R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-04-2012, 10:12 PM   #256
Tech Elite
 
Bob-Stormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Glasgow, Montana USA
Posts: 3,518
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot View Post
sounds good, wheres the line between fast and slow??
easy to spot, similar line happens when discussing "affordable".
__________________
www.stormerhobbies.com "Where the world shops for radio control."™
www.facebook.com/stormerhobbies
www.twitter.com/stormerhobbies

looking for....vintage 1/10-1/12 pan, need Schumacher 1/12th cars and parts.
Bob-Stormer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2012, 10:47 PM   #257
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,002
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot View Post
sounds good, wheres the line between fast and slow??
If I was an organizer, if Mod = 100%, slow class is 60 - 75% of that pace.

Boost seems to already reach 90 - 95% of Mod speed, maybe best to just combine them into a single class (whether it is Mod or it is boosted).

Just my thoughts.
__________________
www.rccartips.com
www.f1rccars.com
www.f1rcclub.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/rccartips/
http://www.facebook.com/RCCarTipsFan
rccartips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 09:45 AM   #258
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,618
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Once again, Boost is dead. We unfortunately won't be bringing it back in the US anytime soon.

17.5 blinky is fine for stock in 2s classes, but in 1s applications it's pretty dull.

Maybe move 12th scale stock to 13.5 blinky, 12th Superstock to 10.5 blinky?
And make WGT 10.5 blinky too.
__________________
Team CRC, PowerPush, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, TxDSkingraphix, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 10:18 AM   #259
AOD
Tech Regular
 
AOD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 9th Island
Posts: 471
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
Once again, Boost is dead. We unfortunately won't be bringing it back in the US anytime soon.

17.5 blinky is fine for stock in 2s classes, but in 1s applications it's pretty dull.

Maybe move 12th scale stock to 13.5 blinky, 12th Superstock to 10.5 blinky?
And make WGT 10.5 blinky too.
+1
AOD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 12:34 PM   #260
Tech Master
 
Madulla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,039
Default

Boost is alive and well in Western Canada. Pan cars all run boost 12th is 17.5 boosted or 10.5 boosted. WGT is 13.5 boosted. TC is 17.5 blinky or Mod. But with our smaller indoor carpet tracks most guys are thinking 8.5-13.5 boosted is likely the ticket.

At the last club race the top 4 racers were 3 seconds apart in 12 scale. It was an 8 min train. The racing is so close that 1 mistake and you are usually a lap down

We, The racers decide what classes we run and what the rules are. We start with the basic ROAR and the choose what motor combos to run. Last year we ran TC 13.5 boost but we change to TC Open, run anything you want. If it doesn't work out then next year we will change it.
__________________
Hobbywing North America Team Driver
hobbywingdirect.com
Madulla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 01:43 PM   #261
Tech Fanatic
 
James35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 750
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I can think of 3 big reasons why we should not get rid of boosted:
  1. It adds an additional way to cheat.
  2. It stifles future technology growth and removes possible future conveniences.
  3. Rapid rule changes are bad for the hobby and for manufacturers.

People are fully aware that dynamic (boosted) timing is faster/more efficient. Trying to push away, hide, or altogether ban dynamic timing technology opens up a new ways for cheating. Computer geeks would become the future cheaters. The speedos are controlled by software code. In fact, I know of 2 people who have already programmed their own custom firmware for 2 different types of speedos. This means you could create a custom firmware that gave blinky LED's but with a small amount (5 degrees for example) of dynamic timing. Heck, you could even write your code to activate 5 degrees only after I hit my brake 3 times (or similar sequence). Oh, and after the car is turned off, return to 0 degrees of timing just in case tech inspectors hook it up to a computer.

Having dynamic timing variables can be frustrating at times. But it will get easier in the future. My message is this. Have some patience. The same companies who brought you brushless technology and dynamic timing will be the same companies that bring new future speedo technologies that will provide some major conveniences like:
  • Boost by Amp draw instead of RPM ranges. <--- Ding ding ding... winner!
  • Detailed data logging to make it easier to see what’s happening and help you choose settings and even rollouts.
  • Automatic optimal timing setting based on your current run or your last runs.
  • Heat sensing technology which automatically reduces timing to make it impossible to burn up a motor. Imagine that!
  • Ability to define how long the race is and set a maximum temperature you are willing to finish with. (Imagine you are on your roof for 2-3 laps while being marshaled, your motor is now a tad cooler than the others. The speedo knows the clock and will increase the timing a little which helps you to finish as strong as possible.)
  • Ability to decide heat strategy like: “Go easy on my slippery tires at first, finish me strong!” or “Get me to the front early at all costs!” or “Give me optimal heat for the most number of laps”.

