The reason for the lack of mod drivers...
....
06-19-2009, 03:27 AM
#242
Tech Apprentice
For me, I'd say it would have to be a cost thing. I used to run mod, when most people did in the UK, just before everyone started going from 1/10th wide to scale saloon.
You could get slaughtered on some tracks if you didn't have the right motor, and at £50+ per motor, that was expensive racing.
Now with classes for 19turn / 10.5br and 27turn / 13.5br, there will be differences in speed and power, but not so substantial that you can't make changes quickly enough thoughout the day.
I'm currently running a 1/14th Recoil, and range of motors can be a little silly, but then becuase there doesn't seem to be a standard sized motor shaft for micros at the mo', the range of pinions is limited too, which can be as good as bad, but, it does seem that the fewer choices you have, the more it comes down to driver skill, which can only be a good thing.
You could get slaughtered on some tracks if you didn't have the right motor, and at £50+ per motor, that was expensive racing.
Now with classes for 19turn / 10.5br and 27turn / 13.5br, there will be differences in speed and power, but not so substantial that you can't make changes quickly enough thoughout the day.
I'm currently running a 1/14th Recoil, and range of motors can be a little silly, but then becuase there doesn't seem to be a standard sized motor shaft for micros at the mo', the range of pinions is limited too, which can be as good as bad, but, it does seem that the fewer choices you have, the more it comes down to driver skill, which can only be a good thing.
06-19-2009, 03:49 AM
#243
Allthough I do agree that the power available is too much nowadays, I still dont get it why anyone could be thinking that 2S lipo 9.5t in a touring is fast.
On a carpet track, yes it is fast and its just as fast as a mod car.
But outside, I tried it last year, 2S 9.5t is way too slow, I got bored of it after about 5 packs and put in a 4.5t again. However I do think the 4.5t is too much on 2s and 6.5 would be a nice motor to drive.
1/10 Pan and 1/12th however is a completely different thing but lowering the voltage to get the power down isnt any good.
What do you think will happen when they make touring/pancars 1S lipo, someone will bring out a 1.5t motor or faster, and make a good guess what current that will pull out of your Lipo, it'll be bad in under 20 packs and everything will cook.
If you want something to go slower, limit the motor or battery capacity, but that would prolly be too easy.
On a carpet track, yes it is fast and its just as fast as a mod car.
But outside, I tried it last year, 2S 9.5t is way too slow, I got bored of it after about 5 packs and put in a 4.5t again. However I do think the 4.5t is too much on 2s and 6.5 would be a nice motor to drive.
1/10 Pan and 1/12th however is a completely different thing but lowering the voltage to get the power down isnt any good.
What do you think will happen when they make touring/pancars 1S lipo, someone will bring out a 1.5t motor or faster, and make a good guess what current that will pull out of your Lipo, it'll be bad in under 20 packs and everything will cook.
If you want something to go slower, limit the motor or battery capacity, but that would prolly be too easy.
06-19-2009, 06:20 AM
#244
Tech Apprentice
but does the speed really matter all that much, when the dirver in front of you has the same speed potential, the driver behind you has the same potential etc.
I've lapped and been lapped by people running similar type motors to me. I also run mini-z cars which are 1/28th and use slot car motors. They're a lot slower, but because the track is smaller, they seem just as fast, so it's all relative really.
Remember though, in which ever series you race, it tends to be the drivers who decide the rules, so if you don't like the rules as they are, put in an ammendment at the next agm.
I've lapped and been lapped by people running similar type motors to me. I also run mini-z cars which are 1/28th and use slot car motors. They're a lot slower, but because the track is smaller, they seem just as fast, so it's all relative really.
Remember though, in which ever series you race, it tends to be the drivers who decide the rules, so if you don't like the rules as they are, put in an ammendment at the next agm.
06-19-2009, 06:22 AM
#245
I just can't believe what I'm reading.
Every form of real motorsports has a class of cars that are way overpowered, F1, Motogp, Lemans, even supercross. It's that way for a reason, to seperate the men from the boys.
In 17.5 or 13.5 you come out of a corner and just mash the throttle. Wow, fun. In mod the way the throttle is applied is all part of a fast lap time. It adds another dimension to the racing and that's why I like it. Offroad guys have to use throttle control, why would anyone want to take that away from onroad?
