CEO Mods. vs EB Mods
05-18-2008, 09:47 PM
#46
You guys all hit on good points with every modder. Here my view on things. Porting is an art, it is meant to do by hand and yes, every motor should come out the same if you intentially do it the same. I mod every motor different for specific reasons based on what the customer wants. Every person has a different driving style, track surface, vehicle application and intended purpose with a motor so in theory, most engines need to be different to suit those specific needs. Having a machine shop to reproduce the same mods over and over is great if everyone wanted the same thing. It does add the consistency but unfortunately you are limited to the types of cuts that can be made not to mention the time and programming.
I used to design motors for Factory Polaris and I also was a machinist for years and I casted, machined, ported and dynoed more motors than I can shake a stick at and what we found out was you can certainly make good numbers with just a rough casted and machined cylinder but there will always be hidden secrets in an engine you simply cannot get to without using the proper hand tools. Every engine manufacturer is always looking to refine and better their product and their engine designs are getting better with every production model so you may see a company like EB who uses calibrated CAD programed machinery to alter the engines design go back to modding by hand due to the fact that engine manufactures will soon be making very similar cuts on their stock motors so an EB cnc modded engine may or may not become absolete due to the fact the cuts they make now will soon come from the factory making their performance increase percentage go way down unless they come up with new ideas.
Look at the cranks from yester year. Most came as solid pork chop style crank and companies like RB, EB, JP etc. who's bread and butter was to flute and edge the crank was a huge gain for years and now most engines come from the factory fluted and edged so their performance percentage increase was severly diminished and so new ideas needed to be introduced to stay ahead of the game.
From my experience, modications that are done properly by hand will certainly give the motor different characteristics than a machined motor. Motors that can be rounded and have the ports shaped will tend to have smoother power delivery with a broader powerband as opposed to a similar motor done on a mill. A milled motor can still make similar power but tend to do it in a surgy, smaller banded way just for the simple fact that the port shapes cannot be rounded and shaped to give it that characteristic unless its done by hand. Not saying a machined motor can't be good but a hand ground motor will certainly have it owns personality to suit the driver.
I always used this as food for thought. Would you get a tatoo from a tatoo artist or cnc machine? Would you want the same tatoo as everyone else or get one that tells a different story?
These are my opinions so not everyone will agree but if you are up to date with industry's forward movement, some of what I said will make sense.
I used to design motors for Factory Polaris and I also was a machinist for years and I casted, machined, ported and dynoed more motors than I can shake a stick at and what we found out was you can certainly make good numbers with just a rough casted and machined cylinder but there will always be hidden secrets in an engine you simply cannot get to without using the proper hand tools. Every engine manufacturer is always looking to refine and better their product and their engine designs are getting better with every production model so you may see a company like EB who uses calibrated CAD programed machinery to alter the engines design go back to modding by hand due to the fact that engine manufactures will soon be making very similar cuts on their stock motors so an EB cnc modded engine may or may not become absolete due to the fact the cuts they make now will soon come from the factory making their performance increase percentage go way down unless they come up with new ideas.
Look at the cranks from yester year. Most came as solid pork chop style crank and companies like RB, EB, JP etc. who's bread and butter was to flute and edge the crank was a huge gain for years and now most engines come from the factory fluted and edged so their performance percentage increase was severly diminished and so new ideas needed to be introduced to stay ahead of the game.
From my experience, modications that are done properly by hand will certainly give the motor different characteristics than a machined motor. Motors that can be rounded and have the ports shaped will tend to have smoother power delivery with a broader powerband as opposed to a similar motor done on a mill. A milled motor can still make similar power but tend to do it in a surgy, smaller banded way just for the simple fact that the port shapes cannot be rounded and shaped to give it that characteristic unless its done by hand. Not saying a machined motor can't be good but a hand ground motor will certainly have it owns personality to suit the driver.
I always used this as food for thought. Would you get a tatoo from a tatoo artist or cnc machine? Would you want the same tatoo as everyone else or get one that tells a different story?
These are my opinions so not everyone will agree but if you are up to date with industry's forward movement, some of what I said will make sense.
05-18-2008, 10:21 PM
#47
Ceo vs EB
It was my first time try out the new CEO mods .21 VSPEC today after running EB mod in last few races. I am impressed with the profmance, but I am not impressed with the motor not lasting long. And tuning was pain in the ass than EB mod. The tempature keep changing every 5 laps.. it ran 255 then i went fatter, it ran 240, i went fatter on bottom end, it ran 250.. so then I deiced to shut them all the way in and do 3 half on low end, 2.25 on top end. It ran 212 for first two laps, but when you slam on throttle, it seems to be choking on.. so i went lean, it went back up to 245. Even though I think there is an leak on the carberator, going to rebuild it and find out next time.
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