HPI RCGT
06-24-2010, 11:43 AM
#31
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Kevin, this is one of those things that I'm glad people are still talking about. There were many positive comments made toward limiting the batteries. Cost was the primary concern. Most drivers know the market pretty well. The 30c figure was thought to be the limit for the less expensive battery options. Once you go above that,cost seems to go up rapidly. So the question becomes "How can we help people enter the class at a reasonable cost based on ALL the necessary equipment".
On the other hand, you make a valid point. In the big picture, there's a point where by trying to solve one issue you create a bigger issue.
I'd like to ask the question openly again and see if this is worth revisiting.
Are we making to much of the "C" rating issue and actually making RCGT less accessible ?
Should we consider adopting a simple 5000mah limit?
On the other hand, you make a valid point. In the big picture, there's a point where by trying to solve one issue you create a bigger issue.
I'd like to ask the question openly again and see if this is worth revisiting.
Are we making to much of the "C" rating issue and actually making RCGT less accessible ?
Should we consider adopting a simple 5000mah limit?
Really what should be happening is we should be pushing ROAR to make the sportsman class RCGT like....meaing using the Sportsman rules just open the bodies to all the cool looking bodies. Then I really think the class would take off. Too many people are looking at RCGT and think its only a HPI promoted class.
Also the C rating is really meaningless with the limited ESC's and 17.5 or 21.5 motors. You are never going to pull out a high load to take advantage of the C rating. I think there is too much weight placed on the C rating of packs. Racers are always about numbers and when we see a higher number in a battery pack we assume its instantly better. But the problem is there isn’t a real way to check this C rating over 30 or 40C. I mean really I can start to sell packs at 100C rating but if no one has a machine to check that they can handle 100C it’s never going to be proven wrong and guys would be lining up to buy them because of the higher number.
06-24-2010, 01:08 PM
#32
I'll let you tackle ROAR to push for changes to Sportsman. 
As for C ratings, I agree. Or maybe I'm just one of those sportsman drivers that would never see the minute difference.
As for adopting the ROAR battery list. I won't advocate that since I firmly believe there are way to many decent batteries out there that anyone on a budget should have access to. You're right about newbies who move up to ROAR racing classes and if they're thinking that far ahead then they should buy whats appropriate. As for existing racers...if they already have ROAR approved batteries then why would they have to buy another for RCGT ? You confused me on that one.
I speak as one of those sportsman drivers on a budget looking for what I need and can afford. All my packs are Zippy 4000's. Never had a problem in over a year and they cost $25 a piece. The ROAR list is a good reference and anybody needing those batteries should follow it. But there doesn't seem to be any good argument to start implementing a lot of ROAR guidelines when RCGT isn't a ROAR program.
If a change to the battery rule needs to be done, then lets make it for the sake of bettering RCGT and not keep looking to make RCGT part of anything else.
So does anybody have any particular issues with opening the battery rule up and simply making it "Any Lipo 2S up to a maximum of 5000mah. Hard case packs are highly suggested"
As for C ratings, I agree. Or maybe I'm just one of those sportsman drivers that would never see the minute difference.
As for adopting the ROAR battery list. I won't advocate that since I firmly believe there are way to many decent batteries out there that anyone on a budget should have access to. You're right about newbies who move up to ROAR racing classes and if they're thinking that far ahead then they should buy whats appropriate. As for existing racers...if they already have ROAR approved batteries then why would they have to buy another for RCGT ? You confused me on that one.
I speak as one of those sportsman drivers on a budget looking for what I need and can afford. All my packs are Zippy 4000's. Never had a problem in over a year and they cost $25 a piece. The ROAR list is a good reference and anybody needing those batteries should follow it. But there doesn't seem to be any good argument to start implementing a lot of ROAR guidelines when RCGT isn't a ROAR program.
If a change to the battery rule needs to be done, then lets make it for the sake of bettering RCGT and not keep looking to make RCGT part of anything else.
So does anybody have any particular issues with opening the battery rule up and simply making it "Any Lipo 2S up to a maximum of 5000mah. Hard case packs are highly suggested"
06-24-2010, 01:20 PM
#33
Really, the one main thing I was interested in was adopting the ROAR Sportsman ESC list and we did that, and the tire issue comes in second. Everything else is small potatoes, performance-wise.
Last on-road race I ran one heat with a ThunderPower 5200mAh 50C pack and the other with a Tekin 3400mAh 23C pack. The lighter weight negated the performance difference and I ran very similar times.
06-24-2010, 01:22 PM
#34
I'll let you tackle ROAR to push for changes to Sportsman.
As for C ratings, I agree. Or maybe I'm just one of those sportsman drivers that would never see the minute difference.
