CRC / Advanced Electronics Black Diamond Speedo - Ban due to cost??
11-30-2009, 09:22 AM
#16
Tech Apprentice
Banning a Speedo
In all forms of racing new technology has come and initially makes it more expensive. You have a choice you don't have to purchase the latest and greatest. Everyone has choice to make. In a few months a there will be another speed control that is just a fast or faster. No to ban buy and use what you want as long as it available to the public.
11-30-2009, 09:24 AM
#17
If the new Novak ESC or LRP, or a firmware upgraded Tekin can match the AE ESC, will anyone care about the AE ESC any more? How many LRP ESCs have there been in the past 3 years?
I'm sure that the nitro guys all use $150 .21 motors instead of the $500 - $700 tuned Novarossis, RBs, etc. that might last a half season, right?
Why stop with ESCs? Why does everyone need $125+ 40-50C LiPo packs? Why doesn't everyone just use the 28C sport packs (which were the top packs last year)? Some people complaining about a $100 more expensive ESC are the guys that a fresh set of rubber tires every run at big races.
Everyone wants to get that perceived edge, real or not.
This ESC has the advantage, for now. Maybe the new Novak will match it?
I'm sure that the nitro guys all use $150 .21 motors instead of the $500 - $700 tuned Novarossis, RBs, etc. that might last a half season, right?
Why stop with ESCs? Why does everyone need $125+ 40-50C LiPo packs? Why doesn't everyone just use the 28C sport packs (which were the top packs last year)? Some people complaining about a $100 more expensive ESC are the guys that a fresh set of rubber tires every run at big races.
Everyone wants to get that perceived edge, real or not.
This ESC has the advantage, for now. Maybe the new Novak will match it?
Most of the better drivers will pay for "the need for speed". Others will just complain.
11-30-2009, 10:00 AM
#21
Doesn't this all go back to the principals of spec class? everyone can run 3s lipos and get 10.5 performance out of a 17.5, but they don't? why? its not in the rules, we could all change the winds in our motors and very rarely would this be caught, why don't we? brushed stock had locked timing for a reason, and it seems that it going to be the only way to balance this equation. These ESCs should exist, but for open classes. Take it all away, timing ramp, boost, etc, 30 dg locked timing from the ESC, not sure about the endbell, it would make sense to lock that too.
But this will never happen. All this really is, is a legal as yet way to cheat, the results are exactly the same as other cheating methods. It's like the RIAA trying to police the entire internet, just because it's easy and you CAN do it, doesn't make it right.
Interim solution, let us non AE users run a 13.5 motor in 17.5 class, no we're even again
But this will never happen. All this really is, is a legal as yet way to cheat, the results are exactly the same as other cheating methods. It's like the RIAA trying to police the entire internet, just because it's easy and you CAN do it, doesn't make it right.
Interim solution, let us non AE users run a 13.5 motor in 17.5 class, no we're even again
11-30-2009, 10:01 AM
#22
Haven't we learned anything these past years ? A new speed control is coming that will be equal to or better then the BD AND cheaper ....... all you have to do is wait.
11-30-2009, 10:31 AM
#23
Tech Master
iTrader: (13)
The word I got at the Champs is that Horizon will start distributing the Advanced ESC in the near future. The cost should come down quite a bit as well. The numbers I heard were that Horizon's cost will be around $180, and after they add their mark up, we should see street prices around $220-250. The first batch ESCs are so expensive due to having to rush production to get them here in the US (things like very expensive air freight rush shipping from Europe to the US, etc). Like every new technology from cell phones to blu-ray players to HDTV, the first top of the line units will cost the most and the price will drop as numbers go up. Also, the competition will eventually catch up and you'll get the same performance from Tekin, KO, GM, LRP, Novak, etc.
The only real question is how bad to you want to be competitive right now vs waiting a little while? If you want to play, you gotta pay. The fastest people at the Champs were willing to do whatever it took to get their hands on a Black Diamond esc, to run at the top. The people who complained were the ones who weren't willing or waited too long.
The only real question is how bad to you want to be competitive right now vs waiting a little while? If you want to play, you gotta pay. The fastest people at the Champs were willing to do whatever it took to get their hands on a Black Diamond esc, to run at the top. The people who complained were the ones who weren't willing or waited too long.
they'll get in line cost wise with the KO's and the stock sxx eventually.
did anyone think of the supply/demand for the first batch? why not make some more money but the rush did bump the price also.
11-30-2009, 10:40 AM
#26
You won't be when a $400 speedo comes out for off-road that has some sort of "Traction Control" in it... I don't believe off-road is immune for this, as if an ESC can h.p. up for on-road, I'm sure it can be programmed/designed to h.p. down for off-road (i.e. traction control). Someone is probably already working on it.
Last edited by jpeck; 11-30-2009 at 11:08 AM.
11-30-2009, 10:53 AM
#27
the Tekin had their share of glory or I should say selling like a hot cakes days, let AE have their own! or novak with their new ESC.
AE must had their work done by not following or copy others and just having a unique Idea of it (some ppl called that a cheating) that no one figured it out even after debut at IIC.
The Tekin or LRP had many month to catch up after this year IIC but they failed to do that at cleveland.
let hard working brilliant ideas get paid.
next time a product you supportting or getting sponsered can be banned, then lets see what is your excuse is.
we should ban the word Ban from our racing.
AE must had their work done by not following or copy others and just having a unique Idea of it (some ppl called that a cheating) that no one figured it out even after debut at IIC.
