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Old 11-25-2007, 04:06 PM   #511
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Im not saying a kit doesn't have its issues. On my Losi 8, the diffs wallow out pretty darn easy. I change at least one every race day. If I race in a bigger club event or when I have massive amounts of time between rounds, I would then check EVERYTHING on any kit I buy. Many consider me anal about vehicle maintenance. I just do not want to have to buy 3rd party brakes, and keep track of the special parts one may need for a $580 kit. The only hop-up I have on my 8 are the aluminum rear bearing inserts. Also, like I have said, I am in no rush to replace my 8. I have just finished replacing EVERY SINGLE part in the darn thing after 13 gallons. Don't ask why I didn't buy a new kit (smacking head on keyboard) Also, the 8 has treated me very very well with hardly anything broken. It is a VERY solid buggy, not to say the Mugen isn't, however I also do see many of the Mugen guys at our track go through quite a few A-Arms, or the pivot ball ripping out. I've never liked pivot balls from my onroad days either.

Either way, both buggies will wear, and I know most people do not replace parts until broken. I am not like that, I replace any little worn thing. I know the Mugen is a great kit, but I also love how innovative the 8 is, and how it often lands rubber side down in the event of a mistake. Its also quite a bit lighter, and with my C6bb, the thing flat out flies and rockets out of corners. Anyway, I am not here to diss either vehicle, as both are completely amazing vehicles. My choice is to wait and see what the next offering is.
me and my buddy who races an 8 did our winter put away clean up together. my parts wear in my drive line after a whole season was less than his after 2 weekends (he replaced the front drive shaft) and all of his plastic had alot more wear (mine ran a month longer at the begining of the season his ran 2 weekends after i quit for the year) mine still doesnt have pin slop or suspension wiggle not even close and another thing he discovered was his chassis was twisted lol. i have gone through 20 bucks in clutch shoes, 4 in shock ends and 15 in new rear a arms (they werent broken but were slightly tweaked) oh and 4 bucks for a cvd pin i forgot to tighten up lol i went threw a set of shock boots only to go with schock socks as well. the R doesnt really need hop ups to be competitive. i lightened mine but to be honest i cant say it actually made the car faster as to the thing that really matters...the track clock lol. my friend has spent more in center diff cases and drive train parts than i have on any up keep/broken parts and a chassis and all new plastic he has me blown away, 3 sets of clutch shoes, aluminum chassis braces and so forth he has spent more on total cost too. he is faster than me however but he was even more so when he had a prospec lol
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Old 11-25-2007, 05:31 PM   #512
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Oh, I know the R doesn't need anything to be competitive. However, most of the buggy guys that I know that have owned them all also say they like the 8 better, even though it does wear MUCH faster. I do not doubt that. I spend close to $100-200 on parts a month JUST on the 8(even if I don't need it, I love having spares) I didn't come into the forum to argue at all. Each vehicle has its differences, BUT all are incredibly capable racers (Losi, Kyosho, Mugen etc, btw those are the only brands I will probably ever consider buying)

As far as the Losi driveline wear, It is darn fast, especially in the front, but that is to be expected when a cardan joint is angled all the time. Side note: you know these vehicles don't use real CVDs right? There is nothing constant velocity about them.... Why the heck are they called CVDs then?

CVD link
Universal and Double Cardan Joint Link
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Old 11-25-2007, 05:43 PM   #513
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Im excited about the new Thompson Joint. Im curious if someone can make a small enough one for our purposes:
Video of Joint
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:19 PM   #514
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talk about rotating mass lol
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:26 PM   #515
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Can someone answer this:

What is the primary difference between the Prospec Rear Arms and the MBX5R Arms? I have both in front of me, and its looks like where the shock mounts to the arm has more material missing on the X5R arms. Now, is this pretty much for more clearance for the big bores? So if I am not running big bores shocks, no worries?

Trying to decide if I should keep the regular arms till the wear out and run out, or sell them seperate since this is the only part that looks like its not too much difference.
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:35 PM   #516
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Originally Posted by mugenlife View Post
talk about rotating mass lol
With todays ingenious geniuses, I bet it could be made VERY light and quite small, however I don't think even my tiny hands would want to work on it if need be. However, it already sounds like it needs much less maintenance than any previous type of rotating joint. The front center "CVD" in the Losi wears very fast just because of the inherent vibrations with a cardan joint.
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:36 PM   #517
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Oh also, another question I have about the pivot balls: How scuffed up do they get from dirt/grime entering that area? When I was in onroad I had to polish them or buy new ones...I can't imagine what the offroad pivot balls look like after several gallons of use.
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Old 11-25-2007, 10:06 PM   #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Can someone answer this:

What is the primary difference between the Prospec Rear Arms and the MBX5R Arms? I have both in front of me, and its looks like where the shock mounts to the arm has more material missing on the X5R arms. Now, is this pretty much for more clearance for the big bores? So if I am not running big bores shocks, no worries?

