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Old 11-30-2009, 08:42 AM   #1
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Default CRC / Advanced Electronics Black Diamond Speedo - Ban due to cost??

Are we at a crossroads in RC? I see a lot of people in several different threads suggesting this speed control be banned at their clubs or certain races/classes. The main driver for the banning seems to be based on the cost. I don't know how I feel about this. Where would it stop? Why is it OK to spend $500 on a chassis but not on a speed control? If this speed control only cost $300 would people want it banned?

So if this speed control really is a must have to win (not 100% sure that is the case), I do think that kinda stinks that it costs so much. It has the potential to damage the hobby further by making the cost of a competitive setup go up about $150-$200. That said, if it fits all the rules why should it be banned?

Just curious what the thoughts are on this.
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Old 11-30-2009, 08:52 AM   #2
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I like, like youself, am not sure what I think about this.
Of course we all want the hobby to move forward but.....

I think cost is the single most discouraging factor faced by anybody involved both newbies and established racers alike.

How disheartening is it to spend megabucks on the latest hot poop item only to find it superseded within weeks.

How would I feel if a year ago I had spent $500 on an Mi3 only to find it is now 4 (!) models old.

I know its the same old chestnut coming up again and again but the problem does seem to be getting worse to me.
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Old 11-30-2009, 08:57 AM   #3
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It seems to me if it is banned only situational it will just make the problem worse. Will I need to have two speed controls. One for races that allow it and one for races that don't? Will people stop attending certain events based on if it is allowed or not? Just seems like it could get really messy.
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Old 11-30-2009, 08:58 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
Are we at a crossroads in RC? I see a lot of people in several different threads suggesting this speed control be banned at their clubs or certain races/classes. The main driver for the banning seems to be based on the cost. I don't know how I feel about this. Where would it stop? Why is it OK to spend $500 on a chassis but not on a speed control? If this speed control only cost $300 would people want it banned?

So if this speed control really is a must have to win (not 100% sure that is the case), I do think that kinda stinks that it costs so much. It has the potential to damage the hobby further by making the cost of a competitive setup go up about $150-$200. That said, if it fits all the rules why should it be banned?

Just curious what the thoughts are on this.
We the obvious answer to me is no, it should not be banned. Hell a Futaba 4PK is a $500 radio...we should ban that too?

Anyone can go out and buy a Havoc or budget ESC if they'd like...and can race it. HOWEVER, unlike the brushed days, where the average joe racer could run a $99 ESC against a $150 ESC and do just fine...I think with the technology in high end ESC's it may/will create an larger divide between budget ESC's and racing ESC's. That's the problem...

But from what I read in the Black Diamond thread, Horizon Hobby may start to import these and the hopes are that the price will come down around where the other top racing ESC's are priced.
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Last edited by PitNamedGordie; 11-30-2009 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:16 AM   #5
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One things about electronics is. Wait 5 minuets and a copy cat will be out at half the cost.
I hear the CRC ESC is super fast but I have yet to hear any talk on someone to talk about there test run.
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:28 AM   #6
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I have one coming. No it should not be banned. I am using a Tekin RX8 now in the touring car as it is the only one that won't thermal. It is a bit overweight. Alas the LRP TC edition would not thermal also but the new SXX will not hold up. Cost will come down when Stormer gets a hold of it.

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Old 11-30-2009, 09:35 AM   #7
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If there was a vote I would say NO BAN. I know this ESC is tops right now but do remember.....(and I have not been in the hobby to long) but you still have to drive the car that the speedo is in, some of you talk about it like virtually all you have to do is slap this thing in and your an A main winner all the time. I know guys that are still not running esc's with boost still putting it down on the guys that are. I personally keep seeing certain boostable controllers not boosting at one moment and they are having to be reset pretty often because of this.....I personally do not think it is needed, but it def. has its advantages like more bottom end than the non-boost speedo's due to having to gear up a little but I def. am not running any hotter and seems to be just as fast with a more experienced driver than myself wheeling my car...... so let it ride. Look at it this way.. I think it is an extreme luxury item like comparing a 3 series BMW to a M series BMW then to like a Dinan M3
big big difference in all these but all still have the potential

just my .2c
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:45 AM   #8
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I think it should be looked at, and no "Knee Jerk " reaction be made. A $200 (Street Price ) limit would be a good place to start.

