Super GT Plus (SGT+): 21.5/zero GT Racing
10-31-2010, 01:04 PM
#46
Tech Master
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Discuss all you want--but unless your racing--why should it matter to you? Keyboard racers don't accomplish anything--come on out and RACE with us and see what really works where the "rubber meets the road" and then create all the speculation you want.
Let's go race!!
10-31-2010, 01:13 PM
#47
10-31-2010, 01:16 PM
#48
Oh, and btw, reenmachine said this at the beginning of this thread:
Feel free to comment, but please keep it civil.
10-31-2010, 01:55 PM
#49
Guys, calm down. Someone discussing rules on a forum doesn't mean the rules are changing, that they are ruining the class, etc. It's just a discussion.
Jimmy, Super GT is currently run at CAM and WCRC under exactly the same rules. I called it Super GT+ up here at CAM because we allow 2WD cars as well and WCRC was reluctant to. That's all the '+' meant.
Lots of guys (myself included) have gone brushless with the FF03. 2011 TCS is brushless in the FF03, albeit a unique Tamiya spec. It's a choice. There are silver can classes for those who want to run the FF03 with a silver can.
Nobody has to go brushless with their FF03. They just have to if they want to run in this class.
I haven't had a problem -- perhaps you could elaborate. I put on a 79t spur and a 54t pinion and that was all there was to it -- it even fit under the gear cover.
There must be some confusion there. SGT/SGT+ is not an "All Tamiya" class. Any 1/10 TC chassis is legal.
Also, silver cans aren't TCS legal anymore.
Again, this is not an FF03 class. It's a TC class in which FF03s are permitted to run.
My concern with taking FF03 and going brushless is NOT a cost effective alternative. The FF03 (non pro) comes with a motor. Why toss $15-20 away? in favor of having to spend $80 for a motor? ESC's can arguably be the same in price but from what I see a brushed ESC is near half the cost?
Nobody has to go brushless with their FF03. They just have to if they want to run in this class.
Also, silver cans aren't TCS legal anymore.
Again, this is not an FF03 class. It's a TC class in which FF03s are permitted to run.
10-31-2010, 05:48 PM
#50
I wish you guys the best out there on the west coast. I wish I could participate in this but unfortunately its a long frikkin walk from Georgia. I would like to see RCGT survive but in many areas it doesnt seem to be holding up. F1 went through the same thing. I guess everything comes in cycles. I liked RCGT because it was a straight up TC class but with SCCA style livery, and slower than the regular TC classes. I would like this class(SGT+) for the same reason. I think something like it needs to be around. Something like SGT+ or VTA, because we need something slower and easier for the new guy to get into. Something that wont nuke the noob, but is still entertaining after you have been in it for a while.
I know that after you have so many variants of a name people start to get confused, and there are little nuances in the rules that are hard to keep track of. One track might be doing something similar but just differrent enough to be confusing. If I remember correctly VTA was started simultaneously at two differrent locations with slightly differrent rules at almost the same time. Then after a while they formed a unified set of rules and with it the USVTA organization.
I know that after you have so many variants of a name people start to get confused, and there are little nuances in the rules that are hard to keep track of. One track might be doing something similar but just differrent enough to be confusing. If I remember correctly VTA was started simultaneously at two differrent locations with slightly differrent rules at almost the same time. Then after a while they formed a unified set of rules and with it the USVTA organization.
10-31-2010, 10:15 PM
#52
Worrying about TCS does not make sense as it reduces the # of chassis available for the class tremendously!! This is a 21.5 BRUSHLESS class---designed for REALISTIC looking race cars and slower to help rookie racers. You don't need to go out and buy a new car for this class---there's a huge # of older TC chassis that work great for this class---that can be purchased for far less then a new Tamiya car.
The new FFO3 cars have been allowed to run--because they also have the correct bodies usually, and have been found to be competitive if setup properly. BUT---they already have their OWN class to run in. Changing SUPER GT is not necessary for them to remain TCS legal--they have a class designed for them.
This class has shown great response and is growing---STOP tinkering with it before it has a chance to grow bigger. CHANGE is not always best---leave it alone! Simple cheap esc's and 21.5 motors make you competitive if you learn to drive. Solaris tires last forever, I've got some with over 40 runs on them still working fine!
T
The new FFO3 cars have been allowed to run--because they also have the correct bodies usually, and have been found to be competitive if setup properly. BUT---they already have their OWN class to run in. Changing SUPER GT is not necessary for them to remain TCS legal--they have a class designed for them.
This class has shown great response and is growing---STOP tinkering with it before it has a chance to grow bigger. CHANGE is not always best---leave it alone! Simple cheap esc's and 21.5 motors make you competitive if you learn to drive. Solaris tires last forever, I've got some with over 40 runs on them still working fine!
T
10-31-2010, 10:37 PM
#53
Pete,
Thanks for opening my eyes to the 2011 TCS rules. FF03 and others should have remained "silver can" IMO unless Tamiya figures they are going to start putting these motors/esc's in their kits. Bad move for the new guy wanting to get involved.
My advocacy is for the new guy who wants to race. If the LHS can't get a package together in most cases for under $300 ready to go race at the beginning level the class and hobby (in this case on road) will not grow. The attitudes of yesterday have past in this sector now we need to get the clubs and tracks to start catering to the "new guys".
