New Efra rules
12-10-2012, 04:09 AM
#436
12-11-2012, 01:07 PM
#437
tire saucing tsk. tsk.tsk...
Tire saucing is not a complex issue and has been around for decades and is nothing new. It has only resurfaced and has caused a stir. In my mind, the idea of controlling an almost seemingly impossible thing like saucing, makes no sense at all. Controlling the situation by handing out tires I also feel falls short of "controlling" this issue and will in its own way complicate the matter further.
I think what seems hard to accept is that there are some aspects of motor racing that simply cannot be controlled. If the governing bodies begin with tires, where will it end? If you really feel strongly about controlling anything of significance consider the possibilities if engines were handout items at every race meet. The point I am making is that there are few things to truly govern before the rules become over bearing and in the end will cost more in dollars to the average racer. At which point the true supporters, the club racers and non sponsored may begin to lose interest.
There is a video where Robert Piesche was asked about saucing tires and he said he did not care for it because it adds to the work and preparation. I race on road 1/8 and I was resistant to this practice myself even though I have been doing for several years. I did not want to buy these expensive tools for saucing so i simply made my own vacuum chamber which works and cost me $50.00. I also did not want to use any hazardous chemicals so i found some rather simple alternatives that surprisingly actually worked as well and i have to say better than the petro chemical additives.
I think this issue is not truly worth all the energy and effort that is being expended on it. I think there are more important problems to work out like how to bring new blood into the nitro on road section of model car racing. And before you say " this saucing issue may be to difficult to deal with and limit ones interest " I would consider that a newby will be faced with much more relevant challenges before he or she will be ready to deal with an issue as simple as tire saucing.
So, any ideas how we can bring new blood into the sport?
I think what seems hard to accept is that there are some aspects of motor racing that simply cannot be controlled. If the governing bodies begin with tires, where will it end? If you really feel strongly about controlling anything of significance consider the possibilities if engines were handout items at every race meet. The point I am making is that there are few things to truly govern before the rules become over bearing and in the end will cost more in dollars to the average racer. At which point the true supporters, the club racers and non sponsored may begin to lose interest.
There is a video where Robert Piesche was asked about saucing tires and he said he did not care for it because it adds to the work and preparation. I race on road 1/8 and I was resistant to this practice myself even though I have been doing for several years. I did not want to buy these expensive tools for saucing so i simply made my own vacuum chamber which works and cost me $50.00. I also did not want to use any hazardous chemicals so i found some rather simple alternatives that surprisingly actually worked as well and i have to say better than the petro chemical additives.
I think this issue is not truly worth all the energy and effort that is being expended on it. I think there are more important problems to work out like how to bring new blood into the nitro on road section of model car racing. And before you say " this saucing issue may be to difficult to deal with and limit ones interest " I would consider that a newby will be faced with much more relevant challenges before he or she will be ready to deal with an issue as simple as tire saucing.
So, any ideas how we can bring new blood into the sport?
12-11-2012, 01:20 PM
#438
[QUOTE=DS Motorsport;11477174]I agree, there should've been a representative, but it's not something I've anything to say about.
To be honest the whole voting process used by Efra is rubbish. The decisions are made during the friday night dinner before the actual meeting. The actual meeting is just an act.
The whole voting process should be changed, the drivers should be able to vote directly. Send every driver who has an efra license a login code so they could login to an efra site and vote on all the new proposals. This is the only way you are sure you get the rules the actual drivers want. Currently the voting is done by a bunch of old guys, most of them don't even race themselves, who have a completely different view compared to the actual drivers.
I know the Dutch 1/8 committee asks their drivers opinion on the proposals and takes a stance the majority of the drivers agree on. However I think they are one of the very few who use this procedure.
If this is truly the case, the voting issue is worth all the energy that is being given to the saucing "problem". In fact if the energy given to the saucing problem was being directed at the voting issue which in my mind is much much more important, would there even be a discussion about something as benign as saucing?
In my mind your voting rights, your voice are what you all should be fighting for, not "tire sauce".
I live in the US and if you wonder why I might take an interest in what is going on in Europe it is because the on road nitro scene is much bigger and stronger than it is here in the US. What happens in EFRA in respect to 1/8 on road can have an impact here in the states. So it is important to me that those who race have a voice in how your hard earned money will be spent. Because in the end the rules that are written by those at the top will determine and impact OUR racing and ultimately how we spend our money.
To be honest the whole voting process used by Efra is rubbish. The decisions are made during the friday night dinner before the actual meeting. The actual meeting is just an act.