There are a lot of reasons why good drivers don't move up to mod; too expensive, or they want to race what they're friends race, or want to stay in a class where they know they can win instead of moving up and losing. That's fine, people should race what they like, but for people to suggest that modified is too fast(probably because they suck at it) is truly ridiculous. It should be hard, frustrating, and fast, it's the highest level of tc racing. The highest level of anything is neither cheap or easy. Flame away...
Every form of real motorsports has a class of cars that are way overpowered, F1, Motogp, Lemans, even supercross. It's that way for a reason, to seperate the men from the boys.
In 17.5 or 13.5 you come out of a corner and just mash the throttle. Wow, fun. In mod the way the throttle is applied is all part of a fast lap time. It adds another dimension to the racing and that's why I like it. Offroad guys have to use throttle control, why would anyone want to take that away from onroad?
There are a lot of reasons why good drivers don't move up to mod; too expensive, or they want to race what they're friends race, or want to stay in a class where they know they can win instead of moving up and losing. That's fine, people should race what they like, but for people to suggest that modified is too fast(probably because they suck at it) is truly ridiculous. It should be hard, frustrating, and fast, it's the highest level of tc racing. The highest level of anything is neither cheap or easy. Flame away...
Your replies are well thought out, but mostly off base.
I just can't believe what I'm reading.
Every form of real motorsports has a class of cars that are way overpowered, F1, Motogp, Lemans, even supercross. It's that way for a reason, to seperate the men from the boys.
Yes they are the pinnacle, but they too "limit" the output. F1 for example... where the hell are the Tubos of the 80's ? 1200HP in qualifing trim... Most of all the regulation changes of the last decade are designed to make the cars slower/and or more competetive.
In 17.5 or 13.5 you come out of a corner and just mash the throttle. Wow, fun. In mod the way the throttle is applied is all part of a fast lap time. It adds another dimension to the racing and that's why I like it. Offroad guys have to use throttle control, why would anyone want to take that away from onroad?
Umm, in Rubber Tire 13.5 ,at least outdoor, there is throttle moduation.. and going fast in any class requires some kind of throttle control.
That's fine, people should race what they like, but for people to suggest that modified is too fast(probably because they suck at it) is truly ridiculous. It should be hard, frustrating, and fast, it's the highest level of tc racing. The highest level of anything is neither cheap or easy.
Nobody is suggesting it should cheap or easy, and by limiting the motor does not make it as such. So, for someone like Josh Cyrul to suggest it is too fast, your saying he probably sucks at it.... He has been around long enough, long enough to remember the Pan car Mod class at the Nats, they they stopped running in the middle of the race because it was too fast and dangerous. With the current " Get some Balls" attitude, we will be right back to that.. with no "Slower" pro class to go to.
I have run my share of mod at the State level, and used to love running it, but it is too much now, I don't enjoy stripping belts, roasting electronics and watching 3 cars finish a heat...
The top class of racing, is a class where the top talent is, and where racers should aspire to get to. It does not have to be uncontrollable to be that way.
06-19-2009, 06:49 AM
#247
And for those people that whine about track size... it is all relative... a 10.5 motor is as fast as a hot Mod from 5 years ago.... where these tracks no fun to drive with a mod car 5 years ago... and to that point, maybe you should not be running a 1/10th car on that paticular track if it is.
Please take into consideration what tracks are designed for.
Please take into consideration what tracks are designed for.
06-19-2009, 06:57 AM
#248
Older tracks probably wouldn't have guessed we would be racing warp speed 2.5's in years to come...
But that doesnt make it a "bad" track, just one thats not ideally suited to everyone, like plenty of other things that can influence where you race I guess
But that doesnt make it a "bad" track, just one thats not ideally suited to everyone, like plenty of other things that can influence where you race I guess
06-19-2009, 07:45 AM
#249
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
While I am probably one of the only Pro guys to come on here these days and voice my opinion, I know that most of the mod/pro guys feel the same way. Talk to Blackstock, Herbert, Reinhardt just to name a few and they all agree that Modified with 7.4v Lipo is too fast and next to impossible to race with other people. I think Marc's comment after running Lipo w/ a 4.0 at the IIC and foam last year was something about it being stupid and unraceable.
