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Old 02-06-2012, 09:36 AM   #10426
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Anybody run 0-2 low roll center(no shims under the lower outside arms) front and back???? It seems to be the best way to really lower the roll center .... I am trying everything to stop traction rolling....
Running without any shims will make the car roll more and create more traction. You want to raise the wishbone mounts and lower the toplink ballstud to reduce roll, this will make the car much sharper to drive. Running softer springs will reduce grip roll. You could also back off the droop screws, it is possible to make the car to roll violently when the suspension jacks on the droop screw.
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:58 AM   #10427
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I had no roll at all, and the car was traction rolling at every turn: my springs never compressed at all, and all the energy went t o the side of the tire. I am hoping to cause the spring to compress and absorb some of the lateral energy by lowering the roll center... All the other manufacturers (xray etc..) have their top links flat, and to achieve that in a tc4 I needed to put 6+ shims under the inner ballstud. I have yet to test my new setup, but I think it's a step in the right direction. I tried the other way around, and it did not work at all....no corner speed at all...
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:24 PM   #10428
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You running the tub car? You will reach a point of no return with the tub car. Once you hit its limit... the rest will be lost in chassis twist. The lower the grip the better the tub car is. I know that sounds simplistic and redundant but its SO true.

If you want a chassis that can run with the newer cars, you need the Tc3 tub or dual plate CF. Each have their own downfalls... but the Tc3 tub is easiest to overcome, and makes the best use of the suspension design.

Ill tell ya now youre WAY off base trying to match camber link angles. I was convinced for the longest time... mathmatically, the pivot points of a suspension should equate from one chassis design to the next. If anything give you a base setup to start with. The Tc4 tub takes that theory and spits on it.

You can get a Tc3 tub car to roll and move like the newer belt cars do... and it works really well for rubber tire asphalt racing... but the shape of the tub causes it to drag the racing surface.

If you rate rubber tire/racing surface traction on a scale of 0-10, 10 being blued up carpet, 7 being prepped and sugar watered hot asphalt, 3 being unprepped parking lot racing, 0 being well... zero. lol I say a Tc3 tubbed shaft car can compete up to 8-9 and as low as 4. A Tc4 tubbed shaft car can compete up to 6-7 and as low as 3.

The Tc3 tub fades on hot asphalt. The track temp and motor temp make the car soft. Its sharp and cuts like a new #11 XActo knife until the chassis gets heat in it. The sad thing is... Tc4 tub holds no candle to the ability of the Tc3 tub.

I miss TC racing... but i doubt very seriously ill ever get back into it unless AE releases another shaft car built with the refined ideas of the TC6.1

The market is there... someones just gotta build the damn thing...
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:33 PM   #10429
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Hi guys
I am getting ready to get a TC4 and I am very new to on-road. I am interested with just parking lot bashing/drifting. What motor/esc would you guys recommend? Gearing?
I have read somewhere the stock outdrives give out easily so I am planning to get the steel ones.

I have a Sidewinder/3800kv combo, I wonder if it'll work with the TC4?

Thanks guys and appreciate the help.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:33 PM   #10430
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I understand you Davew, but I have to try first. My ultimate goal here is to make the tc4 compress its springs instead of traction rolling like a brick, whether it lowers my laptimes enough to compete or not. Mind you I am still running a brushed Monster horsepower motor versus the new 17.5t brushless, so it might not be just the car's fault....
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:31 AM   #10431
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I'd say the biggest problem with the TC4 tub is the tub itself, it doesn't flex enough to generate much if any traction especially in the rear and the flex is unequal left to right due to the shape of the tub. Also their is too much weight at the rear. BMI came closest to fixing all of the problems with their chassis kit.

In all of the work I've done with mines so far I found the car rolled too much as standard but it doesn't lean like modern day cars do. I'm now running with 3.5mm under the wishbone mounts and 1mm under the top links to reduce roll in the car. Granted I am running slightly larger tires (65mm dia) but after using BobW's roll center program it showed me how far out the car is to start with. I've also moved the motor forward 10mm which really helps the corner weights and rear weight bias.

bertrandsv87, less washers under the wishbone mounts increases roll, more washers decreases roll. The opposite is true for the top links.

