What is the best dyno?
09-15-2005, 05:42 PM
#17
I googled the CE TurboDyno...it is the most wanted dyno motor 
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09-15-2005, 06:03 PM
#18
CE Turbo Dyno????
You hear that CE??? Are you listening?????
Get rid of the freaking big boxes already and make a dyno people want.
Sell it for a good fair price.
A product people want and will pay for? Imagine that!!!
Load bearing Dynos are the best as stated. The CE is the best but it is unobtainable for some.
I'm a plastics guy! Tell me what you want.
TEX
Get rid of the freaking big boxes already and make a dyno people want.
Sell it for a good fair price.
A product people want and will pay for? Imagine that!!!
Load bearing Dynos are the best as stated. The CE is the best but it is unobtainable for some.
I'm a plastics guy! Tell me what you want.
TEX
09-15-2005, 06:10 PM
#19
tex1 is right 
, it is too expensive for low wage earner that is addicted to R/c 
..please make it more affordable
, it is too expensive for low wage earner that is addicted to R/c ..please make it more affordable
09-15-2005, 06:17 PM
#20
Why do people say "track is the best dyno"? No, the track can't be the best dyno. How can someone detect the difference between one spring change on one side of the motor? Or putting a hole in the face of a brush? Even if they have a laptimer, it would still be near impossible to say that you ran a tenth faster b/c you put a vertical slot in the brushes. The track changes temps all the time, and you cannot run identical laps with identical battery performance. That's why we buy tuned motors from companies. Because they have a Turbo Dyno that can actually detect the difference in minor changes.
Yes, most of us can detect a dog on the track, but that's about it.
Yes, most of us can detect a dog on the track, but that's about it.
09-16-2005, 09:05 AM
#21
The track is the best dyno because the lap times you turn on it are the only thing that really matter. If for example the hole you drilled in your brush gives you say 2-3 more watts @ 7V with a 30A load but your lap times do not improve (not even a few extra 100ths) when geared properly it didn't really make the car faster and may not have given you any extra power.
Now before you say the TD doesn't lie, let me say I agree with you but when testing with a td your test profile will almost certainly have a fixed test voltage but your car will not. One thing to consider is the voltage curve of your battery in the car, as the amp draw rised the supply voltage drops and @ lower steps such as 15 or 20A you will have 7 or more volts but with a @ 30A burst(hard acceleration out of a corner) you will probably only be putting out about 6.5V and teh 2-3 watts gained @ 7V may net you 0 at 6.5 or even lose a watt or 2.
The TD does give the best results but even it cant factor all variables like the car on the track can.
Mark
Now before you say the TD doesn't lie, let me say I agree with you but when testing with a td your test profile will almost certainly have a fixed test voltage but your car will not. One thing to consider is the voltage curve of your battery in the car, as the amp draw rised the supply voltage drops and @ lower steps such as 15 or 20A you will have 7 or more volts but with a @ 30A burst(hard acceleration out of a corner) you will probably only be putting out about 6.5V and teh 2-3 watts gained @ 7V may net you 0 at 6.5 or even lose a watt or 2.
The TD does give the best results but even it cant factor all variables like the car on the track can.
Mark
09-16-2005, 09:30 AM
#22
Originally Posted by ChadCapece
Why do people say "track is the best dyno"? No, the track can't be the best dyno. How can someone detect the difference between one spring change on one side of the motor? Or putting a hole in the face of a brush? Even if they have a laptimer, it would still be near impossible to say that you ran a tenth faster b/c you put a vertical slot in the brushes. The track changes temps all the time, and you cannot run identical laps with identical battery performance. That's why we buy tuned motors from companies. Because they have a Turbo Dyno that can actually detect the difference in minor changes.
Yes, most of us can detect a dog on the track, but that's about it.
Yes, most of us can detect a dog on the track, but that's about it.
09-16-2005, 09:45 AM
#23
Originally Posted by Nick-C
I have never attended a race that had a class for "Most Watts" or "Highest RPM". I am sure it would get a bunch of entries.
09-16-2005, 12:08 PM
#24
Tech Regular
turbodyno 45
I have a turbodyno 45 im looking to get rid of if anyone is in need im willing to work out a good deal..
You can email me at [email protected]
I have a turbodyno 45 im looking to get rid of if anyone is in need im willing to work out a good deal..
You can email me at [email protected]
09-16-2005, 12:22 PM
#25
Originally Posted by mtveten
The track is the best dyno because the lap times you turn on it are the only thing that really matter. If for example the hole you drilled in your brush gives you say 2-3 more watts @ 7V with a 30A load but your lap times do not improve (not even a few extra 100ths) when geared properly it didn't really make the car faster and may not have given you any extra power.
I don't think you get what I'm saying. You CANNOT make absolutely identical laps. So by tuning your motor by laptimes, you are only getting false info that is probably less accurate than a Fantom or a simple motor checker.
