VTA Rules
03-07-2011, 01:03 PM
#31
The 17.5 was in the old rules ?? Really ?? man I must be gettin old. I don't remember that at all. I thought it was 21.5bl/2s lipo or 27t brushed with 4 cell nicd/nimh.
Sorry Scootr.
Wasn't this thread about the LRP Sphere and /or other ESC's being allowed ??
Sorry Scootr.
Wasn't this thread about the LRP Sphere and /or other ESC's being allowed ??
03-07-2011, 01:09 PM
#32
Roar rules where done by me, but they do not reflect the current changes to the class. They should be updated. As it has been said, ROAR cannot show any manufacturer favoritism in the rules.
As far as Doug and myself, "sold" would be the wrong word, LOL. This thing has only cost us money and time. Doug needed more time for his family and other things, so I offered to take over. It looks like he may be able to join us at the nationals this year.
For power trains, we ran 4 cell/27t, then 4 cell 17.5 as brush motors and parts became more scarce. At one point we tried 21.5 2s (I found the original motor and Doug bought it) and that seemed like a good deal, but thing got out of hand before we knew it. If I had it to do all over again, it probably would have been some sort of deal where we skipped the whole 21.5 2s "timing" era...
As far as Doug and myself, "sold" would be the wrong word, LOL. This thing has only cost us money and time. Doug needed more time for his family and other things, so I offered to take over. It looks like he may be able to join us at the nationals this year.
For power trains, we ran 4 cell/27t, then 4 cell 17.5 as brush motors and parts became more scarce. At one point we tried 21.5 2s (I found the original motor and Doug bought it) and that seemed like a good deal, but thing got out of hand before we knew it. If I had it to do all over again, it probably would have been some sort of deal where we skipped the whole 21.5 2s "timing" era...
03-07-2011, 05:12 PM
#33
I am the owner of the Hobby Shop Jay was talking about
I wasn't going to bring my 'issues' with Novak in the open,
Our tracks VTA rules is what OUR racers want, not very many [maybe 1 or 2] go to any 'National 'VTA events, they are aware of the difference in rules
Our rules are clearly posted on our Clubs webpage
I believe Jay was working on a ESC problem, not a rule problem so most of you are way off base.
NOVAK TWO, you may check with 'Brent" about our short conversation on Feb 9th and the email he responded to.
Our Club [OVRCCC] ran 'Nostalgia' 4 yrs ago, handout motors, ect 1800mah nicads
We also were one of the 1st tracks to endorse 'Brushless' and NOvAK supported us in our endeavors
Thankx, Bill
I wasn't going to bring my 'issues' with Novak in the open,
Our tracks VTA rules is what OUR racers want, not very many [maybe 1 or 2] go to any 'National 'VTA events, they are aware of the difference in rules
Our rules are clearly posted on our Clubs webpage
I believe Jay was working on a ESC problem, not a rule problem so most of you are way off base.
NOVAK TWO, you may check with 'Brent" about our short conversation on Feb 9th and the email he responded to.
Our Club [OVRCCC] ran 'Nostalgia' 4 yrs ago, handout motors, ect 1800mah nicads
We also were one of the 1st tracks to endorse 'Brushless' and NOvAK supported us in our endeavors
Thankx, Bill
03-07-2011, 07:02 PM
#34
I don't work in CS and do not have direct access to CS data or Tech Support communications. if you wish to PM me about problems or need assistance, I can help. Customer service and management were notified immediately concerning the issue up-thread; I can assist in resolving any additional problems. Our CS manager responded to me immediately, and is willing to work with your customer to get this sorted out.
03-07-2011, 08:09 PM
#36
I think you're doing the right thing here by letting NovakTwo know about this situation. Clearly many more people have had good to great success with Novak products and there's no way to guarantee what , if any, other situations may have caused the failures. Through Novak's continued presence here on the forum, it's clear they would like to know what caused the failures too and also clear that they want to show a high level of customer support. Think of it as a double edged sword. You can't ask THIS many people to commit to your product and then have shoddy customer service or sell products that don't live up to the standard. We're a tough bunch....sell us on it and let us down and we'll never let you forget it.
To get back on track with this thread though, Rob K has answered the question about the Sphere. At this point, anybody involved and enjoying VTA will simply tell you that there's an obvious reason for VTA not allowing a particular piece of electronics BUT the other part of that equation is that Novak is the ONLY electronics company that's stepped up to the bat and supported the effort to such a great degree. In my book that means an awful lot.
To get back on track with this thread though, Rob K has answered the question about the Sphere. At this point, anybody involved and enjoying VTA will simply tell you that there's an obvious reason for VTA not allowing a particular piece of electronics BUT the other part of that equation is that Novak is the ONLY electronics company that's stepped up to the bat and supported the effort to such a great degree. In my book that means an awful lot.
