6LikesWill there ever be a 1/8th scale Electric onroad car
05-04-2010, 02:42 PM
#542
Oh nice....exactly what I would do with 4S application. Let us know the gearing...motor/batteries temp and your feeling, run time as well....your information will help all of us in the future project. Thanks.
P.S...if you are running with NITRO 1/8th...it is a good idea to find a few of them and run behind or side by side with them....of course, it is better if you know them and let me award of your electric car cause I am sure your cornering/acceleration could be alot "punchy" then the centax...they might get you on the striaght due to the 2-speed.
P.S...if you are running with NITRO 1/8th...it is a good idea to find a few of them and run behind or side by side with them....of course, it is better if you know them and let me award of your electric car cause I am sure your cornering/acceleration could be alot "punchy" then the centax...they might get you on the striaght due to the 2-speed.
... test run will be at greater la track this weekend 
05-05-2010, 04:22 AM
#544
I doubt ROAR will do anything about this class....1/8th on road electric is FAR FAR AWAY from being OK to start....off road trans. and way different the on road, and off road race condition are totally different then on road, thats why off road is a lot easier to take off then on road and ROAR has to draw out their spec on it....
1/8th ON ROAD is still about centax, Lola bodies, pit mechanic coordination, 1 hours main...and most important, the SOUND of nitro engine. These are things that brushless can never replace.
However, it is not necessary the nitro version handle and run faster/better then the brushless version...that is something we are trying to find out.
About 6S is more efficent, yes, I believe that is ture. There are no limit about the voltage, but there is a limit about the KV on motors...it is all about BALANCE of the whole system. Like I said, I would prefer to run 6S with lower KV motor over the other way around.
You should try the Motonica version as well...that is basicly my version of my 960, except, mine is NOT the carbon fiber and never that fancy looking. The MOTONICA version, is definitely a possible version of "batteries after batteries" type of quick release design. Once the car is in the pit, the mechanic flipped the car over and pull out the batteries from the bottom, drop in the new packs and off to go. However, Motonica were still mounting the batteries with TAPE...if they can design a quick clip system that can pre-tape the batteries onto some kinda batteries mount and clip it over the TOP PLATE of the M81, that would be perfect.
1/8th ON ROAD is still about centax, Lola bodies, pit mechanic coordination, 1 hours main...and most important, the SOUND of nitro engine. These are things that brushless can never replace.
However, it is not necessary the nitro version handle and run faster/better then the brushless version...that is something we are trying to find out.
About 6S is more efficent, yes, I believe that is ture. There are no limit about the voltage, but there is a limit about the KV on motors...it is all about BALANCE of the whole system. Like I said, I would prefer to run 6S with lower KV motor over the other way around.
You should try the Motonica version as well...that is basicly my version of my 960, except, mine is NOT the carbon fiber and never that fancy looking. The MOTONICA version, is definitely a possible version of "batteries after batteries" type of quick release design. Once the car is in the pit, the mechanic flipped the car over and pull out the batteries from the bottom, drop in the new packs and off to go. However, Motonica were still mounting the batteries with TAPE...if they can design a quick clip system that can pre-tape the batteries onto some kinda batteries mount and clip it over the TOP PLATE of the M81, that would be perfect.
I may convert my 966e back to gas, since I do not have all the batteries yet, run it this weekend and track everything time wise. Then when I get all the electrical (4S) ready, covert it back to electric and compare.
I may also do this with my Motonica, but this will by 6s.
Thanks.
05-05-2010, 06:36 AM
#545
our 5s packs are on the way for the Timezone E-mugen..... worked pretty darn well on 4s but Tekin wants us to do some testing with 5s..... should be back on the track with it within a week or so.
05-05-2010, 12:19 PM
#546
It's true about 1/8e far away, but I think we should plan ahead and maybe come up or agree that one or the other is better for this application, then we can maybe progress from there in developing this class.
I may convert my 966e back to gas, since I do not have all the batteries yet, run it this weekend and track everything time wise. Then when I get all the electrical (4S) ready, covert it back to electric and compare.
I may also do this with my Motonica, but this will by 6s.
Thanks.
I may convert my 966e back to gas, since I do not have all the batteries yet, run it this weekend and track everything time wise. Then when I get all the electrical (4S) ready, covert it back to electric and compare.
I may also do this with my Motonica, but this will by 6s.
Thanks.
Adding LIPO and brushless system on a full suspension and 3 belts on road car...it is actually VERY VERY HEAVY car. If 1/8th on road need to be run in electric....2 designs should be done (1) a 8th scale size 12/10th scale RWD pan car design......super fast and easy to work on, but limited to track condition (2) a 8th scale size of the current touring car 2 belts design...with rear floating suspension, Pan car bodies and quick release tires....