Lemieux won't say anything because he is winning right now but he should be because the class is nearly extinct and there's needs to be racers in it for it to be relivant to the industry. Otherwise, you could see Paul, Blackstock, Herbert and myself running 13.5 with Drew and the guys.
Also for the realists out there - How realistic is 50+mph with a 1/10 car. 500mph?? Sounds realistic to me.... Let's compare it to the F1 of on-road racing - 1/8 nitro = 70mph scale speed 560mph on a 260' x 80' track. A 1/10 TC running 50mph scale speed 500mph on a 100' x 48' track. That's why 1/8 lap times are 17, 18 seconds a lap and TC's are 9 seconds a lap.
3.7v Lipo in 1/12 will be awesome - It will slow ALL pan classes down a little to make everything more drivable and hopefully be enough that some of the good drivers are board in 17.5 to move up to 13.5 and some from 13.5 to move to Modified.
Lemieux won't say anything because he is winning right now but he should be because the class is nearly extinct and there's needs to be racers in it for it to be relivant to the industry. Otherwise, you could see Paul, Blackstock, Herbert and myself running 13.5 with Drew and the guys.
Also for the realists out there - How realistic is 50+mph with a 1/10 car. 500mph?? Sounds realistic to me.... Let's compare it to the F1 of on-road racing - 1/8 nitro = 70mph scale speed 560mph on a 260' x 80' track. A 1/10 TC running 50mph scale speed 500mph on a 100' x 48' track. That's why 1/8 lap times are 17, 18 seconds a lap and TC's are 9 seconds a lap.
3.7v Lipo in 1/12 will be awesome - It will slow ALL pan classes down a little to make everything more drivable and hopefully be enough that some of the good drivers are board in 17.5 to move up to 13.5 and some from 13.5 to move to Modified.
06-19-2009, 07:53 AM
#250
I think that there is a definate transition to get into a mod class from driving and competition and knowledge.
Look at pro drivers like Josh and even outside rc like Force or Martin - years of experience and plenty of driving and competition has made them into what they are.
Heck I would love to run mod but not everything is there for me and I am not the type to try it and cause harm or heart ache to others I am racing.
I am jumping to the lipo brushless 1/12 scale realm that will be a definate change.
Just keep the hobby / sport going!
Look at pro drivers like Josh and even outside rc like Force or Martin - years of experience and plenty of driving and competition has made them into what they are.
Heck I would love to run mod but not everything is there for me and I am not the type to try it and cause harm or heart ache to others I am racing.
I am jumping to the lipo brushless 1/12 scale realm that will be a definate change.
Just keep the hobby / sport going!
06-19-2009, 08:07 AM
#251
Suspended
Lets all race touring cars between 10-20mph then, just to make it realistic for the scale.. 
06-19-2009, 08:18 AM
#255
alright, nobody's saying anything new. and this isn't a poll, so voting for an aforementioned opinion has absolutely no use. let's not let this go the way of every other thread in history (that makes us wonder why we even thought r/c was a good idea).
let it fall down the list of threads gracefully if you have no new insight to add.
in the first post, robk asked if it was the track construction that is what made running mode in the u.s. unattractive. after all of this mumbo jumbo, it appears not to be the contruction, but the size that's the issue. (isn't it always?) for every place else, their tracks have not reached a size where unlimited mod is so daunting. over here, we have, and one of two things must change.
essentially, our lap times have to get back to some minimum number for mod. slow the cars, slow the cornerspeed (tires), or expand the track.
let it fall down the list of threads gracefully if you have no new insight to add.
in the first post, robk asked if it was the track construction that is what made running mode in the u.s. unattractive. after all of this mumbo jumbo, it appears not to be the contruction, but the size that's the issue. (isn't it always?) for every place else, their tracks have not reached a size where unlimited mod is so daunting. over here, we have, and one of two things must change.
essentially, our lap times have to get back to some minimum number for mod. slow the cars, slow the cornerspeed (tires), or expand the track.
Last edited by seaball; 06-19-2009 at 08:32 AM.