Could you direct me to this answer? I am not sure where to find it.
03-07-2011, 09:34 PM
#37
Tech Apprentice
iTrader: (12)
03-08-2011, 06:45 AM
#39
I think it has some timing. It may not be dynamic or have turbo or boost or all of that jazz but I think it does just have a certain degree of advance to it. (Cant swear to that)
Just for the record I dont have a problem with Bill or anyone else doing what they have to for a good class at their home track. I DO think that some folks make worse decisions than others about what might improve the VTA racing experience. I cant really blame Bill or his local racers for going with more speed on a bigger track.
The USVTA has given a lot of racers a new world. Realizing that this is not just something your local club is doing. This is far and wide. Having a template that is recognized club to club is priceless.
Just for the record I dont have a problem with Bill or anyone else doing what they have to for a good class at their home track. I DO think that some folks make worse decisions than others about what might improve the VTA racing experience. I cant really blame Bill or his local racers for going with more speed on a bigger track.
The USVTA has given a lot of racers a new world. Realizing that this is not just something your local club is doing. This is far and wide. Having a template that is recognized club to club is priceless.
03-08-2011, 11:31 AM
#40
It dont have any timing ,well it didnt make a difference on a 21.5 @5.2 fdr. We tried #1 to #8 with no performance gain my gtb car was 3mph faster and could notice it thru mid range also not just full throttle. Motor timing didnt change anything either except for launch off the line and it was miute
03-08-2011, 03:10 PM
#42
what about its just not legal...simple and easy....
but if I was making a decision....it would be cause the LRP Sphere TC/Spec, SPX/reverse,zero all have pretty much the same case...whats to stop somebody from just changing case?....but they have their reason, and for whatever it is.....let it go, its just a esc....
also, for all these guy/tracks that think 25.5 isnt the way to go.....Im so sorry for the VTA program....I can show you over the last 3 1/2 years how we kept trying several different varibles to the rules to try and get it right...we had all kinds of house rules like you wouldnt believe, and most worked....everything from 24mph, to 17.5 lipo with "magic" gear chart...it was a good ride.
but if you really want your VTA class to thrive and grow, get on the National rules set...it will save you and your racers alot of time and money in the long haul....it leaves no guess work....and trust me, you are going to lose racers...but you will gain twice as many down the road....here is my address to the VTA guys at my local track...
UPDATE.....
it has become an issue that has been around our Trans-am class for almost three and half years. We have always came up with a variation of the national rules to some degree, some of its my fault as well as others. I push and promote this class to the highest mountain top, I love this class and really beleive in it and what it can do for on-road r/c racing and r/c hobby as a whole.
It has always been a corner stone to the on-road racing since its beginning, it breathe life back into the on-road program. But it has its faults and short-commings as well, but most of that is resting on the fact that it was a new class.
We have several different reason why we made our own house rules, to fit the majority of what ppl have already. The issue is that TA lost its (feel) along the way. Well I have been "PROMISED" we have a stone that has rules that wont change anytime soon.(5years).
The current rules that the USVTA has really worked, it takes away all the B.S. that has plagued on-road for the last 2 years. This will finally give us as close as possible spec class to race without all the extra headaches that comes with alot of other racing formats. Example, no tire of the week,motor of the month, esc of the mid year, or chassis of the year.
As much as I would like to find a mistake in Rob Kings rules for the USVTA, I cant,...Im running a full USVTA car, and I think its the best its been since the 4 cell 27t days. And I know some ppl dont like the idea of buying stuff they may never use again, and I understand that, BUT...its so cheap..its as cheap as the class has ever been.
So after serious consideration, I am proud to annouce this event as an OFFICIAL USVTA EVENT....this is just a step into some much greater things down the line. I know we will have some pm to answer, and Im ready. Just keep in mind guys to what Im willing to do to make this event the BEST it can be. So if you are in need of getting USVTA legal esc,motor, or driver figure PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE...let me know..and its not an issue for me to work with you to make sure your team and yourself is legal for this event and many to come.
So to sum all that up is this.....
VTA Thunder 1000 Enduro will run USVTA rules
ESC are as low as $50 new
25.5 SS motors are $55
Trade-in programs are available
Legal USVTA combos for $100
Ballastic 25.5 stator for $35
Im here to help ANYBODY to get you legal
FYI....but if you are finacially straight...you know who you are, the ones with the $100 pit lights and $500 chassis and own a hobbyshop/track..dont even think about it...j/k...Ill help you too, just with alot of attitude...lol
also...UPDATE on sponsor prizes...we will be giving away ALOT, from Lipos to bodies to tires and rims, to just about anything in between. The sponsors have matched my gifts and more is coming in. I would like to see everyone get something, and its looking like enough to go around
Thanks again to all of you for making this event truly great...
