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Old 03-06-2011, 07:48 AM   #1
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Has there ever been any discussion on allowing more ESC's to be added to the VTA class? The only ESC that is readilly available is the Novak Havoc and I have been personally involved with three of them not working. When you are on a budget and in the middle of the racing season, and your ESC catches on fire your season ends quickly.

Dont get me wrong, I understand things happen. But when you have to purchase a new ESC because yours is out of warranty, the cheaper price you pay for a approved ESC that is available, doesnt seem so cheap when you have to buy it multiple times.

I would rather pay a little more to get better reliability than to pay over and over.

Just my two cents worth.
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:15 AM   #2
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Man i been running a gtb i have had since 04ish. And have ran motors from 3.5 up 2 25.5 with gearing to keep motors about 160-170 deg with out any issues. dont realy see any problems with the approved esc lists but would like to see some more older esc's like the lrp sphere
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:41 AM   #3
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We offer comprehensive replacement programs for non-warranty items---a Trade-In Program for currently mfg items, and a Legacy Upgrade Program program for discontinued products. In addition, our GTBs and GTB2s are approved for USVTA racing. If you have burned up 3 escs, you may need assistance with your batteries, gearing or soldering.

Things that may cause serious ESC damage:

…poor soldering/cold solder joints
…defective battery cell, or pack
...exceeding esc's input voltage
…low "C"-rated pack
…over-gearing
…weak rotor (demagnetized)
…shorted motor coil
...reverse polarity
…loose connectors
…defective servo (motor)
...damaged esc capacitor/module
...water damage/corrosion

Generally, when an esc burns up, the assumption is that it is a defective controller; it is always tempting to blame the item that is melting down. However, many other problems in your over-all set up may cause excessive current to be drawn through the esc causing this complete melt down. Continuing to run any electronic product after it has started showing signs of distress will generally completely destroy the item.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayh50 View Post
Has there ever been any discussion on allowing more ESC's to be added to the VTA class? The only ESC that is readilly available is the Novak Havoc and I have been personally involved with three of them not working. When you are on a budget and in the middle of the racing season, and your ESC catches on fire your season ends quickly.

Dont get me wrong, I understand things happen. But when you have to purchase a new ESC because yours is out of warranty, the cheaper price you pay for a approved ESC that is available, doesnt seem so cheap when you have to buy it multiple times.

I would rather pay a little more to get better reliability than to pay over and over.

Just my two cents worth.
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:43 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
Man i been running a gtb i have had since 04ish. And have ran motors from 3.5 up 2 25.5 with gearing to keep motors about 160-170 deg with out any issues. dont realy see any problems with the approved esc lists but would like to see some more older esc's like the lrp sphere
I think that the sphere is on the approved USVTA list.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:53 AM   #5
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The sphere is not on the list. The GTB2, LRP AI reverse and the SpeedPassion Cirtix are available for sure.