Trying to decide if I should keep the regular arms till the wear out and run out, or sell them seperate since this is the only part that looks like its not too much difference.
They removed more material due to the increased up/down travel of the longer MBX5T shocks that are on the 5R. You can use them fine on your 5R. If you limit the droop you probably won't have to touch them. If you run full droop, check to make sure the sock end isn't hitting the arm. If it is, just dremel it out a bit.
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Old 11-25-2007, 10:06 PM   #519
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Thanks for the response Tony, you are always on top of the new ideas.

I am sure everyone else knows this, but what city is the CRCRC race? If funds allowed, I would love to make the trip from Idaho.

Paul
Sorry Paul, it is in Columbus, Ohio.
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Old 11-25-2007, 10:28 PM   #520
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As for electric, they are generally heavier, just by the batteries alone, just to get beyond nitro performance. And its not like you can "pitstop" refuel it! If you could change out batteries, just like a pitstop, you're gonna spend alot of money on batteries. Not sure what the craze is with electric conversions. Seems more expensive IMO.
Running the 1512 NeuMotors and 14.8 volt LiPo packs they are a few ounces heavier. But the torque and Hp exceeds a modded .28 nitro motor. They'll turn up to 60,000 RPM's too.

I think the interest in the electric conversions is that you can now run 1/8th scale cars/trucks that out-perform their nitro counterparts. When I went to the Nitro CRCRC race two years ago the fastest two 1/8th scale buggies were Adam Drake and Ryan Lutz. Only once each did they turn a 17.8 second lap all weekend. The rest of the laps were 18.0 to 18.2 seconds. The 4WD Modified Electric cars the week before were turning low 17 second laps. They are fast, but watching the smaller cars around the track is not as exciting as watching huge 1/8th scale buggies and truggies rip around the track. Most nitro guys are speed and power hungry. If not, then OS Speeds, C6BB's and MRT Ninja's wouldn't be flying off the shelves....LOL I'm pretty confident though that if most Nitro guys watched a brushless 1/8th scale rip past their nitro counterpart like it was standing still or watched one scream down the straight away doing 55mph they'd change their minds real quick. I love the nitro engines and plan to still run them in my MBX5R and MBX5T but this conversion is going to be a lot of fun too .

As for cost, the electric conversion is actually cheaper if starting from scratch. You not only don't need a nitro motor, but you also don't need:

1] motor
2] pipe & header
3] nitro fuel
4] glow plugs
5] clutch shoes/springs/flywheels
6] starter box
7] starter box battery
8] throttle/brake servo
9] glow ignitor
10] air filters
11] Rx Pack

Plus you can sell off your nitro fuel tank, motor mounts, clutch & flywheel kit, steel spur gear, brake pads/rotors/cams, stock air filter, thrott'e & brake linkage and perhaps part or all of your radio tray. The pinions and plastic spur gears are much cheaper than the hardened clutch bells and stock spur gears too.

Other interest is they are easier to maintain, no after-run maintenance and the one brushless motor would probably out-live God knows how many nitro engines. Their isn't a nitro motor made (.21 to .30) that can compete torque or Hp/RPM wise either. You don't have to have a pit guy so that may be appealing to some. No air filter prep. No flameouts means possibly more fun (i know many guys that a tuning issue, bad glow plug, worn/broken clutch/clutch-spring or tired/worn motor just ruined their day). The brushless controller is fully progammable so even though you're not tuning a carb or playing around with pipes/headers, there is still a lot of adjustability and motor/battery/gearing selection that will definitely come in to play to set tuners apart.

Best regards,
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Last edited by TonysScrews; 11-26-2007 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 11-25-2007, 11:44 PM   #521
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Oh also, another question I have about the pivot balls: How scuffed up do they get from dirt/grime entering that area? When I was in onroad I had to polish them or buy new ones...I can't imagine what the offroad pivot balls look like after several gallons of use.
after each week end i clean them off. i run the lota set up that are plastic and so far there are no scuffs in them only part that makes them not look new is the discoloration from the teflon lub spray i use on them. i have 2 gallons or so on the stockers and 4-5 on these

Last edited by mugenlife; 11-25-2007 at 11:54 PM.
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Old 11-26-2007, 06:07 AM   #522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonysScrews View Post
Running the 1512 NeuMotors and 14.8 volt LiPo packs they are a few ounces heavier. But the torque and Hp exceeds a modded .28 nitro motor. They'll turn up to 60,000 RPM's too.