Myron Kinnard
now did some have a pissy, yep...but we have steady new racers coming in all the time...and Im happy with the choice. You can go back in the VTA thread and read it, and my thoughts on it...I was totally against it, I had one of the 1st 25.5 stators to test, and I thought it SUCKED...but I had the wrong combo....and was out of the "spirtit", by running an SPX...
but now that we have switched over...its better than its ever been...you will gain so much more by staying on the nats rules.....your attendance will drop,maybe...but it will return.... we have had as many as 50 VTA racers at one time..., dont think we didnt lose some along the way, with rules changing and such...and to be honest, I was afraid of losing any racers, but once I made it official and showed how easy and inexpensive it was...we have only 2 racers running 21.5's...and they are newbies...and it worked out great
but you have to make a stand, and do whats best for your track...and in the long run...running the USVTA rules will be that.
I hope you all the best with the class...VTA is the best thing going in on-road racing PERIOD.... and its getting better everday tracks and events have the class and give us some true FUN,FAIR,CHEAP...racing...thats our saying anywho
just a opinion....long one at that..and no Im not proof reading this...Im doing it from my cell phone...good luck Myron Battman Kinnard
but if I was making a decision....it would be cause the LRP Sphere TC/Spec, SPX/reverse,zero all have pretty much the same case...whats to stop somebody from just changing case?....but they have their reason, and for whatever it is.....let it go, its just a esc....
also, for all these guy/tracks that think 25.5 isnt the way to go.....Im so sorry for the VTA program....I can show you over the last 3 1/2 years how we kept trying several different varibles to the rules to try and get it right...we had all kinds of house rules like you wouldnt believe, and most worked....everything from 24mph, to 17.5 lipo with "magic" gear chart...it was a good ride.
but if you really want your VTA class to thrive and grow, get on the National rules set...it will save you and your racers alot of time and money in the long haul....it leaves no guess work....and trust me, you are going to lose racers...but you will gain twice as many down the road....here is my address to the VTA guys at my local track...
UPDATE.....
it has become an issue that has been around our Trans-am class for almost three and half years. We have always came up with a variation of the national rules to some degree, some of its my fault as well as others. I push and promote this class to the highest mountain top, I love this class and really beleive in it and what it can do for on-road r/c racing and r/c hobby as a whole.
It has always been a corner stone to the on-road racing since its beginning, it breathe life back into the on-road program. But it has its faults and short-commings as well, but most of that is resting on the fact that it was a new class.
We have several different reason why we made our own house rules, to fit the majority of what ppl have already. The issue is that TA lost its (feel) along the way. Well I have been "PROMISED" we have a stone that has rules that wont change anytime soon.(5years).
The current rules that the USVTA has really worked, it takes away all the B.S. that has plagued on-road for the last 2 years. This will finally give us as close as possible spec class to race without all the extra headaches that comes with alot of other racing formats. Example, no tire of the week,motor of the month, esc of the mid year, or chassis of the year.
As much as I would like to find a mistake in Rob Kings rules for the USVTA, I cant,...Im running a full USVTA car, and I think its the best its been since the 4 cell 27t days. And I know some ppl dont like the idea of buying stuff they may never use again, and I understand that, BUT...its so cheap..its as cheap as the class has ever been.
So after serious consideration, I am proud to annouce this event as an OFFICIAL USVTA EVENT....this is just a step into some much greater things down the line. I know we will have some pm to answer, and Im ready. Just keep in mind guys to what Im willing to do to make this event the BEST it can be. So if you are in need of getting USVTA legal esc,motor, or driver figure PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE...let me know..and its not an issue for me to work with you to make sure your team and yourself is legal for this event and many to come.
So to sum all that up is this.....
VTA Thunder 1000 Enduro will run USVTA rules
ESC are as low as $50 new
25.5 SS motors are $55
Trade-in programs are available
Legal USVTA combos for $100
Ballastic 25.5 stator for $35
Im here to help ANYBODY to get you legal
FYI....but if you are finacially straight...you know who you are, the ones with the $100 pit lights and $500 chassis and own a hobbyshop/track..dont even think about it...j/k...Ill help you too, just with alot of attitude...lol
also...UPDATE on sponsor prizes...we will be giving away ALOT, from Lipos to bodies to tires and rims, to just about anything in between. The sponsors have matched my gifts and more is coming in. I would like to see everyone get something, and its looking like enough to go around
Thanks again to all of you for making this event truly great...