The last couple of weeks I've ran the car without chassis brace's as well, that makes a big difference and the extra flex generated alot more grip. Leaving the brace's on the left side only evened the flex out side to side but the car was alot easier to drive and predictable with no braces at all.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:30 PM   #10432
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I'd say the biggest problem with the TC4 tub is the tub itself... and the flex is unequal left to right due to the shape of the tub.
THANK YOU! Someone else agrees with me! I said that years ago when the chassis first came out and i was told i was crazy... and it wouldnt make a difference.



Thats the Tc3 tub's biggest advantage... its shape and center spine. If they remade the upper trans cases with the inner camber links molded to it... vertical ballstuds... and just updated the car overall based on the good from the Tc3 and the Tc4... the shaft car would make a comeback. Especially with the trend for blinky classes... the shaft car would have a huge following once again.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:58 PM   #10433
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Conrad, you are right about body roll, but I am trying to solve traction roll instead. There is a balance between the two, and finding it is key. So far , less body roll has not worked, and I need to try more body roll , with a lower roll center, to see what that does...
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:52 PM   #10434
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Wouldn't be best to setup the tc4 so it would stay somewhat flat while the springs get compressed all the way down in a turn ? Wouldn't a low roll center, and a stabilizer bar achieve that better than a high roll center???
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Old 02-07-2012, 09:20 PM   #10435
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Stay away from the swaybars. Tune the car without them. The idea is to let the chassis roll to bleed excessive traction without binding up the car through the corner.

The TOP Photon i had i tried to get rid of some of the roll so it didnt feel so lazy. I was so used to the snap response of the shaft car that the Photon felt like a Milk truck... but it still provided fast laps.

I think its important to realize the chassis limitations, and its design intent. Making one fast is a lot of work. I mean A LOT. So stick to the common setups and work from there...
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:44 PM   #10436
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can some one give me hint or two on a setup
im running on a smaller track with a stock silver can and
need to know what i should start the gearing at
and what spring& oil wt i should start with
will a jr z590 servo work or do i need to have a low profile servo?

thanks
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:33 AM   #10437
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Originally Posted by c0nr4d View Post
Hi guys
I am getting ready to get a TC4 and I am very new to on-road. I am interested with just parking lot bashing/drifting. What motor/esc would you guys recommend? Gearing?
I have read somewhere the stock outdrives give out easily so I am planning to get the steel ones.

I have a Sidewinder/3800kv combo, I wonder if it'll work with the TC4?

Thanks guys and appreciate the help.
Anyone?

Thanks
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:19 AM   #10438
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I have the black swaybars front and rear, and it seems to work in the rear, which had a low roll center, but the front could not operate since the springs did not compress at all. I ran green springs rear with 40wt oil, and blue front springs with 40wt oil. The front seem to want to jack the car, while the rear is planted with lots of traction. That's why I think lowering the front roll center might do the trick. I'll let you know how it went soon....
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:39 AM   #10439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW View Post
I was so used to the snap response of the shaft car that the Photon felt like a Milk truck... but it still provided fast laps.
ROFL So true, the TC4 is spirited to drive so to speak

My mate has ran the TC4 since it first came out and it was always a nice car to drive so I picked one up cheap last year to try and help him out and I've been hooked on this crazy tub ever since, still a few laps of a modern car but closing the gap, the next step is a chassis. I can't improve on stock anymore than it is just now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW View Post
THANK YOU! Someone else agrees with me! I said that years ago when the chassis first came out and i was told i was crazy... and it wouldnt make a difference.
Well I'm not the only one, do an advanced search on this thread by all posts made by protc3 (Jason from BMI), he realized and corrected all of the car's shortfalls in '05. Just wish I had a BMI chassis now to play with, I knew someone that had one years ago, what a sleek sexy looking car in the flesh. Had the standard TC4 tub of been made symetrical rather than having one side stepped out then the flex would be alot more even left/right and it would have alot better.


I always found the lightest weight of sway bars hurt handling rather than improving it, I never ran anything below silver but now I don't run them at all and control the amount of roll through the roll centers instead. Check out BobW's thread and use his camber gain/roll centre calculator to see just how much roll you have in the car, here's my post with the numbers for the TC4. I normally run about -8mm to -9mm of roll.
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Last edited by Conrad; 02-08-2012 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:49 AM   #10440
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hey, does anyone here already sucessful/done with metal yokomo CS kit FCD (not with active hobby plastic) implemented in tc 4?

does any mod for it?

if anyone alreday done it, please tell me.....

THX........
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