The whole voting process should be changed, the drivers should be able to vote directly. Send every driver who has an efra license a login code so they could login to an efra site and vote on all the new proposals. This is the only way you are sure you get the rules the actual drivers want. Currently the voting is done by a bunch of old guys, most of them don't even race themselves, who have a completely different view compared to the actual drivers.
I know the Dutch 1/8 committee asks their drivers opinion on the proposals and takes a stance the majority of the drivers agree on. However I think they are one of the very few who use this procedure.
If this is truly the case, the voting issue is worth all the energy that is being given to the saucing "problem". In fact if the energy given to the saucing problem was being directed at the voting issue which in my mind is much much more important, would there even be a discussion about something as benign as saucing?
In my mind your voting rights, your voice are what you all should be fighting for, not "tire sauce".
I live in the US and if you wonder why I might take an interest in what is going on in Europe it is because the on road nitro scene is much bigger and stronger than it is here in the US. What happens in EFRA in respect to 1/8 on road can have an impact here in the states. So it is important to me that those who race have a voice in how your hard earned money will be spent. Because in the end the rules that are written by those at the top will determine and impact OUR racing and ultimately how we spend our money.
Last edited by Danny A.; 12-11-2012 at 02:17 PM.
05-27-2013, 12:53 PM
#439
http://www.redrc.net/2013/05/hipex-l...ologated-pipe/
This is the result of Hipex work on the LowNoise pipe... the new 2673
This is the result of Hipex work on the LowNoise pipe... the new 2673
05-27-2013, 01:10 PM
#440
http://www.redrc.net/2013/05/hipex-l...ologated-pipe/
This is the result of Hipex work on the LowNoise pipe... the new 2673
This is the result of Hipex work on the LowNoise pipe... the new 2673
Hipex have done a very good job.The pipe is also sturdy dosn`t dent that easy and the stinger is short.
05-28-2013, 12:21 AM
#441
Hello all,
we just returned from the 8th scale Euro B in Austria which was the first EFRA event using hand out tires.
It was a huge success. 99% of all the racers simply loved it.
Absolutely no worries about the tires.
You got you set of Matrix at the staging area, put them on the car and go racing.
Prior to the race you didn't have to worry about what tires would work on that track and you didn't have to buy all kinds of shores to be prepared.
The results in all free pratice sessions, qualifying and the finals (some of them were run in the rain) were as close as we have never seen it before.
No bad feelings in the pits the entire week. No finger pointing, no suspision.
No tire truing!!!
Everybody was more than happy. Even one of the additive manufacturers from Italy had to admit that this worked great.
In our opinion, control tires are the way to go.
Tire sauce sucks. It's unessecary work and money that nobody needs.
we just returned from the 8th scale Euro B in Austria which was the first EFRA event using hand out tires.
It was a huge success. 99% of all the racers simply loved it.
Absolutely no worries about the tires.
You got you set of Matrix at the staging area, put them on the car and go racing.
Prior to the race you didn't have to worry about what tires would work on that track and you didn't have to buy all kinds of shores to be prepared.
The results in all free pratice sessions, qualifying and the finals (some of them were run in the rain) were as close as we have never seen it before.
No bad feelings in the pits the entire week. No finger pointing, no suspision.
No tire truing!!!
Everybody was more than happy. Even one of the additive manufacturers from Italy had to admit that this worked great.
In our opinion, control tires are the way to go.
Tire sauce sucks. It's unessecary work and money that nobody needs.
05-28-2013, 12:24 AM
#442
i`m racing it in the nationals in holland, and the pipe is the bomb. Its high reving and uses little fuel. its worth a try regardless of the noise reduction the pipe is fast. Hipex have done a very good job.
The pipe is also sturdy dosn`t dent that easy and the stinger is short.
Hipex have done a very good job.The pipe is also sturdy dosn`t dent that easy and the stinger is short.
Is there a video anywhere with that pipe to hear the sound?
I think this is a great development from Hipex.
Even their regular 2069 on an 8th scale care is so much quieter than the old pipes...
05-28-2013, 01:24 AM
#443
On the other hands control tires sucks for the organisation and clubs. It does mean to get the right amount of tires on time and extra people to hand them out and keep control of unwanted tires.
For smaller organisations with no real distributors within your country and getting more difficulties to get people in the organisation that will give problems.....
BIG!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSTeG510awA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adtxlag8Oo4
It is a needed exhaust on the MACH track and the next clubrace some others will drive with it, I have bought one also....
For smaller organisations with no real distributors within your country and getting more difficulties to get people in the organisation that will give problems.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSTeG510awA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adtxlag8Oo4
It is a needed exhaust on the MACH track and the next clubrace some others will drive with it, I have bought one also....