Gordie, a 4pk is not going to increase your laptimes .5 or whatever is being claimed.. The issue here is that if this Speedo is the real deal, then it will be REQUIRED to be competetive, AND it costs roughly twice that of other speed controllers.
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:47 AM   #9
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I agree about not having a knee jerk response to this. That said, if some kind of standard were to be set hopefully it is before everyone goes out and spends $350 on a new speed control and not after.
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:51 AM   #10
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No to a ban....Funny thing is several of them where sold after the race this weekend....going rate was $300. I actually got a RS for a sweet deal for myself....I'd say TEkin will step up and get a "VER 201 Post-Cleveland" and for me that will be fine....there have Always been high dollar speedos...most of the original GTB-LRP's sold for $229 a year or two ago and the Keyence(sp) was way expensive for a brushed .... We're talking race cars and not toy cars at this level. Money will always play the bigger part of the equation in Non- Spec racing...
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Old 11-30-2009, 09:52 AM   #11
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The word I got at the Champs is that Horizon will start distributing the Advanced ESC in the near future. The cost should come down quite a bit as well. The numbers I heard were that Horizon's cost will be around $180, and after they add their mark up, we should see street prices around $220-250. The first batch ESCs are so expensive due to having to rush production to get them here in the US (things like very expensive air freight rush shipping from Europe to the US, etc). Like every new technology from cell phones to blu-ray players to HDTV, the first top of the line units will cost the most and the price will drop as numbers go up. Also, the competition will eventually catch up and you'll get the same performance from Tekin, KO, GM, LRP, Novak, etc.

The only real question is how bad to you want to be competitive right now vs waiting a little while? If you want to play, you gotta pay. The fastest people at the Champs were willing to do whatever it took to get their hands on a Black Diamond esc, to run at the top. The people who complained were the ones who weren't willing or waited too long.
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:01 AM   #12
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If the new Novak ESC or LRP, or a firmware upgraded Tekin can match the AE ESC, will anyone care about the AE ESC any more? How many LRP ESCs have there been in the past 3 years?

I'm sure that the nitro guys all use $150 .21 motors instead of the $500 - $700 tuned Novarossis, RBs, etc. that might last a half season, right?

Why stop with ESCs? Why does everyone need $125+ 40-50C LiPo packs? Why doesn't everyone just use the 28C sport packs (which were the top packs last year)? Some people complaining about a $100 more expensive ESC are the guys that a fresh set of rubber tires every run at big races.

Everyone wants to get that perceived edge, real or not.

This ESC has the advantage, for now. Maybe the new Novak will match it?
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:08 AM   #13
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The other thing I heard at the Champs was that Tekin will not be able to catch up to the AE speedo with just a firmware update. They will have to change the board inside (at a minimum) to get the ESC to do what they need. If this is true, my guess would be that the current microcontroller on the board does not have enough memory to hold larger rpm/load/timing maps. (the electronic geeks out there will understand). Hopefully they will have an update/exchange program for current RS/Pro users. Of course, even if they don't, its easy to sell off existing RS/Pros to people who race offroad, where none of this speedo sillyness matters.
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:10 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by TimPotter View Post
I think it should be looked at, and no "Knee Jerk " reaction be made. A $200 (Street Price ) limit would be a good place to start.

Gordie, a 4pk is not going to increase your laptimes .5 or whatever is being claimed.. The issue here is that if this Speedo is the real deal, then it will be REQUIRED to be competetive, AND it costs roughly twice that of other speed controllers.
I was being sarcastic.

But if you really want to look at cost control for racing then I think it should be for all equipment...or at least for more than just the ESC. Chassis, motor, batteries...No?

Didn't there used to be a $40 limit on brushed stock motors? Is there still such a thing?
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:17 AM   #15
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I was being sarcastic.

But if you really want to look at cost control for racing then I think it should be for all equipment...or at least for more than just the ESC. Chassis, motor, batteries...No?

Didn't there used to be a $40 limit on brushed stock motors? Is there still such a thing?
I answered my own question:

ROAR Rules...

8.5.3.2 Approved stock motors must be commercially available through hobby distributors and
hobby dealers nationwide. Maximum retail Brushed price of $46, including any after
market tuning and preparation.


So are we looking for ROAR to implement something like this for ESC's?
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