The Tekin or LRP had many month to catch up after this year IIC but they failed to do that at cleveland.
let hard working brilliant ideas get paid.
next time a product you supportting or getting sponsered can be banned, then lets see what is your excuse is.
we should ban the word Ban from our racing.
11-30-2009, 10:54 AM
#28
Body provided deck lid spoilers allowed (not wings). No additional skirts or raised/extended wings or air control surfaces allowed. Body must be trimmed at body trim lines. Full rear bumper required. It is highly preferred that bodies are detailed in race type livery in period-correct paint schemes. Fluorescent colors, wild graphics, chromes and non-period correct paint schemes are frowned upon. All cars must have a number on the hood, both doors and trunklid. Wheel covers of any type are NOT allowed.
All cars must include a driver figure consisting of at least a head and shoulders.
Tire & Wheel Specifications:
The only tires allowed are HPI tire part #4793 front and #4797 rear, using stock tire inserts provided with tire and any HPI Vintage wheels designed to fit these tires. All other tires and/or part numbers are illegal. Five or Eight spoke wheels available in various colors. 0mm offset front wheels and 6mm offset rear wheels are intended for 26mm width fronts and 31mm width rear tires. 8-spoke Vintage wheels from #3805 through #3814, 5-spoke Vintage wheels from #3815 through #3822 and Vintage stock car wheels from #3854 through #3860, Vintage Wheel CC Type #33472 and #33473, Vintage Wheel DTP Type #33474 and #33475 are all legal wheels.
Grinding of tire tread is NOT permitted. Sanding of mold seam to remove seam is allowed. HPI Vintage Slicks and HPI Vintage Performance Tires are not allowed. Tire traction compounds are at the discretion of the track. No other altering, changing or softening of the tire is allowed. No "double stuffing" of foam inserts allowed—only single stock vintage tire inserts are allowed.
Chassis Specification:
Four Wheel Drive touring car chassis only. Any era or brand 4wd chassis is allowed. An Excel spreadsheet gear ratio and final drive ratio calculator for most touring car chassis is available here.
Motor Specifications:
Option 1: 27-turn ROAR stock motor: No FDR limit, bearings are not allowed.
Option 2: 17.5 brushless: Motor timing advance is allowed. 12.5 mm rotor diameter maximum (no "tuning" rotors are allowed).
Option 3: 21.5 brushless with 2C LiPo: Novak SS21.5 Pro brushless motor (pn:3421)or Ballistic 21.5 (pn:3621) ONLY combined with any ROAR-approved hard-cased 2C 7.4v LiPo pack up to and including 5000 mAh capacity. Novak motor is the ONLY motor allowed at this time. All house track rules regarding LiPo usage apply. Final drive ratio is to not exceed 4.2. Motor timing advance is allowed. 12.5 mm rotor diameter maximum (no "tuning" rotors are allowed).
Suggested gearing FDR recommendations:
- 27t brushed/4-cell: 5.4 - 5.7 FDR
- 17.5 brushless/4-cell: 3.5 - 3.7 FDR
- 21.5 brushless/LiPo: 4.2 - 4.6 FDR
Non-Binding Informational Suggestion: Current testing shows that speed controls set to 10 degrees timing advance, with no additional "Boost" or "Turbo" functions, or profile #1 on LRP speed controls are very close in speed. This is a suggestion for those tracks having a disparity between cars equipped with high timing ESCs and those without. *THIS IS NOT A CURRENT RULE*
Battery Specifications:
4 cell NiCd or NiMh batteries, 4600 mAh limit
2 cell ROAR-approved LiPo hard cased, 5000 mAh limit (21.5 brushless motor option ONLY)
Ride Height Specification:
Minimum ride height is 5mm.
Weight Specification:
Minimum 1450g in race-ready trim
Race Specification:
- 5 minute qualifiers
- 8 minute mains
- Absolutely NO IFMAR-type starts. All heats and mains should be straight-up starts, with random sorts for each heat. Non random sorts should shuffle starting order for each heat.
Optional Main Variations:
- 12-20 car A-mains, depending on car counts.
- Invert qualifying order based on random hat pull (top 6-10 cars).
- "LeMans" type starts where all cars are lined up on an angle to the racing line in order.
- Run track in reverse rotation for mains.
- Rolling starts
MOST IMPORTANTLY: If it's not in the rules, and does not encompass the spirit of slower, controlled racing with realistic looking cars, consider it illegal. This is called the "Spirit of VTA" Rule. The class is based on slower, equal playing field competition with less traction, minimal aerodynamic aids and mostly older carpet racing technology. The final objective is close, fair, wheel-to-wheel racing for all. All decisions of the race promoter or track owner are final.
11-30-2009, 11:04 AM
#30
Tech Adept
The word I got at the Champs is that Horizon will start distributing the Advanced ESC in the near future. The cost should come down quite a bit as well. The numbers I heard were that Horizon's cost will be around $180, and after they add their mark up, we should see street prices around $220-250. The first batch ESCs are so expensive due to having to rush production to get them here in the US (things like very expensive air freight rush shipping from Europe to the US, etc). Like every new technology from cell phones to blu-ray players to HDTV, the first top of the line units will cost the most and the price will drop as numbers go up. Also, the competition will eventually catch up and you'll get the same performance from Tekin, KO, GM, LRP, Novak, etc.
The higher price of this ESC has more to do with the Euro to Dollar exchange rate than someone trying to cash in on this product. Trust me CRC is doing everything they can to keep the price down.