09-16-2005, 12:26 PM
#26
interesting thread. can someone tell me why a load dyno would be better than a flywheel?
my understanding of a load dyno is they use an optical coupling on the output shaft/collar to measure rpm, then place various amounts of resistance (load) across the slave motor. the dyno then calculates rpm/torque/amp draw/efficiency based upon these factors. a flywheel dyno also uses an optical reader to measure rpm off the flywheel. the torque is based upon a specific formula relating to the mass of the flywheel and the acceleration over something like 10-15 reference points per second.
i guess what i'm asking is.. wouldn't a load dyno be affected by the condition of the slave motor (brush bounce, spring tension, brush condition, etc), where as a flywheel dyno provide consistent results?
also, to the previous statement that a high rpm motor would look better on a flywheel dyno, why? this makes no sense to me. the motor will still have to have torque to accelerate the flywheel. all the rpm in the world won't matter if the acceleration/time curve is poor. if the torque at a given amp/rpm is low on one, it would be low on the other. no reason (i can see) one would give a false reading.
my understanding of a load dyno is they use an optical coupling on the output shaft/collar to measure rpm, then place various amounts of resistance (load) across the slave motor. the dyno then calculates rpm/torque/amp draw/efficiency based upon these factors. a flywheel dyno also uses an optical reader to measure rpm off the flywheel. the torque is based upon a specific formula relating to the mass of the flywheel and the acceleration over something like 10-15 reference points per second.
i guess what i'm asking is.. wouldn't a load dyno be affected by the condition of the slave motor (brush bounce, spring tension, brush condition, etc), where as a flywheel dyno provide consistent results?
also, to the previous statement that a high rpm motor would look better on a flywheel dyno, why? this makes no sense to me. the motor will still have to have torque to accelerate the flywheel. all the rpm in the world won't matter if the acceleration/time curve is poor. if the torque at a given amp/rpm is low on one, it would be low on the other. no reason (i can see) one would give a false reading.
09-16-2005, 12:27 PM
#27
A dyno is nothing more than a tool....
Even Big Jim, Jim Deiter, Oscar Jansen, and Mike Reedy will TELL you the track is the best dyno....
I can show you numerous things where a dyno will say something, but it won't always equal a gain on the track......this includes the famed turbo dyno....
And for the record....
I have one or more of pretty much every dyno ever made....including the ultra rare GM dyno....a lavco, 2 fantoms, 7 (yes SEVEN) turbodynos, cs, robi, etc....
Like I said.....NOTHING more than a tool...
Later EddieO
Even Big Jim, Jim Deiter, Oscar Jansen, and Mike Reedy will TELL you the track is the best dyno....
I can show you numerous things where a dyno will say something, but it won't always equal a gain on the track......this includes the famed turbo dyno....
And for the record....
I have one or more of pretty much every dyno ever made....including the ultra rare GM dyno....a lavco, 2 fantoms, 7 (yes SEVEN) turbodynos, cs, robi, etc....
Like I said.....NOTHING more than a tool...
Later EddieO
09-16-2005, 12:33 PM
#28
A slave type dyno actually puts a load on the dyno, that can be varied through the steps.....a flywheel dyno uses a theory based forumla to calculate torque...
And as we all know, torque and RPM are used to calculate overall power....
So in a slave dyno, you will get a true torque reading....along with a true RPM reading.....while in a flywheel dyno, you get a true RPM reading with a GUESS reading of the torque....
Some flywheel dynos do it better than others....the Robitronic dyno is the best of the bunch...
The Fantom sucks.....I can get it to say a 27 turn stock motor is more powerful than a 19t motor at zero degrees timing.....which it won't be.....heavy springs always make motors look better on a flywheel dyno....
And you are 100% correct, the current slave dynos out there are very dependant on condition of the slave motor....
Later EddieO
And as we all know, torque and RPM are used to calculate overall power....
So in a slave dyno, you will get a true torque reading....along with a true RPM reading.....while in a flywheel dyno, you get a true RPM reading with a GUESS reading of the torque....
Some flywheel dynos do it better than others....the Robitronic dyno is the best of the bunch...
The Fantom sucks.....I can get it to say a 27 turn stock motor is more powerful than a 19t motor at zero degrees timing.....which it won't be.....heavy springs always make motors look better on a flywheel dyno....
And you are 100% correct, the current slave dynos out there are very dependant on condition of the slave motor....
Later EddieO
09-16-2005, 02:00 PM
#29
Eddie: The Turbo Dyno in fact is not dependent on the condition of the slave motor. The only thing the slave motor does is produce the load(s) to test the race motor. The dyno won't take it's sampling until the fluctuation in RPM,Amps,and torque have stabilized. If the slave motor is in such bad shape that it can't hold a constant load and stabilization never occurs, it is easily deterimed by not only watching the rpm and torque values fluctuate, but by the erratic increase and decrease in the test motor's RPM.
Hope this hleps...
Todd Putnam
Putnam Propulsion
www.putnampropulsion.com
518-452-0422
Hope this hleps...
Todd Putnam
Putnam Propulsion
www.putnampropulsion.com
518-452-0422
09-16-2005, 02:04 PM
#30
Just out of interest what do you think about the GM dyno?
Some years ago I was working some hours on Ralf Helbings (GM R&D man) own dyno. Now I have my own Robi. Donīt know exactly but I think the GM produce higher HP numbers than the Robi. At least if you use the default 7.2V setting so maybe GM use a higher voltage or the calculating is different.
Here in Europe I never have seen a CE dyno, donīt know if anyone is using one. At least if you see a dyno at the race most time itīs a Robi sometimes a CS, but I think this one isnīt that consistent as they just use a batteriepack without regulation.
Some years ago I was working some hours on Ralf Helbings (GM R&D man) own dyno. Now I have my own Robi. Donīt know exactly but I think the GM produce higher HP numbers than the Robi. At least if you use the default 7.2V setting so maybe GM use a higher voltage or the calculating is different.
Here in Europe I never have seen a CE dyno, donīt know if anyone is using one. At least if you see a dyno at the race most time itīs a Robi sometimes a CS, but I think this one isnīt that consistent as they just use a batteriepack without regulation.