As for adopting the ROAR battery list. I won't advocate that since I firmly believe there are way to many decent batteries out there that anyone on a budget should have access to. You're right about newbies who move up to ROAR racing classes and if they're thinking that far ahead then they should buy whats appropriate. As for existing racers...if they already have ROAR approved batteries then why would they have to buy another for RCGT ? You confused me on that one. I speak as one of those sportsman drivers on a budget looking for what I need and can afford. All my packs are Zippy 4000's. Never had a problem in over a year and they cost $25 a piece. The ROAR list is a good reference and anybody needing those batteries should follow it. But there doesn't seem to be any good argument to start implementing a lot of ROAR guidelines when RCGT isn't a ROAR program.
If a change to the battery rule needs to be done, then lets make it for the sake of bettering RCGT and not keep looking to make RCGT part of anything else.
So does anybody have any particular issues with opening the battery rule up and simply making it "Any Lipo 2S up to a maximum of 5000mah. Hard case packs are highly suggested"
As for C ratings, I agree. Or maybe I'm just one of those sportsman drivers that would never see the minute difference.
As for adopting the ROAR battery list. I won't advocate that since I firmly believe there are way to many decent batteries out there that anyone on a budget should have access to. You're right about newbies who move up to ROAR racing classes and if they're thinking that far ahead then they should buy whats appropriate. As for existing racers...if they already have ROAR approved batteries then why would they have to buy another for RCGT ? You confused me on that one. I speak as one of those sportsman drivers on a budget looking for what I need and can afford. All my packs are Zippy 4000's. Never had a problem in over a year and they cost $25 a piece. The ROAR list is a good reference and anybody needing those batteries should follow it. But there doesn't seem to be any good argument to start implementing a lot of ROAR guidelines when RCGT isn't a ROAR program.
If a change to the battery rule needs to be done, then lets make it for the sake of bettering RCGT and not keep looking to make RCGT part of anything else.
So does anybody have any particular issues with opening the battery rule up and simply making it "Any Lipo 2S up to a maximum of 5000mah. Hard case packs are highly suggested"
06-24-2010, 01:26 PM
#35
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Say a racer has 5200 or 5600 something over 5000 packs and they want to race RCGT they now have to buy a lower "quality" so they will think....to race in RCGT. Why not just make it ANY Hard Case 7.2V lipo pack....and be done? This way it works every direction.
06-24-2010, 01:31 PM
#36
Now wasn't that easy !!
1. Bodies: Any 190mm or 200mm realistic GT type body (no touring class racing bodies such as Stratus or Mazda 6). Molded kit wings or aftermarket wings are highly suggested. Lexan wings must be of proportionate size. Lexan wings are not allowed in Concours.
2. Tires: HPI X-Pattern tires, part #s 4790, 4490 and 4495 are the official spec tire of RCGT. Alternate tires may be used at the race organizer's discretion, but all HPI supported RCGT events will use the x-pattern tires.
3. Inserts: For HPI X-Pattern tires the stock insert must be used. All alternate tires choices may use any insert. Race organizer may define specific choices.
4. Wheels: Any REALISTIC spoke type 26mm wheel may be used. No aero dish or lightweight racing wheels allowed.
5. Motors/Esc's: Any 21.5 or 17.5 brushless motor/esc as shown on the ROAR Sportsman list. In addition, the Speed Passion Cirtix 21.5 and 17.5 are allowed.
6. Chassis: Any 1/10 scale all wheel drive touring car chassis. Minimum weight requirement is 1475 grams.
7. Batteries: Any Lipo 2S packs up to a maximum of 5000mah. Hard case packs are highly suggested. (revised)
We all hope the revised rules will help everybody continue to enjoy the RCGT program. I should also say that we'll do our best to consider and make revisions when necessary. We can't plan for everything but we'll try and catch up to them as quickly as possible. Thanks again to all of you !!!!
1. Bodies: Any 190mm or 200mm realistic GT type body (no touring class racing bodies such as Stratus or Mazda 6). Molded kit wings or aftermarket wings are highly suggested. Lexan wings must be of proportionate size. Lexan wings are not allowed in Concours.
2. Tires: HPI X-Pattern tires, part #s 4790, 4490 and 4495 are the official spec tire of RCGT. Alternate tires may be used at the race organizer's discretion, but all HPI supported RCGT events will use the x-pattern tires.
3. Inserts: For HPI X-Pattern tires the stock insert must be used. All alternate tires choices may use any insert. Race organizer may define specific choices.
4. Wheels: Any REALISTIC spoke type 26mm wheel may be used. No aero dish or lightweight racing wheels allowed.
5. Motors/Esc's: Any 21.5 or 17.5 brushless motor/esc as shown on the ROAR Sportsman list. In addition, the Speed Passion Cirtix 21.5 and 17.5 are allowed.