I think the interest in the electric conversions is that you can now run 1/8th scale cars/trucks that out-perform their nitro counterparts. When I went to the Nitro CRCRC race two years ago the fastest two 1/8th scale buggies were Adam Drake and Ryan Lutz. Only once each did they turn a 17.8 second lap all weekend. The rest of the laps were 18.0 to 18.2 seconds. The 4WD Modified Electric cars the week before were turning low 17 second laps. They are fast, but watching the smaller cars around the track is not as exciting as watching huge 1/8th scale buggies and truggies rip around the track. Most nitro guys are speed and power hungry. If not, then OS Speeds, C6BB's and MRT Ninja's wouldn't be flying off the shelves....LOL I'm pretty confident though that if most Nitro guys watched a brushless 1/8th scale rip past their nitro counterpart like it was standing still or watched one scream down the straight away doing 55mph they'd change their minds real quick. I love the nitro engines and plan to still run them in my MBX5R and MBX5T but this conversion is going to be a lot of fun too .

As for cost, the electric conversion is actually cheaper if starting from scratch. You not only don't need a nitro motor, but you also don't need:

1] motor
2] pipe & header
3] nitro fuel
4] glow plugs
5] clutch shoes/springs/flywheels
6] starter box
7] starter box battery
8] throttle/brake servo
9] glow ignitor
10] air filters

Plus you can sell off your nitro fuel tank, motor mounts, clutch & flywheel kit, steel spur gear, brake pads/rotors/cams, stock air filter, thrott'e & brake linkage and perhaps part or all of your radio tray. The pinions and plastic spur gears are much cheaper than the hardened clutch bells and stock spur gears too.

Other interest is they are easier to maintain, no after-run maintenance and the one brushless motor would probably out-live God knows how many nitro engines. Their isn't a nitro motor made (.21 to .30) that can compete torque or Hp/RPM wise either. You don't have to have a pit guy so that may be appealing to some. No air filter prep. No flameouts means possibly more fun (i know many guys that a tuning issue, bad glow plug, worn/broken clutch/clutch-spring or tired/worn motor just ruined their day). The brushless controller is fully progammable so even though you're not tuning a carb or playing around with pipes/headers, there is still a lot of adjustability and motor/battery/gearing selection that will definitely come in to play to set tuners apart.

Best regards,

LiPo packs are not "non" maintainance. They do require a specific charger, you must not allow them to drop below specific voltage PER cell, you must balance the charge and they are unstable if improperly charged or gets hit by another car on the track. If the pack bubbles, its gone! Would hate to see your car go up in flames! Stack up buying more than one GOOD lip pack and the price is through the roof. One pack will not do. Trust me, I own a few electric Helicopters, after a while, electric gets expensive too.
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Old 11-26-2007, 06:44 AM   #523
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rezenclowd3 - There was a problem with the first 5R front arms breaking at the pillowball. They fixed that in June and the newer arms are a lot stronger. In fact I have yet to break the set I have been running since June. I was breaking the older ones every couple of weeks before that change.

If you are as much of a maintenance freak as you say, you will not have leaky diffs. The outdrive orings can wear eventually but keeping them greased up will help a lot. Even if you replace the orings once a month (overkill) you will still not be doing as much as you apparently have to do to your Losi.

You would seriously not consider a car because the only stock part that is only okay is the brakes? Avid brakes cost like $12 for the car. That is pretty much the only non stock part some of the pros use.

I do not understand why you are on the Mugen thread. You seemed to have your mind made up to keep your 8 before you even asked a question.
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Old 11-26-2007, 09:30 AM   #524
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I was on here because I was curious about a couple things about the R. My mind was already made up to keep the Losi, but I also wanted to try something else at the same time. BTW, its not just the brakes that bug me on the R, its also that the inner hinge pins re not captured and the others that I have mentioned. About your comment with the orings, I assume you can buy them separate? I usually change orings and diff seals (with the Losi) after every race anyway as they are cheap, even though I have never really seen a need to. I just like the extra insurance. Same with the shock orings, but if the shock boot tore, a little dirt usually finds its way to the orings...

I know I want a Mugen, but I found the right choice for me is to wait and see whats next. I really do like some of the designs on the Mugen, and like I said before, it handles just like any pro grade buggy should. Who knows, maybe Ill just get the itch and go buy one anyway...
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Old 11-26-2007, 01:17 PM   #525
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Yes they sell the diff o rings in a separate pack. The gaskets that seal between gear and diff case are also available in a pack.
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