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Old 10-31-2010, 02:04 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by JohnWinn View Post
So no one can discuss ideas? I don't see anyone trying to make immediate changes to SGT; People are giving opinions and others are commenting...Kind of the standard discourse you find on the internet.
My experience for this and most internet forums---the people doing most of the discussion and arguing aren't the racers IN THE CLASS!! Discuss all you want--but unless your racing--why should it matter to you? Keyboard racers don't accomplish anything--come on out and RACE with us and see what really works where the "rubber meets the road" and then create all the speculation you want.
Let's go race!!
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:13 PM   #47
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Discuss all you want--but unless your racing--why should it matter to you? Keyboard racers don't accomplish anything
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...whatever you say man...
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:16 PM   #48
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Oh, and btw, reenmachine said this at the beginning of this thread:

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Feel free to comment, but please keep it civil.
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:55 PM   #49
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Guys, calm down. Someone discussing rules on a forum doesn't mean the rules are changing, that they are ruining the class, etc. It's just a discussion.

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Originally Posted by Racecrafter View Post
Pete,

Have the Road Runners contacted other So Cal tracks or race organizers to put these rules in effect for the SGT and SGT+ classes?
Jimmy, Super GT is currently run at CAM and WCRC under exactly the same rules. I called it Super GT+ up here at CAM because we allow 2WD cars as well and WCRC was reluctant to. That's all the '+' meant.

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My concern with taking FF03 and going brushless is NOT a cost effective alternative. The FF03 (non pro) comes with a motor. Why toss $15-20 away? in favor of having to spend $80 for a motor? ESC's can arguably be the same in price but from what I see a brushed ESC is near half the cost?
Lots of guys (myself included) have gone brushless with the FF03. 2011 TCS is brushless in the FF03, albeit a unique Tamiya spec. It's a choice. There are silver can classes for those who want to run the FF03 with a silver can.

Nobody has to go brushless with their FF03. They just have to if they want to run in this class.

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Also I think that a FDR rule needs to come into effect. The FF03 is just not equipped to handle the rediculous pinion to spur ratios without major (very fluent hobbiest) modifications and extra parts.
I haven't had a problem -- perhaps you could elaborate. I put on a 79t spur and a 54t pinion and that was all there was to it -- it even fit under the gear cover.

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Staying with "silver cans" in this "All Tamiya" class anyway (for now) will allow it not only to stay low cost but also TCS legal.
There must be some confusion there. SGT/SGT+ is not an "All Tamiya" class. Any 1/10 TC chassis is legal.

Also, silver cans aren't TCS legal anymore.

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Perhaps if this class gets more manufacturers involved then move to a 21.5/zero motor rule. But for now while the class is growing....

Just my $1.389
Again, this is not an FF03 class. It's a TC class in which FF03s are permitted to run.
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Old 10-31-2010, 06:48 PM   #50
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I wish you guys the best out there on the west coast. I wish I could participate in this but unfortunately its a long frikkin walk from Georgia. I would like to see RCGT survive but in many areas it doesnt seem to be holding up. F1 went through the same thing. I guess everything comes in cycles. I liked RCGT because it was a straight up TC class but with SCCA style livery, and slower than the regular TC classes. I would like this class(SGT+) for the same reason. I think something like it needs to be around. Something like SGT+ or VTA, because we need something slower and easier for the new guy to get into. Something that wont nuke the noob, but is still entertaining after you have been in it for a while.

I know that after you have so many variants of a name people start to get confused, and there are little nuances in the rules that are hard to keep track of. One track might be doing something similar but just differrent enough to be confusing. If I remember correctly VTA was started simultaneously at two differrent locations with slightly differrent rules at almost the same time. Then after a while they formed a unified set of rules and with it the USVTA organization.
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Old 10-31-2010, 07:21 PM   #51
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I don't see a need to complicate the SGT+ class with gear limitations either.
Keeping it simple seems to work fine.
jmho.

Silvercans...meh
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Old 10-31-2010, 11:15 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by timmig View Post
Worrying about TCS does not make sense as it reduces the # of chassis available for the class tremendously!! This is a 21.5 BRUSHLESS class---designed for REALISTIC looking race cars and slower to help rookie racers. You don't need to go out and buy a new car for this class---there's a huge # of older TC chassis that work great for this class---that can be purchased for far less then a new Tamiya car.
The new FFO3 cars have been allowed to run--because they also have the correct bodies usually, and have been found to be competitive if setup properly. BUT---they already have their OWN class to run in. Changing SUPER GT is not necessary for them to remain TCS legal--they have a class designed for them.
This class has shown great response and is growing---STOP tinkering with it before it has a chance to grow bigger. CHANGE is not always best---leave it alone! Simple cheap esc's and 21.5 motors make you competitive if you learn to drive. Solaris tires last forever, I've got some with over 40 runs on them still working fine!
T
My point was solely for FF03/ SGT+ not for SGT.
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Old 10-31-2010, 11:37 PM   #53
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Pete,

Thanks for opening my eyes to the 2011 TCS rules. FF03 and others should have remained "silver can" IMO unless Tamiya figures they are going to start putting these motors/esc's in their kits. Bad move for the new guy wanting to get involved.