Myron Kinnard
now did some have a pissy, yep...but we have steady new racers coming in all the time...and Im happy with the choice. You can go back in the VTA thread and read it, and my thoughts on it...I was totally against it, I had one of the 1st 25.5 stators to test, and I thought it SUCKED...but I had the wrong combo....and was out of the "spirtit", by running an SPX...
but now that we have switched over...its better than its ever been...you will gain so much more by staying on the nats rules.....your attendance will drop,maybe...but it will return.... we have had as many as 50 VTA racers at one time..., dont think we didnt lose some along the way, with rules changing and such...and to be honest, I was afraid of losing any racers, but once I made it official and showed how easy and inexpensive it was...we have only 2 racers running 21.5's...and they are newbies...and it worked out great
but you have to make a stand, and do whats best for your track...and in the long run...running the USVTA rules will be that.
I hope you all the best with the class...VTA is the best thing going in on-road racing PERIOD.... and its getting better everday tracks and events have the class and give us some true FUN,FAIR,CHEAP...racing...thats our saying anywho
just a opinion....long one at that..and no Im not proof reading this...Im doing it from my cell phone...good luck Myron Battman Kinnard
03-08-2011, 03:54 PM
#43
Well said Myron. 
03-08-2011, 04:04 PM
#44
what about its just not legal...simple and easy....
but if I was making a decision....it would be cause the LRP Sphere TC/Spec, SPX/reverse,zero all have pretty much the same case...whats to stop somebody from just changing case?....but they have their reason, and for whatever it is.....let it go, its just a esc....
also, for all these guy/tracks that think 25.5 isnt the way to go.....Im so sorry for the VTA program....I can show you over the last 3 1/2 years how we kept trying several different varibles to the rules to try and get it right...we had all kinds of house rules like you wouldnt believe, and most worked....everything from 24mph, to 17.5 lipo with "magic" gear chart...it was a good ride.
but if you really want your VTA class to thrive and grow, get on the National rules set...it will save you and your racers alot of time and money in the long haul....it leaves no guess work....and trust me, you are going to lose racers...but you will gain twice as many down the road....here is my address to the VTA guys at my local track...
UPDATE.....
it has become an issue that has been around our Trans-am class for almost three and half years. We have always came up with a variation of the national rules to some degree, some of its my fault as well as others. I push and promote this class to the highest mountain top, I love this class and really beleive in it and what it can do for on-road r/c racing and r/c hobby as a whole. ...
but if I was making a decision....it would be cause the LRP Sphere TC/Spec, SPX/reverse,zero all have pretty much the same case...whats to stop somebody from just changing case?....but they have their reason, and for whatever it is.....let it go, its just a esc....
also, for all these guy/tracks that think 25.5 isnt the way to go.....Im so sorry for the VTA program....I can show you over the last 3 1/2 years how we kept trying several different varibles to the rules to try and get it right...we had all kinds of house rules like you wouldnt believe, and most worked....everything from 24mph, to 17.5 lipo with "magic" gear chart...it was a good ride.
but if you really want your VTA class to thrive and grow, get on the National rules set...it will save you and your racers alot of time and money in the long haul....it leaves no guess work....and trust me, you are going to lose racers...but you will gain twice as many down the road....here is my address to the VTA guys at my local track...
UPDATE.....
it has become an issue that has been around our Trans-am class for almost three and half years. We have always came up with a variation of the national rules to some degree, some of its my fault as well as others. I push and promote this class to the highest mountain top, I love this class and really beleive in it and what it can do for on-road r/c racing and r/c hobby as a whole. ...
)
03-08-2011, 04:46 PM
#45
I have been told directly by Rob King that all LRP Sphere esc's have timing added. I personally own two LRP Sphere TC's. I personaly accept Rob's reason and decision.
Am I slower with a GTB/25.5 than an LRP Sphere 25.5? Yes. Do I think this combination is exactly what I had in mind performance and parrity wise when I started the Vintage Trans-Am progam in October of 2007 at Trackside Hobbies? Yes, absolutly!
See oroginal Trans-Am post:
http://www.rctech.net/forum/wisconsi...ing-class.html
a quote to share from that post:
"The goal of the Vintage Trans-Am class is to bring back awesome looking cars in a cost controlled racing format where the result is just plain FUN. The speed of the specification package brings close, competitive racing for Sportsman, Intermediate and experienced hobbyist that rewards driver development."
Am I slower with a GTB/25.5 than an LRP Sphere 25.5? Yes. Do I think this combination is exactly what I had in mind performance and parrity wise when I started the Vintage Trans-Am progam in October of 2007 at Trackside Hobbies? Yes, absolutly!
See oroginal Trans-Am post:
http://www.rctech.net/forum/wisconsi...ing-class.html
a quote to share from that post:
"The goal of the Vintage Trans-Am class is to bring back awesome looking cars in a cost controlled racing format where the result is just plain FUN. The speed of the specification package brings close, competitive racing for Sportsman, Intermediate and experienced hobbyist that rewards driver development."