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Old 12-08-2016, 01:58 PM   #151
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lol

USVTA
USGT
17.5 TC
Mod TC

Boom...close it close it ....dang it, CLOSE IT!
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:23 PM   #152
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27T brushed went to 13.5T and 19T brushed went to 8.5T.

13.5T brusheless motors ie the Novak had 12.2mm rotors. A number of advancements were made better rotors being the main improvement and the power increased.
13.5T became 17.5T and 8.5T became 10.5T.

Later on 10.5T became 13.5T but 17.5T remained the same.

Locally we run 21.5T, 13.5T and MOD.

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Originally Posted by Brian McGreevy View Post
The point is this: the cars have gotten A LOT faster, but we humans are no more capable at handling speed than we were 10 years ago.
Agree 100%. the cars have gotten a lot faster not just the power plant but every aspect. The biggest changes in recent years have been in corner speed.

With increased corner speed you can run taller gearing and ultimately have a faster car down the straight. But with increased corner speed the skill required to drive the car and the penalty ie damage to the car if you get it wrong also goes up.

IMO for indoor racing we need bodies with less down force to reduce corner speed. The flow on effect will be slower straight line speed and the combination of both will make the cars easier to drive.

Perhaps a 20x10mm wing instead of the current 40x20mm. The wing size is easy to tech and the bodies would be redesigned with less front down force to suit the smaller wing.
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:28 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by DamianW View Post
IMO for indoor racing we need bodies with less down force to reduce corner speed. The flow on effect will be slower straight line speed and the combination of both will make the cars easier to drive.
Harder tires. At the speeds we go, downforce is a fairly small number. Downforce is a multiplier, if the "big number" is much smaller, downforce matters less.
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:57 PM   #154
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That information is false. Most sponsored drivers get the same stuff as anybody else. My lipos are the same ones you can buy over the counter. You can't push a brand to the public if you get special stuff.
very false..i get the off the shelve stuff too..just at a discount & its not a huge discount at all...we don't get nothing special no motors no lipos..its a big misconception about sponsored drivers vs pro drivers..they are not the same
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Old 12-08-2016, 03:10 PM   #155
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Unicorns have been banned by IFMAR
Traded mine for a copper Alpaca. So I'm good.
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Old 12-08-2016, 03:32 PM   #156
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I have been out of the larger scales for more than 25 years. About 12 years ago I spent about 3 grand in a foray back into the hobby. I bought all the most current gear and went to a race and had everything destroyed in the first corner. In my return I hadn't learned that the hobby I had so much fun with in the early 80's had morphed into some ridiculous blood sport that made you pay for being a noob and continued that way until the "group" decided that no matter how much money you had to spend they couldn't run you out. Then they would begin to offer some rudimentary assistance, nothing big but information that gave you a little flicker of light. It didn't take a whole lot of this "entertainment" to realize that I should move on. I haven't driven a 1/10th or 1/12th scale car in anger since then. Even then people were complaining about "factory drivers" coming in and stealing the show or the local hero drivers that no matter how hard you tried you couldn't quite catch let alone beat not to mention the general high cost and big(for the time) speeds and trying to calm things down.

Here we are several years later and all of the same things are being crabbed about. Like it always is, everybody wants to take something to "help" the issues but nobody seems to want to give anything. There is another thread here that I follow about what to do to increase participation and attract new competitors. Their concerns and complaints are the same as yours at the root of it as well as the causes for it.

Just a thought here but at the club level at least in an attempt to preserve every bodies equipment and at the same time draw in some new people, why not let everybody run what they want regardless of chassis, tire, motor, battery or the vehicle you drove to the event and just establish a minimum lap time. Anything under the minimum won't count. Let the entire group run a controlled practice to establish their best to set the minimum. Kind of like the "index of performance" that was used in International racing(during the 50's) It won't take long for everybody to back up to the minimum and stay just over it. The noob's won't feel like they have been the pivot man at the circle jerk and everybody else will finish in exactly the same position they would have if things were done as before. The one thing that can't be changed in all of this is the "stars" will always be the hero's and the rest of the field will follow albeit a little closer to the front.

Think about it.

Nuff said.
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Old 12-08-2016, 03:50 PM   #157
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break out classes....
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Old 12-08-2016, 03:51 PM   #158
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Instead of penalizing achievement through breakout racing, why not teach newbies where the throttle EPA % adjustment is on their radio? If someone wants to start in 17.5TC, fine. But have them dial it back to about 60% throttle EPA until they can get around the track without knocking the walls down. And then slowly dial more throttle in as their skill improves.

Breakout racing sounds good in theory but it was tried locally here in Charlotte and it created more problems than it solved.

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Old 12-08-2016, 04:02 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
break out classes....
I'd love to see this. I have no idea if it would work, but the feathers it would ruffle would be an epic scene to watch.

"Congrats, your 17.5 beat half the cars in mod, we bumped you into the mod class! You can swap in a different motor if you'd like to. Please have fun."