6. Chassis: Any 1/10 scale all wheel drive touring car chassis. Minimum weight requirement is 1475 grams.
7. Batteries: Any Lipo 2S packs up to a maximum of 5000mah. Hard case packs are highly suggested. (revised)
We all hope the revised rules will help everybody continue to enjoy the RCGT program. I should also say that we'll do our best to consider and make revisions when necessary. We can't plan for everything but we'll try and catch up to them as quickly as possible. Thanks again to all of you !!!!
06-24-2010, 01:35 PM
#37
No thanks on the ROAR thing....
Say a racer has 5200 or 5600 something over 5000 packs and they want to race RCGT they now have to buy a lower "quality" so they will think....to race in RCGT. Why not just make it ANY Hard Case 7.2V lipo pack....and be done? This way it works every direction.
Say a racer has 5200 or 5600 something over 5000 packs and they want to race RCGT they now have to buy a lower "quality" so they will think....to race in RCGT. Why not just make it ANY Hard Case 7.2V lipo pack....and be done? This way it works every direction.
06-24-2010, 01:41 PM
#38
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06-24-2010, 03:28 PM
#41
+1 on the revised battery rule. All my packs are TP 5000 40c, 'cept for my dedicated F1 stick pack.
And about the lexan wing being proportionate. Lot of grey area. Depends on one's perpective. Imagine the perspective of a drifter.
How about lexan wings must be cut down to a maximum 1/2" hight from main element to top of lip/gurney?
15mm?
And about the lexan wing being proportionate. Lot of grey area. Depends on one's perpective. Imagine the perspective of a drifter.
How about lexan wings must be cut down to a maximum 1/2" hight from main element to top of lip/gurney?
15mm?
06-24-2010, 03:52 PM
#42
What's your guys input on FF cars? What if your club doesn't have enough people to run a FF class? Should they be allowed to run with the 4wd?
I wanted some ideas so this new breed can co-exist, and better spread the whole RC = scale idea. Here is my input:
1. Bodies: Same rule applies, but the FF bodies tend to be narrower (around 180mm) to keep the scale aspect true. FF cars must use FF bodies.
2. Tires/inserts/wheels: same rules apply
3. Motor/esc/batt: same rules
4. Chassis: minimum weight to be 1325 to compensate for the traction disadvantage.
What you guys think?
I wanted some ideas so this new breed can co-exist, and better spread the whole RC = scale idea. Here is my input:
1. Bodies: Same rule applies, but the FF bodies tend to be narrower (around 180mm) to keep the scale aspect true. FF cars must use FF bodies.
2. Tires/inserts/wheels: same rules apply
3. Motor/esc/batt: same rules
4. Chassis: minimum weight to be 1325 to compensate for the traction disadvantage.
What you guys think?
06-24-2010, 04:31 PM
#43
FREAKAH, Pete and I did discuss that. Really, don't get to hung up on that. Its actually pretty simple. If you have a tech station, its up to them or the race director to decide if a wing is to large. If you dont tech, use the realistic wings as a guide. Even a decent drift wing is better than some of those barn door lexan wings. Pretty hard to compare most lexans with drift wings though....the standoffs on the lexan are usually fairly low. Its mostly that deep cut, large dimension, TC style wing we're trying to get rid of.
Inpuressa, If your club allows the FF cars to run, thats fine. But on the national level I doubt it'll happen. Heck, Tamiya doesn't even mix them with their GT classes. I can't see establishing a second set of rules for a one design chassis.
Inpuressa, If your club allows the FF cars to run, thats fine. But on the national level I doubt it'll happen. Heck, Tamiya doesn't even mix them with their GT classes. I can't see establishing a second set of rules for a one design chassis.
06-24-2010, 04:37 PM
#44
FREAKAH, Pete and I did discuss that. Really, don't get to hung up on that. Its actually pretty simple. If you have a tech station, its up to them or the race director to decide if a wing is to large. If you dont tech, use the realistic wings as a guide. Even a decent drift wing is better than some of those barn door lexan wings. Pretty hard to compare most lexans with drift wings though....the standoffs on the lexan are usually fairly low. Its mostly that deep cut, large dimension wing that we're trying to get rid of.
Inpuressa, If your club allows the FF cars to run, thats fine. But on the national level I doubt it'll happen. Heck, Tamiya doesn't even mix them with their GT classes. I can't see establishing a second set of rules for a one design chassis.
Inpuressa, If your club allows the FF cars to run, thats fine. But on the national level I doubt it'll happen. Heck, Tamiya doesn't even mix them with their GT classes. I can't see establishing a second set of rules for a one design chassis.