Case in point:
Hemet Competition Raceway. Last Friday night club race 146 entries. (Generally 100ish +/- 10)
Why?:
No one needs a transponder, you race the class that fits your car and skill.
Spec class? No
Spec tires? No
Whining? Some but that is a given and its mostly about how they weren't marshalled fast enough.
These guys can go to ANY off road track and race in their respective class.
On road now a days has too many classes and rules from track to track.
I.E. FF03/SGT+
2011- (now reading the TCS rules
TCS- Tamiya only ESC motor w/ B3 tires (Given it's twice a year)
Cal/OC Circuit- silver can, solaris tires
TQ- silver can, open tires
WCRC & Cam- 21.5, no boost, solaris tires
Again just my $.02
Thanks for opening my eyes to the 2011 TCS rules. FF03 and others should have remained "silver can" IMO unless Tamiya figures they are going to start putting these motors/esc's in their kits. Bad move for the new guy wanting to get involved.
My advocacy is for the new guy who wants to race. If the LHS can't get a package together in most cases for under $300 ready to go race at the beginning level the class and hobby (in this case on road) will not grow. The attitudes of yesterday have past in this sector now we need to get the clubs and tracks to start catering to the "new guys".
Case in point:
Hemet Competition Raceway. Last Friday night club race 146 entries. (Generally 100ish +/- 10)
Why?:
No one needs a transponder, you race the class that fits your car and skill.
Spec class? No
Spec tires? No
Whining? Some but that is a given and its mostly about how they weren't marshalled fast enough.
These guys can go to ANY off road track and race in their respective class.
On road now a days has too many classes and rules from track to track.
I.E. FF03/SGT+
2011- (now reading the TCS rules
TCS- Tamiya only ESC motor w/ B3 tires (Given it's twice a year)
Cal/OC Circuit- silver can, solaris tires
TQ- silver can, open tires
WCRC & Cam- 21.5, no boost, solaris tires
Again just my $.02
10-31-2010, 10:47 PM
#54
Guys, calm down. Someone discussing rules on a forum doesn't mean the rules are changing, that they are ruining the class, etc. It's just a discussion.
Jimmy, Super GT is currently run at CAM and WCRC under exactly the same rules. I called it Super GT+ up here at CAM because we allow 2WD cars as well and WCRC was reluctant to. That's all the '+' meant.
Jimmy, Super GT is currently run at CAM and WCRC under exactly the same rules. I called it Super GT+ up here at CAM because we allow 2WD cars as well and WCRC was reluctant to. That's all the '+' meant.
OK but as asked before what other FF03 classes are being offered to fulfill silver can?
10-31-2010, 11:00 PM
#55
At CAM, everyone running FF03 has been more than willing, actually eager, to run 21.5 vs. silver can. We actually have a silver can class that follows the same rules as old RCGT (bodies, X-Patterns) but with sc motors. FF03 could run there as well.
If enough FF03s come around that there's call for a dedicated class, we'll consider the rules at that time. Doubt it would be SC, based on the known preferences of our racers. Until then, we're more than happy with 21.5/zero.
If enough FF03s come around that there's call for a dedicated class, we'll consider the rules at that time. Doubt it would be SC, based on the known preferences of our racers. Until then, we're more than happy with 21.5/zero.
11-01-2010, 07:43 AM
#56
At CAM, everyone running FF03 has been more than willing, actually eager, to run 21.5 vs. silver can. We actually have a silver can class that follows the same rules as old RCGT (bodies, X-Patterns) but with sc motors. FF03 could run there as well.
If enough FF03s come around that there's call for a dedicated class, we'll consider the rules at that time. Doubt it would be SC, based on the known preferences of our racers. Until then, we're more than happy with 21.5/zero.
If enough FF03s come around that there's call for a dedicated class, we'll consider the rules at that time. Doubt it would be SC, based on the known preferences of our racers. Until then, we're more than happy with 21.5/zero.
11-25-2010, 07:02 AM
#57
First post updated.
Spec tire is the Hard Solaris Spec Premount on the spoked rim.
This is now identical to WCRC Super GT with the exception of 2WD cars being permitted (the "plus").
They will run together, but be scored separately, just like the way it's done in many real 1:1 race series. Not only are you battling for class victory, but for the overall win as well!
FF cars are strongly encouraged to run FF bodies in the interest of scale realism as well as to help the drivers and spectators follow the action.
Spec tire is the Hard Solaris Spec Premount on the spoked rim.
This is now identical to WCRC Super GT with the exception of 2WD cars being permitted (the "plus").
They will run together, but be scored separately, just like the way it's done in many real 1:1 race series. Not only are you battling for class victory, but for the overall win as well!
FF cars are strongly encouraged to run FF bodies in the interest of scale realism as well as to help the drivers and spectators follow the action.
thanks
11-25-2010, 08:02 AM
#58
11-25-2010, 01:18 PM
#60
If you're local to CAM or passing through the area, Martin has lots in stock at Brooker Tracker RC in Newbury Park, with both black and white rims.
You can call and he'll ship as well.
www.brookertrackerrc.com
You can call and he'll ship as well.
www.brookertrackerrc.com