05-28-2013, 01:27 AM
#444
Tech Addict
iTrader: (1)
Hello all,
we just returned from the 8th scale Euro B in Austria which was the first EFRA event using hand out tires.
It was a huge success. 99% of all the racers simply loved it.
Absolutely no worries about the tires.
You got you set of Matrix at the staging area, put them on the car and go racing.
Prior to the race you didn't have to worry about what tires would work on that track and you didn't have to buy all kinds of shores to be prepared.
The results in all free pratice sessions, qualifying and the finals (some of them were run in the rain) were as close as we have never seen it before.
No bad feelings in the pits the entire week. No finger pointing, no suspision.
No tire truing!!!
Everybody was more than happy. Even one of the additive manufacturers from Italy had to admit that this worked great.
In our opinion, control tires are the way to go.
Tire sauce sucks. It's unessecary work and money that nobody needs.
we just returned from the 8th scale Euro B in Austria which was the first EFRA event using hand out tires.
It was a huge success. 99% of all the racers simply loved it.
Absolutely no worries about the tires.
You got you set of Matrix at the staging area, put them on the car and go racing.
Prior to the race you didn't have to worry about what tires would work on that track and you didn't have to buy all kinds of shores to be prepared.
The results in all free pratice sessions, qualifying and the finals (some of them were run in the rain) were as close as we have never seen it before.
No bad feelings in the pits the entire week. No finger pointing, no suspision.
No tire truing!!!
Everybody was more than happy. Even one of the additive manufacturers from Italy had to admit that this worked great.
In our opinion, control tires are the way to go.
Tire sauce sucks. It's unessecary work and money that nobody needs.
Is the saucing allowed?
For the control tires, what shore was allowed? All types of shore or one type only? For front? For rear?
05-28-2013, 01:40 AM
#445
Hello all,
we just returned from the 8th scale Euro B in Austria which was the first EFRA event using hand out tires.
It was a huge success. 99% of all the racers simply loved it.
Absolutely no worries about the tires.
You got you set of Matrix at the staging area, put them on the car and go racing.
Prior to the race you didn't have to worry about what tires would work on that track and you didn't have to buy all kinds of shores to be prepared.
The results in all free pratice sessions, qualifying and the finals (some of them were run in the rain) were as close as we have never seen it before.
No bad feelings in the pits the entire week. No finger pointing, no suspision.
No tire truing!!!
Everybody was more than happy. Even one of the additive manufacturers from Italy had to admit that this worked great.
In our opinion, control tires are the way to go.
Tire sauce sucks. It's unessecary work and money that nobody needs.
we just returned from the 8th scale Euro B in Austria which was the first EFRA event using hand out tires.
It was a huge success. 99% of all the racers simply loved it.
Absolutely no worries about the tires.
You got you set of Matrix at the staging area, put them on the car and go racing.
Prior to the race you didn't have to worry about what tires would work on that track and you didn't have to buy all kinds of shores to be prepared.
The results in all free pratice sessions, qualifying and the finals (some of them were run in the rain) were as close as we have never seen it before.
No bad feelings in the pits the entire week. No finger pointing, no suspision.
No tire truing!!!
Everybody was more than happy. Even one of the additive manufacturers from Italy had to admit that this worked great.
In our opinion, control tires are the way to go.
Tire sauce sucks. It's unessecary work and money that nobody needs.
So it looks promising.
05-28-2013, 02:26 AM
#446
The entire exercise of controlled tires is to get this crap out of racing.
You received a set of new tires out of a huge box of tires when you entered the staging area.
They were 32/35 Matrix on standard rims, trued to 69/76mm
They same for everybody.
05-28-2013, 02:32 AM
#447
On the other hands control tires sucks for the organisation and clubs. It does mean to get the right amount of tires on time and extra people to hand them out and keep control of unwanted tires.
For smaller organisations with no real distributors within your country and getting more difficulties to get people in the organisation that will give problems.....
For smaller organisations with no real distributors within your country and getting more difficulties to get people in the organisation that will give problems.....
MAV Aigen is a track owned by one man and he did not have a huge support team.
It was very simple, EFRA ordered the mandatory tires from Matrix and there was ONE person that handed out the tires at the entrance to the pit lane.
Absolutely no big deal.
One or two people desperately ried to find a flaw in the controlled tire situation, but as I said before, 99% of the racers were absolutely happy and the racing was as close as never before.
The ones who tried to spoil it were dealers who tried to get their tires in as control tires and didn't get it.
The other very positive aspect was, that the normal racer got his tires to a very low price, for which he normally would not get them.
