Doing Away With Boosted....
06-04-2012, 09:47 PM
#257
If I was an organizer, if Mod = 100%, slow class is 60 - 75% of that pace.
Boost seems to already reach 90 - 95% of Mod speed, maybe best to just combine them into a single class (whether it is Mod or it is boosted).
Just my thoughts.
Boost seems to already reach 90 - 95% of Mod speed, maybe best to just combine them into a single class (whether it is Mod or it is boosted).
Just my thoughts.
06-05-2012, 08:45 AM
#258
Once again, Boost is dead. We unfortunately won't be bringing it back in the US anytime soon.
17.5 blinky is fine for stock in 2s classes, but in 1s applications it's pretty dull.
Maybe move 12th scale stock to 13.5 blinky, 12th Superstock to 10.5 blinky?
And make WGT 10.5 blinky too.
17.5 blinky is fine for stock in 2s classes, but in 1s applications it's pretty dull.
Maybe move 12th scale stock to 13.5 blinky, 12th Superstock to 10.5 blinky?
And make WGT 10.5 blinky too.
06-05-2012, 09:18 AM
#259
Once again, Boost is dead. We unfortunately won't be bringing it back in the US anytime soon.
17.5 blinky is fine for stock in 2s classes, but in 1s applications it's pretty dull.
Maybe move 12th scale stock to 13.5 blinky, 12th Superstock to 10.5 blinky?
And make WGT 10.5 blinky too.
17.5 blinky is fine for stock in 2s classes, but in 1s applications it's pretty dull.
Maybe move 12th scale stock to 13.5 blinky, 12th Superstock to 10.5 blinky?
And make WGT 10.5 blinky too.
06-05-2012, 11:34 AM
#260
Boost is alive and well in Western Canada. Pan cars all run boost 12th is 17.5 boosted or 10.5 boosted. WGT is 13.5 boosted. TC is 17.5 blinky or Mod. But with our smaller indoor carpet tracks most guys are thinking 8.5-13.5 boosted is likely the ticket.
At the last club race the top 4 racers were 3 seconds apart in 12 scale. It was an 8 min train. The racing is so close that 1 mistake and you are usually a lap down
We, The racers decide what classes we run and what the rules are. We start with the basic ROAR and the choose what motor combos to run. Last year we ran TC 13.5 boost but we change to TC Open, run anything you want. If it doesn't work out then next year we will change it.
At the last club race the top 4 racers were 3 seconds apart in 12 scale. It was an 8 min train. The racing is so close that 1 mistake and you are usually a lap down
We, The racers decide what classes we run and what the rules are. We start with the basic ROAR and the choose what motor combos to run. Last year we ran TC 13.5 boost but we change to TC Open, run anything you want. If it doesn't work out then next year we will change it.
06-05-2012, 12:43 PM
#261
I can think of 3 big reasons why we should not get rid of boosted:
People are fully aware that dynamic (boosted) timing is faster/more efficient. Trying to push away, hide, or altogether ban dynamic timing technology opens up a new ways for cheating. Computer geeks would become the future cheaters. The speedos are controlled by software code. In fact, I know of 2 people who have already programmed their own custom firmware for 2 different types of speedos. This means you could create a custom firmware that gave blinky LED's but with a small amount (5 degrees for example) of dynamic timing. Heck, you could even write your code to activate 5 degrees only after I hit my brake 3 times (or similar sequence). Oh, and after the car is turned off, return to 0 degrees of timing just in case tech inspectors hook it up to a computer.
Having dynamic timing variables can be frustrating at times. But it will get easier in the future. My message is this. Have some patience. The same companies who brought you brushless technology and dynamic timing will be the same companies that bring new future speedo technologies that will provide some major conveniences like:
I’m sure manufacturers are already working on these kind of future technologies. If not, maybe they should hire me for consulting
Let the limiting factor be the motor and don’t tie the hands of the speedo companies so that they can continue to make our hobby more convenient, economical, and easier for new racers to join.
Additionally, as a manufacturer, I can tell you that if rules stay put for a while, we'd be more willing to manufacture cars/parts in higher quantities which would drop the prices, allowing more people to enjoy the hobby. RTR kits would be an option too, which can really help grow the hobby.
- It adds an additional way to cheat.
- It stifles future technology growth and removes possible future conveniences.
- Rapid rule changes are bad for the hobby and for manufacturers.
People are fully aware that dynamic (boosted) timing is faster/more efficient. Trying to push away, hide, or altogether ban dynamic timing technology opens up a new ways for cheating. Computer geeks would become the future cheaters. The speedos are controlled by software code. In fact, I know of 2 people who have already programmed their own custom firmware for 2 different types of speedos. This means you could create a custom firmware that gave blinky LED's but with a small amount (5 degrees for example) of dynamic timing. Heck, you could even write your code to activate 5 degrees only after I hit my brake 3 times (or similar sequence). Oh, and after the car is turned off, return to 0 degrees of timing just in case tech inspectors hook it up to a computer.
Having dynamic timing variables can be frustrating at times. But it will get easier in the future. My message is this. Have some patience. The same companies who brought you brushless technology and dynamic timing will be the same companies that bring new future speedo technologies that will provide some major conveniences like:
- Boost by Amp draw instead of RPM ranges. <--- Ding ding ding... winner!
- Detailed data logging to make it easier to see what’s happening and help you choose settings and even rollouts.