I’m sure manufacturers are already working on these kind of future technologies. If not, maybe they should hire me for consulting

Let the limiting factor be the motor and don’t tie the hands of the speedo companies so that they can continue to make our hobby more convenient, economical, and easier for new racers to join.

Additionally, as a manufacturer, I can tell you that if rules stay put for a while, we'd be more willing to manufacture cars/parts in higher quantities which would drop the prices, allowing more people to enjoy the hobby. RTR kits would be an option too, which can really help grow the hobby.
__________________
James Van Horn
McPappy Racing
James35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 05:16 PM   #262
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,002
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Maybe for slow class, use sensorless to address issues of cheating software. Tamiya (Asia) does it for their series and racing is very close.

Sure there is cogging, but it will be same for everyone.
__________________
www.rccartips.com
www.f1rccars.com
www.f1rcclub.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/rccartips/
http://www.facebook.com/RCCarTipsFan
rccartips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 06:07 PM   #263
Tech Addict
 
Lessen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Aurora, OH
Posts: 594
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to Lessen
Default

Maybe if people can't/won't pony up (money and pride) and admit to themselves that all racing gets more expensive the higher you move up the ladder they should just learn to be content running in the "C"heap main.
__________________
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. "
Lessen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 06:22 PM   #264
Tech Elite
 
DesertRat's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sniffin the 'Sauce Fumes
Posts: 2,709
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Unless we all go Barbie Jeep racing.....
__________________
I race toy cars for fun. If I need to explain, you'll never understand.
Current rides: Diggity DC4 Chassis #10. Losi JRX-S Type R. Losi 22 4.0, CRC Xi (retired), CRC Altered Ego Aluminum Chassis. Associated B4 based dirt oval late model.
WTB: Carpet racing in Arizona.
DesertRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 10:41 PM   #265
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,618
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madulla View Post
Boost is alive and well in Western Canada. Pan cars all run boost 12th is 17.5 boosted or 10.5 boosted. WGT is 13.5 boosted. TC is 17.5 blinky or Mod. But with our smaller indoor carpet tracks most guys are thinking 8.5-13.5 boosted is likely the ticket.

At the last club race the top 4 racers were 3 seconds apart in 12 scale. It was an 8 min train. The racing is so close that 1 mistake and you are usually a lap down

We, The racers decide what classes we run and what the rules are. We start with the basic ROAR and the choose what motor combos to run. Last year we ran TC 13.5 boost but we change to TC Open, run anything you want. If it doesn't work out then next year we will change it.
Considering application for dual-citizenship........
__________________
Team CRC, PowerPush, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, TxDSkingraphix, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 10:47 PM   #266
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,618
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessen View Post
Maybe if people can't/won't pony up (money and pride) and admit to themselves that all racing gets more expensive the higher you move up the ladder they should just learn to be content running in the "C"heap main.
Quote of the thread. Those without talent and knowledge will lose no matter how slow we make the game. Learn or lose, welcome to motorsport folks.........
__________________
Team CRC, PowerPush, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, TxDSkingraphix, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 11:01 PM   #267
Tech Elite
 
nashrcracer's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: LA - Lower Antioch
Posts: 4,911
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowerOne View Post
It's each to their own, but anyone who thinks that cells and motors are not a factor in any class, boosted or not, is kidding themselves.
+100000000000000

I was still melting motors running my black diamond getting all I could out of the motor and batteries. and this from someone that owns 3 BD and 5 Tekins and runs them all in blinky right now. well not one of BD I run it in Mod 12th scale the other I run in VTA roar events set on blinky!

just thinking that you can boost yourself to a win with crappy motor and battery is self defeating and becasue if the guy next to you has better batts and motor he's still going faster then you for longer even boosted
__________________
RC50 As you come into this world, something else is also born. You begin your life, and it begins a journey towards you. It moves slowly, but it never stops. Wherever you go, whatever path you take, it will follow — never faster, never slower, always coming. You will run, it will walk. You will rest, it will not. One day, you will linger in the same place too long — you will sit too still, or sleep too deep. And when, too late, you rise to go, you will notice a second shadow next to yours. Your life will then be over.
nashrcracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 11:20 PM   #268
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,618
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashrcracer View Post
+100000000000000

I was still melting motors running my black diamond getting all I could out of the motor and batteries. and this from someone that owns 3 BD and 5 Tekins and runs them all in blinky right now. well not one of BD I run it in Mod 12th scale the other I run in VTA roar events set on blinky!

just thinking that you can boost yourself to a win with crappy motor and battery is self defeating and becasue if the guy next to you has better batts and motor he's still going faster then you for longer even boosted
Point of contention, 2K9 Halloween Classic, I had a "mediocre" motor, and decent battery, yet I managed to defeat you resoundingly in the A-main.