The list won't change unless new products which conform to our standards are introduced.
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Old 03-06-2011, 11:06 AM   #6
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I've wondered about the sphere as well. What is it about the sphere that doesn't conform to the standard?
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Old 03-06-2011, 01:47 PM   #7
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+1 for never having had a problem with a GTB , Havoc or Havoc Pro. Maybe you could give us some particulars as to how the system was run?? What gearing, which motor, was motor timing adjusted, etc. ? As a club director I'm curious. We've been running VTA and GT for the last 3 years and almost all of our drivers use some combination of Havoc or GTB with 25.5's, 17.5's and 21.5's. We've never had one go bad and that's saying alot considering most of our drivers are newbies with no experience beyond the club. If anybody could ,or should, blow one up...it's them. Help us out with some info.
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Old 03-06-2011, 03:56 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
+1 for never having had a problem with a GTB , Havoc or Havoc Pro. Maybe you could give us some particulars as to how the system was run?? What gearing, which motor, was motor timing adjusted, etc. ? As a club director I'm curious. We've been running VTA and GT for the last 3 years and almost all of our drivers use some combination of Havoc or GTB with 25.5's, 17.5's and 21.5's. We've never had one go bad and that's saying alot considering most of our drivers are newbies with no experience beyond the club. If anybody could ,or should, blow one up...it's them. Help us out with some info.
I was running a Havoc esc with a new ballistic 21.5 motor, Spektum DX3S radio and reciever, 2s lipo 5000 mah 50 c rating, motor was at all factory settings with no changes being made. Motor temps were around 100 degrees after 8 minute runs. I am new to the racing part of RC, But have been involved off and on since the early eighties. So I do know a few things. When the event happened I had just plugged in the battery and turned on the esc.
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Old 03-06-2011, 04:03 PM   #9
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We ran a sphere comp today one of the origional i think but it sucked. We couldnt get it to do anything to keep up with my gtb /21.5 and we were running identical cars . I set up both cars and drove both cars and its like the sphere only uses the timing sensor up to a curtain point cause after 50% throttle u cant tell if u advanced or retarted the timing any.
Makes me thing the timing sence on the sphere dont work the same as others. Could be the reason for it not being aloud
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Old 03-06-2011, 04:28 PM   #10
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Novaktwo, I understand the installation and running of the components in my TC4. All components were installed by my local hobby shop and had been running well for over a month, so I really dont think it was caused poor installation. The battery was a new 2s lipo 5000mah 50c, servo and reciever were both used in other vehicles before and after the event, so I believe something in the esc or capaciter went bad. I am not blaming anyone for what happened, I am just a little disappointed in Novaks Customer Service, when my sons and his friends new Novak Ballistic Motors and ESCs failed right out of the box. When the hobby shop owner contacted Novak for help because the the esc's would not go into one touch programming he was told lets try the one touch programming anyway and wouldnt listen to the the Hobby shop owner when he said he had already tried. In my opinion the people at Novak could use some training in listening and customer relations.
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Old 03-06-2011, 04:42 PM   #11
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I've had and run GTBs for probably 6 years and have only had one failure. Recently I had one go bad in a 4 hour/1 car vta race. There was one section of the track that was very fast and tight. I hit the barrier a half a dozen times which stopped the car dead. Eventually the car had symptoms of a bad sensor wire or sensor board. It would just loose track of the rotor position. I couldn't figure out why it would work some of the time but fail other times. After trying numerous motors and wires with no help, I eventually took the speed control apart and unsoldered the sensor wire connector. I was shocked and amazed about what I found. 2 of the pins in the connector were broken at the base where it went through the circut board. Every time I plugged in a motor it would remake the connection but then vibrate loose and fail. I replaced the 2 pins and resoldered everything and It has been working perfectly ever since. Other than that, In my opinion, they are one of the best speed controls ever made. And no, I'm not sponsored by novak or an one else for that matter although it would be nice!!!!
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Old 03-06-2011, 05:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayh50 View Post
Novaktwo, I understand the installation and running of the components in my TC4. All components were installed by my local hobby shop and had been running well for over a month, so I really dont think it was caused poor installation. The battery was a new 2s lipo 5000mah 50c, servo and reciever were both used in other vehicles before and after the event, so I believe something in the esc or capaciter went bad. I am not blaming anyone for what happened, I am just a little disappointed in Novaks Customer Service, when my sons and his friends new Novak Ballistic Motors and ESCs failed right out of the box. When the hobby shop owner contacted Novak for help because the the esc's would not go into one touch programming he was told lets try the one touch programming anyway and wouldnt listen to the the Hobby shop owner when he said he had already tried. In my opinion the people at Novak could use some training in listening and customer relations.
I think you're doing the right thing here by letting NovakTwo know about this situation. Clearly many more people have had good to great success with Novak products and there's no way to guarantee what , if any, other situations may have caused the failures. Through Novak's continued presence here on the forum, it's clear they would like to know what caused the failures too and also clear that they want to show a high level of customer support. Think of it as a double edged sword. You can't ask THIS many people to commit to your product and then have shoddy customer service or sell products that don't live up to the standard. We're a tough bunch....sell us on it and let us down and we'll never let you forget it.
To get back on track with this thread though, Rob K has answered the question about the Sphere. At this point, anybody involved and enjoying VTA will simply tell you that there's an obvious reason for VTA not allowing a particular piece of electronics BUT the other part of that equation is that Novak is the ONLY electronics company that's stepped up to the bat and supported the effort to such a great degree. In my book that means an awful lot.
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Old 03-07-2011, 04:31 AM   #13
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After dealing with Novak's customer service a few times, I'm surprised by your less than positive experience. They were very helpful and courteous to me.

I have been using Novak products for quite a while and have never had a failure that wasn't self induced. Frankly, when you look at the environment that these things are asked to perform in, it's a wonder they last as long as they do. How many G's do you think they absorb in a good impact? It's like taking a cell phone and throwing on the ground over and over and expecting it to never break. Pretty amazing if you ask me.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:46 AM   #14
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ROAR VTA rules allow any speedo and any 21.5...talk your track into using that rule set...
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:16 AM   #15
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ROAR VTA rules allow any speedo and any 21.5...talk your track into using that rule set...
And that's why VTA as a ROAR program is a dead horse. Do yourself and the hobby a favor by adopting the NATIONALLY ACCEPTED rule set. If you deviate from it you're simply diluting the effort and creating a "bastard child" situation similar to what happened with RCGT which is now the poster child for failed programs that started out with such strength and possibility to really help the growth of the hobby. Now it's just a flavor of the week program that varies on a club by club basis. USGT is now the best effort to get it back on track but the damage is done and only the future will tell whether it recovers to the level of VTA, which is probably the most stable program in all of RC.
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