Look at the videos on You Tube and listen what the racers are saying:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7myxv-VpmQ
05-28-2013, 03:13 AM
#448
Over here with some clubs it is difficult to get the at least mandatory 3 persons for an organisation with a national, taking an EC as a club you must be sure to get all needed hands. I know for sure not all clubs can comply to the extra people needed.
Regarding tires, with no real distributors nearby we are pretty sure it is not an easy task to get 300 sets of needed tires per race on time. And what if there are no tires delivered? We have thought of this, the only solution is arranging 5 sets of tires per driver per race which makes it 30 sets per driver. A national licence will cost 600 euro, we arrange about 1800 sets of tires at once over the winter and store them to take out 300 sets every national.
Only then we are sure there is enough time to arrange the tires for the whole season.
Let me remind you that even the EFRA had difficulties to make a deal for all 4 EC's and the smeller evints like the 40+ and GP's are not arranged....
Regarding tires, with no real distributors nearby we are pretty sure it is not an easy task to get 300 sets of needed tires per race on time. And what if there are no tires delivered? We have thought of this, the only solution is arranging 5 sets of tires per driver per race which makes it 30 sets per driver. A national licence will cost 600 euro, we arrange about 1800 sets of tires at once over the winter and store them to take out 300 sets every national.
Only then we are sure there is enough time to arrange the tires for the whole season.
Let me remind you that even the EFRA had difficulties to make a deal for all 4 EC's and the smeller evints like the 40+ and GP's are not arranged....
05-28-2013, 05:46 AM
#449
Over here with some clubs it is difficult to get the at least mandatory 3 persons for an organisation with a national, taking an EC as a club you must be sure to get all needed hands. I know for sure not all clubs can comply to the extra people needed.
Sorry, but then a club should not apply for nationals or even Euros!
Regarding tires, with no real distributors nearby we are pretty sure it is not an easy task to get 300 sets of needed tires per race on time. And what if there are no tires delivered? We have thought of this, the only solution is arranging 5 sets of tires per driver per race which makes it 30 sets per driver. A national licence will cost 600 euro, we arrange about 1800 sets of tires at once over the winter and store them to take out 300 sets every national.
Only then we are sure there is enough time to arrange the tires for the whole season.
Matrix sent a dealer from Italy who had all the tires with him and also sold the tires for free practice at the agreed price of €18 per set. He also took the remaining tires back to Matrix.The club had no work or advanced expenses up front whatsoever.
Let me remind you that even the EFRA had difficulties to make a deal for all 4 EC's and the smeller evints like the 40+ and GP's are not arranged.
EFRA did NOT have problems making deals, they just wanted t spread it evenly, so each manufacturer had the chance to get an event
Sorry, but then a club should not apply for nationals or even Euros!
Regarding tires, with no real distributors nearby we are pretty sure it is not an easy task to get 300 sets of needed tires per race on time. And what if there are no tires delivered? We have thought of this, the only solution is arranging 5 sets of tires per driver per race which makes it 30 sets per driver. A national licence will cost 600 euro, we arrange about 1800 sets of tires at once over the winter and store them to take out 300 sets every national.
Only then we are sure there is enough time to arrange the tires for the whole season.
Matrix sent a dealer from Italy who had all the tires with him and also sold the tires for free practice at the agreed price of €18 per set. He also took the remaining tires back to Matrix.The club had no work or advanced expenses up front whatsoever.
Let me remind you that even the EFRA had difficulties to make a deal for all 4 EC's and the smeller evints like the 40+ and GP's are not arranged.
EFRA did NOT have problems making deals, they just wanted t spread it evenly, so each manufacturer had the chance to get an event
05-28-2013, 06:06 AM
#450
There is another problem I think we have to think about, and that is the time schedule.
Current in Holland we have 4 minutes between qualifying heats, in the EC-B they used 7 minutes in Q1 and Q2, but the next day they went to 8 minutes for Q3 and Q4.
So to have enough (and everybody the same amount of) warm-up time, you need these 8 minutes.
We have 3 x 6 Qualifying heats, so we need to find 17 x 4 minutes of extra time.......
In the current set-up, we don't have that possibility.....
Current in Holland we have 4 minutes between qualifying heats, in the EC-B they used 7 minutes in Q1 and Q2, but the next day they went to 8 minutes for Q3 and Q4.
So to have enough (and everybody the same amount of) warm-up time, you need these 8 minutes.
We have 3 x 6 Qualifying heats, so we need to find 17 x 4 minutes of extra time.......
In the current set-up, we don't have that possibility.....