My motor dyno'd poorly according to the Fantom Dyno we used, yet with appropriate esc settings my package could run a better 8 min. average than yours. I realize that some of that is down to driver in a given 8 min. session. But my hot lap was within 1 hundreth of the fastest car in the building that weekend.

Knowledge=power, and in this instance Horsepower. Sorry, just the facts....
I know some people hate when facts actually enter the argument. Of course this is 1s 12th based, so I can already hear the TC guys cry foul.......
__________________
Team CRC, PowerPush, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, TxDSkingraphix, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 11:23 PM   #269
Tech Elite
 
nashrcracer's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: LA - Lower Antioch
Posts: 4,911
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
Quote of the thread. Those without talent and knowledge will lose no matter how slow we make the game. Learn or lose, welcome to motorsport folks.........
Quote:
Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
Point of contention, 2K9 Halloween Classic, I had a "mediocre" motor, and decent battery, yet I managed to defeat you resoundingly in the A-main.
I actually had a faster lap then you and had out qualified you with a great Duo1 motor and some killer batteries.

http://www.rc50.com/results/2009hall...ck_A-Main.html

you had a completely clean run, I had a crappy 1st and 3rd and 24th lap and if you add up those mistakes I made I would have probably beat you.

remember though it's club racing for bowling trophies not everybody has the money to put up or shut up like I did at the 2009 indoor champs and buy 3 $350 black diamonds that weren't worth anything by snowbirds 2 months later.

when I pushed my track to blinky I got lots of "I'll quit" statements but I had more guys get back in it becasue they didn't have to worry about what speed control was going to be the next best thing. my track had it's best year in onroad because not only could people spend what limited budget their wife lets them spend on something other then the speed control but they worried less that they weren't wearing the equipment out as fast.

The most popular oval class I have is tour spec "blinky" truck 20 to 30 entries this last winter. boosted car all but died.

The only one I still have problems with if my offroad track that still wants to run boosted but then it is a 10.5 class. so it's overkill but still the fastest driver has the best motor/battery and is the best driver at going fast on my track.

do you want to race against 25 F1 teams or know that there is thousands of short track street stocks spec guys to race against across the country. you tell me?
__________________
RC50 As you come into this world, something else is also born. You begin your life, and it begins a journey towards you. It moves slowly, but it never stops. Wherever you go, whatever path you take, it will follow — never faster, never slower, always coming. You will run, it will walk. You will rest, it will not. One day, you will linger in the same place too long — you will sit too still, or sleep too deep. And when, too late, you rise to go, you will notice a second shadow next to yours. Your life will then be over.

Last edited by nashrcracer; 06-05-2012 at 11:33 PM.
nashrcracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 11:28 PM   #270
Tech Elite
 
DesertRat's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sniffin the 'Sauce Fumes
Posts: 2,709
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Eventually, we will have non-boosted motors with locked endbells (probably at 35 degrees or so) checked by the guy with the oscilloscope to see if they have been tampered with. It's only a matter of time.
__________________
I race toy cars for fun. If I need to explain, you'll never understand.
Current rides: Diggity DC4 Chassis #10. Losi JRX-S Type R. Losi 22 4.0, CRC Xi (retired), CRC Altered Ego Aluminum Chassis. Associated B4 based dirt oval late model.
WTB: Carpet racing in Arizona.
DesertRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electric Indoor at Leisure Hours mjk1210 Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 4752 03-19-2012 01:59 PM
boosted ESC & 17.5 motor in modified class? Eaglesrx Electric Off-Road 13 02-25-2012 01:19 AM
17.5 stock class Jonny5 Electric Off-Road 70 07-02-2011 12:37 AM
Thoughts on classes with no timing or boost Ozzie Electric On-Road 147 11-04-2010 09:07 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 10:21 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net