2 xrays, 2 bd7`s and an ARC in the last 2 1/2 years and with them 5 cars added together i think 98% i only broke 1 on the bd7. Never broke an xray plastic or graphite one and never broke an ARC on either. I think these durango ones are poo, i really do.
2- secondly, this is not a huge issue but it really pi$$es me off. The car from brand new has more slop and play in every ball end than i have ever expierienced before. The car from brand new unused on my bench has more play than my yokomo and xray that are 2 years old with original ball ends on.
On my gauges its completely random to the reading i get on toe out lol
I have even tried lots of different combinations with other brand balls and ball ends but cannot find anything that fits the durango ball properly or ball studs that are the same height/dimensions as the durang
rant over i suppose but mor than the play in the car, i hope they release some v2 wishbones or some graph ones
1- I have raced 2 meetings with the car so far(1 indoor carpet and 1 outdoor ashphalt( and i have broken 3 front wishbones. I am an adequate driver that gets round pretty well with the odd mistake here and there, but before this car i have had 2 xrays, 2 bd7`s and an ARC in the last 2 1/2 years and with them 5 cars added together i think 98% i only broke 1 on the bd7. Never broke an xray plastic or graphite one and never broke an ARC on either. I think these durango ones are poo, i really do.
2- secondly, this is not a huge issue but it really pi$$es me off. The car from brand new has more slop and play in every ball end than i have ever expierienced before. The car from brand new unused on my bench has more play than my yokomo and xray that are 2 years old with original ball ends on.
On my gauges its completely random to the reading i get on toe out lol
I have even tried lots of different combinations with other brand balls and ball ends but cannot find anything that fits the durango ball properly or ball studs that are the same height/dimensions as the durang
rant over i suppose but mor than the play in the car, i hope they release some v2 wishbones or some graph ones
04-24-2014, 02:09 AM
#597
Tech Apprentice
ALSO IMO ----- i have had 2 sets of trf shocks and i think that yes they build nice and rebound is easy to dial in or out BUT they need rebuilding allllllllllll the time, they let air in all the time. I think all shocks now are pretty good, xray bladders swell so thay are hard to get caps on, trf ones let air in, serpent ones havea weird foam thingy that soaks up the oil, i found the yokomo shocks with orings in were prob my fav so far
WTF would we want to put blue trf shocks that are about a 7 year old design on our nice new detc
Id hazard a guess that elliott could comment on the two shocks as he was also a worlds trf driver for a few years
WTF would we want to put blue trf shocks that are about a 7 year old design on our nice new detc
Id hazard a guess that elliott could comment on the two shocks as he was also a worlds trf driver for a few years
04-24-2014, 06:58 AM
#598
I am just giving my opinion, its a free forum, I replaced a lot of the parts, because
1)the plastic is garbage, it breakes easily, not just me read the thread
2)the shocks are useless, mine leaked, and the djc ball kept breaking without a hit
3)I have had numerous pm,s from people who have this car, for the part numbers for the tamiya parts, so its not me alone, who is doing so, many others have, they are not posting it as I am, its funny one of the pm,s I was even told they aqre pm,ing so they don,t get flamed, I see why.
I am not the best driver, but had a durable car that can be run without it breaking, that is the reason I changed the parts, also its really hard getting the durango parts here. but not to worry I sold my last car so now I don,t have any durango,s left, for those who I helped making a durable car you are welcome, and for those who were offended that I helped sorry
1)the plastic is garbage, it breakes easily, not just me read the thread
2)the shocks are useless, mine leaked, and the djc ball kept breaking without a hit
3)I have had numerous pm,s from people who have this car, for the part numbers for the tamiya parts, so its not me alone, who is doing so, many others have, they are not posting it as I am, its funny one of the pm,s I was even told they aqre pm,ing so they don,t get flamed, I see why.
I am not the best driver, but had a durable car that can be run without it breaking, that is the reason I changed the parts, also its really hard getting the durango parts here. but not to worry I sold my last car so now I don,t have any durango,s left, for those who I helped making a durable car you are welcome, and for those who were offended that I helped sorry
04-24-2014, 07:27 AM
#599
So to keep this thread on topic, here are some pictures of my build so far.
My first impressions of the car are that the fit and finish are very nice on the DETC410. I have sanded and sealed all the edges, and everything is very free from any binding so far. Looking at the plastics I don't think they are as bad as everyone is making them out to be. The feel and look of the plastic is very nice, but I would rate it right under the Xray plastic. lets not forget the kit is $130 cheaper, so I am very happy with the kit and impressed what I have gotten for the price point!
My first impressions of the car are that the fit and finish are very nice on the DETC410. I have sanded and sealed all the edges, and everything is very free from any binding so far. Looking at the plastics I don't think they are as bad as everyone is making them out to be. The feel and look of the plastic is very nice, but I would rate it right under the Xray plastic. lets not forget the kit is $130 cheaper, so I am very happy with the kit and impressed what I have gotten for the price point!
04-24-2014, 09:56 AM
#600
TD330521 Option
I believe I may have found another viable option for the steering knuckle and rear hub until the TD parts are back in-stock.
During a "dry build", it appears that as an option, we will be able to also use HB68796 from the TCX for both the knuckle and rear hub. The stock 5x10x4 bearing will have to be changed to a 5x10x3 (AE#91156) and approximately 1mm of shim added above and below the HB steering knuckle in the TD castor block.
We will loose an ackerman position on the steering as well as a camber link position in the rear.
There will also be a loss of steering throw with the HB part
The parts are in-stock for GP Dealers and at Tower.
The second variation is with TC6.1 #31360. Once again, the rear bearing has to be changed to AE #91156. You will have to have 1mm on the bottom side of the knuckle and use the right side on the left and vice versa. This knuckle will closely replicate the furthest outward and inward holes on the stock TD part and have the closest amount of steering throw.
I hope this helps you guys if the need should occur.
During a "dry build", it appears that as an option, we will be able to also use HB68796 from the TCX for both the knuckle and rear hub. The stock 5x10x4 bearing will have to be changed to a 5x10x3 (AE#91156) and approximately 1mm of shim added above and below the HB steering knuckle in the TD castor block.
We will loose an ackerman position on the steering as well as a camber link position in the rear.
There will also be a loss of steering throw with the HB part
The parts are in-stock for GP Dealers and at Tower.
The second variation is with TC6.1 #31360. Once again, the rear bearing has to be changed to AE #91156. You will have to have 1mm on the bottom side of the knuckle and use the right side on the left and vice versa. This knuckle will closely replicate the furthest outward and inward holes on the stock TD part and have the closest amount of steering throw.
I hope this helps you guys if the need should occur.
Last edited by ercwhtsd; 04-24-2014 at 12:01 PM. Reason: added info