Before anyone creating things like that...all we can do are the HOMEMADE edition 1/8th conversion...
05-06-2010, 01:10 AM
#548
ONE question...you are slowering the motor to 1400kv now...even with 6S, does the speed up to par version NITRO? Or you are gearing it very high to make up the speed? You already told us that motor and speedo were very cool after the run.....I have the same system but with 2050kv running stock 45/20 gearing, do you think that is too much?
I do feel that the most efficient setup will be to go with the higher voltages...either 5S or 6S. On a smaller track (it was meant for 1/10 on road, Eric from NorCal Hobbies, a national level 1/8 scale driver got the motor temp to 200 degrees (!) after 11 mins and 30 secs. Surprisingly, we had checked the temp at 10 mins and it was 160 degrees. The 11:30 mark was the lipo cut-off, and the thought is that perhaps this was right when the battery dumped, which may have caused the motor temp to shoot up...Think about it...the voltage drops and so the amps shoot up...more amps equals more heat. Also troubling was that I believe this incident caused my 50C 4400 6S pack to puff a bit...again probably due to the large amp draw.
So...I'm still not 100% comfortable that I have the best motor/gearing setup yet. It's possible that if I had a slightly higher kv motor and a bit lower gearing that it might have run a bit better. I do have a data logger for logging battery voltage, amp draw, rpm and this has been helpful, but just when I think I have a safe setup, someone drives the car harder or faster or the track is more demanding (1/10 scale?) and that leads to some issues which causes me to doubt my setup.
I have strong interest from Kevin Jelich, a former 1/8 scale top contender, to drive my car at RAMS. While I need to let him "test drive" it, I am a bit concerned whether the car (batteries, motor) can handle his extreme driving ability. We'll see! LOL
By the way, as you noticed I have two cars now...the Evolva 05 and the Evolva M3. I will be continuing my testing of a 1700 kv with various gearing in one car (which is what I ran before I switched to 1400 kv) and compare this to the 1400 kv with different gearing in the other car.
Last edited by East Bay Pete; 05-06-2010 at 06:46 AM.
05-06-2010, 08:34 AM
#549
Thanks again for the compliments, Solara. The speed is still comparable to the nitro cars with the 1400 kv 6S combo. I'm geared pretty high to achieve this...25 pinion and 42 spur. I would not say that I have found the best combo of motor size and gearing. There's a lot of combinations and variables!
I do feel that the most efficient setup will be to go with the higher voltages...either 5S or 6S. On a smaller track (it was meant for 1/10 on road, Eric from NorCal Hobbies, a national level 1/8 scale driver got the motor temp to 200 degrees (!) after 11 mins and 30 secs. Surprisingly, we had checked the temp at 10 mins and it was 160 degrees. The 11:30 mark was the lipo cut-off, and the thought is that perhaps this was right when the battery dumped, which may have caused the motor temp to shoot up...Think about it...the voltage drops and so the amps shoot up...more amps equals more heat. Also troubling was that I believe this incident caused my 50C 4400 6S pack to puff a bit...again probably due to the large amp draw.
So...I'm still not 100% comfortable that I have the best motor/gearing setup yet. It's possible that if I had a slightly higher kv motor and a bit lower gearing that it might have run a bit better. I do have a data logger for logging battery voltage, amp draw, rpm and this has been helpful, but just when I think I have a safe setup, someone drives the car harder or faster or the track is more demanding (1/10 scale?) and that leads to some issues which causes me to doubt my setup.
I have strong interest from Kevin Jelich, a former 1/8 scale top contender, to drive my car at RAMS. While I need to let him "test drive" it, I am a bit concerned whether the car (batteries, motor) can handle his extreme driving ability. We'll see! LOL
By the way, as you noticed I have two cars now...the Evolva 05 and the Evolva M3. I will be continuing my testing of a 1700 kv with various gearing in one car (which is what I ran before I switched to 1400 kv) and compare this to the 1400 kv with different gearing in the other car.
I do feel that the most efficient setup will be to go with the higher voltages...either 5S or 6S. On a smaller track (it was meant for 1/10 on road, Eric from NorCal Hobbies, a national level 1/8 scale driver got the motor temp to 200 degrees (!) after 11 mins and 30 secs. Surprisingly, we had checked the temp at 10 mins and it was 160 degrees. The 11:30 mark was the lipo cut-off, and the thought is that perhaps this was right when the battery dumped, which may have caused the motor temp to shoot up...Think about it...the voltage drops and so the amps shoot up...more amps equals more heat. Also troubling was that I believe this incident caused my 50C 4400 6S pack to puff a bit...again probably due to the large amp draw.