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Old 12-08-2016, 04:26 PM   #160
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If you're going to do breakout 'racing', why not just give everybody a participation trophy when they sign up and be done with it?

LOL
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Old 12-08-2016, 06:08 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
Limiting the FDR with no tools for a fast check than only by looking at the numbers on the gears and a list of the internal ratio's is asking to be fooled. Indeed using diffs or pulleys from other brands (or in the case of hudy probably special made) will change the internal ratio.
Currently being developed, and used here in Australia, a simple FDR checker, that plugs into the motors sensor port, and measures the FDR.
If the pulley's are changed, it will detect the change in FDR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSUOI7ikzdk
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Old 12-08-2016, 06:29 PM   #162
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Not sure there us a one size fits all answer. Here in FL, we are home to the FSEARA, which is in its' 36th year and is the longest continuous running road racing series in the US. Here, on this series, mod isn't even run and hasn't been. The class died. In this series there is a mixture of large asphalt tracks and smaller carpet tracks. Recently, the 21.5 class is picking up steam. Unlike many other areas, USGT can't get a foothold but 21.5 TC has. Maybe it's because it's seems to be a very simple path to 17.5. Since there is no mod, 13.5 does quite well and on large tracks where motors and speed can "stretch theirs legs", many seem to find it plenty fast. That's the landscape here. Maybe different than most but the longevity of series speaks for itself.
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Old 12-08-2016, 06:52 PM   #163
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Why the concept of a break out class hurts my soul:



It's not racing.



I think that is reason enough.



On the more serious front, switching to 21.5 will not shake up finishing orders, reduce sandbagging, or make racing easier. It will, however, mean we get to start all over again with new motors.
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Old 12-08-2016, 07:29 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mleemor60 View Post
I have been out of the larger scales for more than 25 years. About 12 years ago I spent about 3 grand in a foray back into the hobby. I bought all the most current gear and went to a race and had everything destroyed in the first corner. In my return I hadn't learned that the hobby I had so much fun with in the early 80's had morphed into some ridiculous blood sport that made you pay for being a noob and continued that way until the "group" decided that no matter how much money you had to spend they couldn't run you out. Then they would begin to offer some rudimentary assistance, nothing big but information that gave you a little flicker of light. It didn't take a whole lot of this "entertainment" to realize that I should move on. I haven't driven a 1/10th or 1/12th scale car in anger since then. Even then people were complaining about "factory drivers" coming in and stealing the show or the local hero drivers that no matter how hard you tried you couldn't quite catch let alone beat not to mention the general high cost and big(for the time) speeds and trying to calm things down.

Here we are several years later and all of the same things are being crabbed about. Like it always is, everybody wants to take something to "help" the issues but nobody seems to want to give anything. There is another thread here that I follow about what to do to increase participation and attract new competitors. Their concerns and complaints are the same as yours at the root of it as well as the causes for it.

Just a thought here but at the club level at least in an attempt to preserve every bodies equipment and at the same time draw in some new people, why not let everybody run what they want regardless of chassis, tire, motor, battery or the vehicle you drove to the event and just establish a minimum lap time. Anything under the minimum won't count. Let the entire group run a controlled practice to establish their best to set the minimum. Kind of like the "index of performance" that was used in International racing(during the 50's) It won't take long for everybody to back up to the minimum and stay just over it. The noob's won't feel like they have been the pivot man at the circle jerk and everybody else will finish in exactly the same position they would have if things were done as before. The one thing that can't be changed in all of this is the "stars" will always be the hero's and the rest of the field will follow albeit a little closer to the front.

Think about it.

Nuff said.
We tried it a few years ago. Called it the Mongrel class where anything could be run and we had a break out time where the lap wouldn't count. It lasted about half a year. It was funny watching cars jamming the brakes before the line because they knew they went too fast. It could have been a good tool for teaching new drivers some precision and the importance of consistency but it seemed anyone running that class wanted to instead run a "real" class whether they were ready or not, much like the guys that ignore the suggestion to start in VTA and go straight to 17.5 TC or another quick class. If people choose to ignore advice they shouldn't get bent out of shape when they stop getting it.
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Old 12-08-2016, 07:42 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by ASM View Post
Not sure there us a one size fits all answer. Here in FL, we are home to the FSEARA, which is in its' 36th year and is the longest continuous running road racing series in the US. Here, on this series, mod isn't even run and hasn't been. The class died. In this series there is a mixture of large asphalt tracks and smaller carpet tracks. Recently, the 21.5 class is picking up steam. Unlike many other areas, USGT can't get a foothold but 21.5 TC has. Maybe it's because it's seems to be a very simple path to 17.5. Since there is no mod, 13.5 does quite well and on large tracks where motors and speed can "stretch theirs legs", many seem to find it plenty fast. That's the landscape here. Maybe different than most but the longevity of series speaks for itself.
I've just stepped in to racing over summer. So just a question. What's difference between USGT and 21.5TC? We ran what I thought was USGT with 21.5
I'm still trying to get the classes to motors straight.
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