My advocacy is for the new guy who wants to race. If the LHS can't get a package together in most cases for under $300 ready to go race at the beginning level the class and hobby (in this case on road) will not grow. The attitudes of yesterday have past in this sector now we need to get the clubs and tracks to start catering to the "new guys".

Case in point:

Hemet Competition Raceway. Last Friday night club race 146 entries. (Generally 100ish +/- 10)

Why?:

No one needs a transponder, you race the class that fits your car and skill.

Spec class? No

Spec tires? No

Whining? Some but that is a given and its mostly about how they weren't marshalled fast enough.

These guys can go to ANY off road track and race in their respective class.

On road now a days has too many classes and rules from track to track.

I.E. FF03/SGT+

2011- (now reading the TCS rules

TCS- Tamiya only ESC motor w/ B3 tires (Given it's twice a year)

Cal/OC Circuit- silver can, solaris tires

TQ- silver can, open tires

WCRC & Cam- 21.5, no boost, solaris tires


Again just my $.02
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Old 10-31-2010, 11:47 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reenmachine View Post
Guys, calm down. Someone discussing rules on a forum doesn't mean the rules are changing, that they are ruining the class, etc. It's just a discussion.



Jimmy, Super GT is currently run at CAM and WCRC under exactly the same rules. I called it Super GT+ up here at CAM because we allow 2WD cars as well and WCRC was reluctant to. That's all the '+' meant.
I under stand and thats why I was wondering about Cal/ OC Circuit if they or TQ raceway was asked about accommodating these rules/class.


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Originally Posted by reenmachine View Post
Lots of guys (myself included) have gone brushless with the FF03. 2011 TCS is brushless in the FF03, albeit a unique Tamiya spec. It's a choice. There are silver can classes for those who want to run the FF03 with a silver can.
Silver can classes at Cam for FF03?

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Nobody has to go brushless with their FF03. They just have to if they want to run in this class.
Again what other class do you have?



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Originally Posted by reenmachine View Post
I haven't had a problem -- perhaps you could elaborate. I put on a 79t spur and a 54t pinion and that was all there was to it -- it even fit under the gear cover.
That wasn't enough gear for my FF03 and even with a paltry "54" the motor screws had to be changed and the motor plate remachined (dremeled) to reach the spur for a correct "racing ratio". Most guys are using Slash motor screws to fit the pinions close enough to the motor plate to reach the spur.



Quote:
Originally Posted by reenmachine View Post
There must be some confusion there. SGT/SGT+ is not an "All Tamiya" class. Any 1/10 TC chassis is legal.

Also, silver cans aren't TCS legal anymore.
(Finally got to read the 2011 TCS rules DOH!)



Quote:
Originally Posted by reenmachine View Post
Again, this is not an FF03 class. It's a TC class in which FF03s are permitted to run.
OK but as asked before what other FF03 classes are being offered to fulfill silver can?
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Old 11-01-2010, 12:00 AM   #55
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At CAM, everyone running FF03 has been more than willing, actually eager, to run 21.5 vs. silver can. We actually have a silver can class that follows the same rules as old RCGT (bodies, X-Patterns) but with sc motors. FF03 could run there as well.

If enough FF03s come around that there's call for a dedicated class, we'll consider the rules at that time. Doubt it would be SC, based on the known preferences of our racers. Until then, we're more than happy with 21.5/zero.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:43 AM   #56
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At CAM, everyone running FF03 has been more than willing, actually eager, to run 21.5 vs. silver can. We actually have a silver can class that follows the same rules as old RCGT (bodies, X-Patterns) but with sc motors. FF03 could run there as well.

If enough FF03s come around that there's call for a dedicated class, we'll consider the rules at that time. Doubt it would be SC, based on the known preferences of our racers. Until then, we're more than happy with 21.5/zero.
YGPM
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Old 11-25-2010, 08:02 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reenmachine View Post
First post updated.

Spec tire is the Hard Solaris Spec Premount on the spoked rim.

This is now identical to WCRC Super GT with the exception of 2WD cars being permitted (the "plus").

They will run together, but be scored separately, just like the way it's done in many real 1:1 race series. Not only are you battling for class victory, but for the overall win as well!

FF cars are strongly encouraged to run FF bodies in the interest of scale realism as well as to help the drivers and spectators follow the action.
Where can the Hard Solaris Spec's be ordered from ?

thanks
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Old 11-25-2010, 09:02 AM   #58
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Where can the Hard Solaris Spec's be ordered from ?

thanks
Nexus Racing has them in stock

http://www.nexusracing.com/index.php...a&filter_id=90
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:17 AM   #59
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Thanks for the info Dave!

Tires have been ordered.
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Old 11-25-2010, 02:18 PM   #60
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If you're local to CAM or passing through the area, Martin has lots in stock at Brooker Tracker RC in Newbury Park, with both black and white rims.

You can call and he'll ship as well.

www.brookertrackerrc.com
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