So...I'm still not 100% comfortable that I have the best motor/gearing setup yet. It's possible that if I had a slightly higher kv motor and a bit lower gearing that it might have run a bit better. I do have a data logger for logging battery voltage, amp draw, rpm and this has been helpful, but just when I think I have a safe setup, someone drives the car harder or faster or the track is more demanding (1/10 scale?) and that leads to some issues which causes me to doubt my setup.
I have strong interest from Kevin Jelich, a former 1/8 scale top contender, to drive my car at RAMS. While I need to let him "test drive" it, I am a bit concerned whether the car (batteries, motor) can handle his extreme driving ability. We'll see! LOL
By the way, as you noticed I have two cars now...the Evolva 05 and the Evolva M3. I will be continuing my testing of a 1700 kv with various gearing in one car (which is what I ran before I switched to 1400 kv) and compare this to the 1400 kv with different gearing in the other car.
I am not sure what I said make sence to you....but my idea is, try not to alter too much of the car and let the brushless motor/lipo to do the work and see how it play against the nitro powered unit...thats all.
05-06-2010, 10:10 AM
#550
Pete...great write up, learned alot from you. Here is another question to you. Since you are running 6S now...and looks like run time is 10 min + already...have you try to run the 2050kv motor with the 45/19 gearing..? I am not familiar with Kyosho gear box...my Serpent, the stock 2-speed gearbox, using NITRO engine, was running 45/19 or 45/20 gearing. May be you should get a faster motor like you said, the 1700, or even 2050, smaller pinion and still have the same speed like the NITRO version, but with a more efficient motor (higher KV I meant) that might help on the batteries....when you mentioned you were running 1400kv motor, the 1st thing I can think of is, you must gear very tall and really BEATING the batteries, speedo and motor all 3 to maintain the speed like the nitro version...
I am not sure what I said make sence to you....but my idea is, try not to alter too much of the car and let the brushless motor/lipo to do the work and see how it play against the nitro powered unit...thats all.
I am not sure what I said make sence to you....but my idea is, try not to alter too much of the car and let the brushless motor/lipo to do the work and see how it play against the nitro powered unit...thats all.
Using my speed chart that I have, 45/19 on 2050 kv @ 6S (22.2 volts…but remember, fully charged the pack starts around 25 volts, after about 2 mins max, drops a bit and stays there until it dumps or gets cut off at 19.8-20.4 volts) the speed would be around 69 mph (theoretical). On 1700 kv, it would be around 57 mph…slower than my current 1400 kv 42/25 setup which is around 66 mph.
Part of the issue is that the design only allows minimal movement of the motor. Hence, there is a minimum total teeth (pinion & spur) and maximum total teeth. The minimum is about 65 total teeth and the maximum is either 67 or 68. When you couple this with the fact that the spur gears that I use only come in a 40, 42, 45 & 48 it’s a little limited on gear choices. The speed of the car compared to the nitros is pretty close when I have it geared for around 66 mph…it might be just a little slower. To do this with a 1700 kv motor I would run 45/22. Honestly, I believe I have tried this or slightly higher gearing (I admit for not having better records earlier on!) As I recall, the run time wasn’t quite where I wanted it.
What’s great about the Tekin motors, aside from the sensored design which I really like, is that they offer quite a few choices in kv. If only I could try them all! (I will test the 1700 kv vs. the 1400 kv more thoroughly soon) I think the other good choice could be the 1900 kv…I guess I’m a bit biased in thinking that the 2050 kv would not be efficient enough, however since it would be geared lower, perhaps that would overcome the lower efficiency. Like I said, I wish I could try them all!
I don't know if I answered all of your questions, but I hope this helps!
05-06-2010, 10:57 AM
#551
Thanks for the reply, Solara.
Using my speed chart that I have, 45/19 on 2050 kv @ 6S (22.2 volts…but remember, fully charged the pack starts around 25 volts, after about 2 mins max, drops a bit and stays there until it dumps or gets cut off at 19.8-20.4 volts) the speed would be around 69 mph (theoretical). On 1700 kv, it would be around 57 mph…slower than my current 1400 kv 42/25 setup which is around 66 mph.
Part of the issue is that the design only allows minimal movement of the motor. Hence, there is a minimum total teeth (pinion & spur) and maximum total teeth. The minimum is about 65 total teeth and the maximum is either 67 or 68. When you couple this with the fact that the spur gears that I use only come in a 40, 42, 45 & 48 it’s a little limited on gear choices. The speed of the car compared to the nitros is pretty close when I have it geared for around 66 mph…it might be just a little slower. To do this with a 1700 kv motor I would run 45/22. Honestly, I believe I have tried this or slightly higher gearing (I admit for not having better records earlier on!) As I recall, the run time wasn’t quite where I wanted it.