- Automatic optimal timing setting based on your current run or your last runs.
- Heat sensing technology which automatically reduces timing to make it impossible to burn up a motor. Imagine that!
- Ability to define how long the race is and set a maximum temperature you are willing to finish with. (Imagine you are on your roof for 2-3 laps while being marshaled, your motor is now a tad cooler than the others. The speedo knows the clock and will increase the timing a little which helps you to finish as strong as possible.)
- Ability to decide heat strategy like: “Go easy on my slippery tires at first, finish me strong!” or “Get me to the front early at all costs!” or “Give me optimal heat for the most number of laps”.
I’m sure manufacturers are already working on these kind of future technologies. If not, maybe they should hire me for consulting
Let the limiting factor be the motor and don’t tie the hands of the speedo companies so that they can continue to make our hobby more convenient, economical, and easier for new racers to join.
Additionally, as a manufacturer, I can tell you that if rules stay put for a while, we'd be more willing to manufacture cars/parts in higher quantities which would drop the prices, allowing more people to enjoy the hobby. RTR kits would be an option too, which can really help grow the hobby.
06-05-2012, 04:16 PM
#262
Maybe for slow class, use sensorless to address issues of cheating software. Tamiya (Asia) does it for their series and racing is very close.
Sure there is cogging, but it will be same for everyone.
Sure there is cogging, but it will be same for everyone.
06-05-2012, 09:41 PM
#265
Boost is alive and well in Western Canada. Pan cars all run boost 12th is 17.5 boosted or 10.5 boosted. WGT is 13.5 boosted. TC is 17.5 blinky or Mod. But with our smaller indoor carpet tracks most guys are thinking 8.5-13.5 boosted is likely the ticket.
At the last club race the top 4 racers were 3 seconds apart in 12 scale. It was an 8 min train. The racing is so close that 1 mistake and you are usually a lap down
We, The racers decide what classes we run and what the rules are. We start with the basic ROAR and the choose what motor combos to run. Last year we ran TC 13.5 boost but we change to TC Open, run anything you want. If it doesn't work out then next year we will change it.
At the last club race the top 4 racers were 3 seconds apart in 12 scale. It was an 8 min train. The racing is so close that 1 mistake and you are usually a lap down
We, The racers decide what classes we run and what the rules are. We start with the basic ROAR and the choose what motor combos to run. Last year we ran TC 13.5 boost but we change to TC Open, run anything you want. If it doesn't work out then next year we will change it.
06-05-2012, 10:01 PM
#267
I was still melting motors running my black diamond getting all I could out of the motor and batteries. and this from someone that owns 3 BD and 5 Tekins and runs them all in blinky right now. well not one of BD I run it in Mod 12th scale the other I run in VTA roar events set on blinky!
just thinking that you can boost yourself to a win with crappy motor and battery is self defeating and becasue if the guy next to you has better batts and motor he's still going faster then you for longer even boosted
06-05-2012, 10:20 PM
#268
+100000000000000
I was still melting motors running my black diamond getting all I could out of the motor and batteries. and this from someone that owns 3 BD and 5 Tekins and runs them all in blinky right now. well not one of BD I run it in Mod 12th scale the other I run in VTA roar events set on blinky!
just thinking that you can boost yourself to a win with crappy motor and battery is self defeating and becasue if the guy next to you has better batts and motor he's still going faster then you for longer even boosted
I was still melting motors running my black diamond getting all I could out of the motor and batteries. and this from someone that owns 3 BD and 5 Tekins and runs them all in blinky right now. well not one of BD I run it in Mod 12th scale the other I run in VTA roar events set on blinky!
just thinking that you can boost yourself to a win with crappy motor and battery is self defeating and becasue if the guy next to you has better batts and motor he's still going faster then you for longer even boosted
My motor dyno'd poorly according to the Fantom Dyno we used, yet with appropriate esc settings my package could run a better 8 min. average than yours. I realize that some of that is down to driver in a given 8 min. session. But my hot lap was within 1 hundreth of the fastest car in the building that weekend.
Knowledge=power, and in this instance Horsepower. Sorry, just the facts....
I know some people hate when facts actually enter the argument. Of course this is 1s 12th based, so I can already hear the TC guys cry foul.......
06-05-2012, 10:23 PM
#269
http://www.rc50.com/results/2009hall...ck_A-Main.html
you had a completely clean run, I had a crappy 1st and 3rd and 24th lap and if you add up those mistakes I made I would have probably beat you.
remember though it's club racing for bowling trophies not everybody has the money to put up or shut up like I did at the 2009 indoor champs and buy 3 $350 black diamonds that weren't worth anything by snowbirds 2 months later.
when I pushed my track to blinky I got lots of "I'll quit" statements but I had more guys get back in it becasue they didn't have to worry about what speed control was going to be the next best thing. my track had it's best year in onroad because not only could people spend what limited budget their wife lets them spend on something other then the speed control but they worried less that they weren't wearing the equipment out as fast.
The most popular oval class I have is tour spec "blinky" truck 20 to 30 entries this last winter. boosted car all but died.
The only one I still have problems with if my offroad track that still wants to run boosted but then it is a 10.5 class. so it's overkill but still the fastest driver has the best motor/battery and is the best driver at going fast on my track.
do you want to race against 25 F1 teams or know that there is thousands of short track street stocks spec guys to race against across the country. you tell me?
Last edited by nashrcracer; 06-05-2012 at 10:33 PM.