What’s great about the Tekin motors, aside from the sensored design which I really like, is that they offer quite a few choices in kv. If only I could try them all! (I will test the 1700 kv vs. the 1400 kv more thoroughly soon) I think the other good choice could be the 1900 kv…I guess I’m a bit biased in thinking that the 2050 kv would not be efficient enough, however since it would be geared lower, perhaps that would overcome the lower efficiency. Like I said, I wish I could try them all!
I don't know if I answered all of your questions, but I hope this helps!
Using my speed chart that I have, 45/19 on 2050 kv @ 6S (22.2 volts…but remember, fully charged the pack starts around 25 volts, after about 2 mins max, drops a bit and stays there until it dumps or gets cut off at 19.8-20.4 volts) the speed would be around 69 mph (theoretical). On 1700 kv, it would be around 57 mph…slower than my current 1400 kv 42/25 setup which is around 66 mph.
Part of the issue is that the design only allows minimal movement of the motor. Hence, there is a minimum total teeth (pinion & spur) and maximum total teeth. The minimum is about 65 total teeth and the maximum is either 67 or 68. When you couple this with the fact that the spur gears that I use only come in a 40, 42, 45 & 48 it’s a little limited on gear choices. The speed of the car compared to the nitros is pretty close when I have it geared for around 66 mph…it might be just a little slower. To do this with a 1700 kv motor I would run 45/22. Honestly, I believe I have tried this or slightly higher gearing (I admit for not having better records earlier on!) As I recall, the run time wasn’t quite where I wanted it.
What’s great about the Tekin motors, aside from the sensored design which I really like, is that they offer quite a few choices in kv. If only I could try them all! (I will test the 1700 kv vs. the 1400 kv more thoroughly soon) I think the other good choice could be the 1900 kv…I guess I’m a bit biased in thinking that the 2050 kv would not be efficient enough, however since it would be geared lower, perhaps that would overcome the lower efficiency. Like I said, I wish I could try them all!
I don't know if I answered all of your questions, but I hope this helps!
Right now, I ordered by 2050 Tekin Redline running with (2) 5000 3S 45C Lipos (total 6s powered)...gearing should be 45/18 to 20 range. That is exactly the same as the NITRO version when I was running with nitro engine (gearing wise). And I am assuming the RPM of the electric motor is MORE or as much as the nitro engine (Nova Rossi base).....do you think my 2050kv motor choice is correct? Or you already know that it is still too fast of a motor for 6S..?
Like I mentioned before...my 1st goal is, obtain the same handling, speed, compare to the NITRO version on a 1/8th National layout circuit (not parking lot), for 5-6 minutes, without blowing up....Running 10 plus minutes, cooler motor, cooler batteries and speedo is not concern me at this moment.
Here is our 1/8th track....Leisure Hours Raceway, home of Byron Challange.
05-06-2010, 12:05 PM
#552
Right now, I ordered by 2050 Tekin Redline running with (2) 5000 3S 45C Lipos (total 6s powered)...gearing should be 45/18 to 20 range. That is exactly the same as the NITRO version when I was running with nitro engine (gearing wise). And I am assuming the RPM of the electric motor is MORE or as much as the nitro engine (Nova Rossi base).....do you think my 2050kv motor choice is correct? Or you already know that it is still too fast of a motor for 6S..?
Like I mentioned before...my 1st goal is, obtain the same handling, speed, compare to the NITRO version on a 1/8th National layout circuit (not parking lot), for 5-6 minutes, without blowing up....Running 10 plus minutes, cooler motor, cooler batteries and speedo is not concern me at this moment.
Like I mentioned before...my 1st goal is, obtain the same handling, speed, compare to the NITRO version on a 1/8th National layout circuit (not parking lot), for 5-6 minutes, without blowing up....Running 10 plus minutes, cooler motor, cooler batteries and speedo is not concern me at this moment.
05-06-2010, 12:12 PM
#553
05-06-2010, 12:15 PM
#554
Tech Addict
East bay pete: do you got a carbon lower deck?
05-06-2010, 12:22 PM
#555
1/8 scale On Road Car
Hi, I am attaching photos of the Kyosho Interno GT2 which Fine Design
converts to BL electric. From what I understand and depending on which
motor, Neu, etc and lipos it is pretty fast. Just for info. Regards
Norman2
converts to BL electric. From what I understand and depending on which
motor, Neu, etc and lipos it is pretty fast. Just for info. Regards
Norman2