ROAR to 4 cell....
11-26-2006, 10:42 AM
#436
Originally Posted by AdrianM
Junior - It is still being debated.
I race at least twice a month. Where I race we actually have a Stock, 19 and Mod class. A really good weekend for a mod driver is a race where he brings home all the motors he showed up with. This dosen't always happen. At a State Series race 2 months ago I saw 3 regular guy non sponsored Mod drivers blow winds, unsolder windings from comms etc.
I just got back from a race this Friday and Saturday. Based on the opinions of the guys that sought me out to talk about 4 cell the guys complaining about 4 cell here at at a vast minority. At least 15 guys came up to me at this race and ALL of them Stock, 19T and Mod racers though 4 cell was a great idea.
The winner of the 2006 State series Mod Class was actually talking to all the Mod drivers about running 4 cell in the State Series no matter how ROAR votes. Once again based on the response it look like at least the FSEARA Mod Class will be 4 cell in 2007.
I race at least twice a month. Where I race we actually have a Stock, 19 and Mod class. A really good weekend for a mod driver is a race where he brings home all the motors he showed up with. This dosen't always happen. At a State Series race 2 months ago I saw 3 regular guy non sponsored Mod drivers blow winds, unsolder windings from comms etc.
I just got back from a race this Friday and Saturday. Based on the opinions of the guys that sought me out to talk about 4 cell the guys complaining about 4 cell here at at a vast minority. At least 15 guys came up to me at this race and ALL of them Stock, 19T and Mod racers though 4 cell was a great idea.
The winner of the 2006 State series Mod Class was actually talking to all the Mod drivers about running 4 cell in the State Series no matter how ROAR votes. Once again based on the response it look like at least the FSEARA Mod Class will be 4 cell in 2007.
11-26-2006, 10:47 AM
#437
Originally Posted by AdrianM
Junior - It is still being debated.
I race at least twice a month. Where I race we actually have a Stock, 19 and Mod class. A really good weekend for a mod driver is a race where he brings home all the motors he showed up with. This dosen't always happen. At a State Series race 2 months ago I saw 3 regular guy non sponsored Mod drivers blow winds, unsolder windings from comms etc.
I just got back from a race this Friday and Saturday. Based on the opinions of the guys that sought me out to talk about 4 cell the guys complaining about 4 cell here at at a vast minority. At least 15 guys came up to me at this race and ALL of them Stock, 19T and Mod racers though 4 cell was a great idea.
The winner of the 2006 State series Mod Class was actually talking to all the Mod drivers about running 4 cell in the State Series no matter how ROAR votes. Once again based on the response it look like at least the FSEARA Mod Class will be 4 cell in 2007.
I race at least twice a month. Where I race we actually have a Stock, 19 and Mod class. A really good weekend for a mod driver is a race where he brings home all the motors he showed up with. This dosen't always happen. At a State Series race 2 months ago I saw 3 regular guy non sponsored Mod drivers blow winds, unsolder windings from comms etc.
I just got back from a race this Friday and Saturday. Based on the opinions of the guys that sought me out to talk about 4 cell the guys complaining about 4 cell here at at a vast minority. At least 15 guys came up to me at this race and ALL of them Stock, 19T and Mod racers though 4 cell was a great idea.
The winner of the 2006 State series Mod Class was actually talking to all the Mod drivers about running 4 cell in the State Series no matter how ROAR votes. Once again based on the response it look like at least the FSEARA Mod Class will be 4 cell in 2007.
Another thing for Adrian. Cleveland is going on as we speak... Best of the best on the track as we speak, the fastest of the fast, bolted to carpet for traction. Where are all the catastophic failures?
11-26-2006, 10:54 AM
#438
Originally Posted by ottoman
Bob
I don't want to see 4cell TC either. But on very large outdoor tracks (Europe)on hot days they do have motor problems. If your straight is long enough your mod motor is wound tight for quite a while... add in the extreme heat... ambient plus motor generated and the epoxy looses strength... add in the extreme RPM and eventually you can throw a wind. We will never see this on a carpet track because they are much shorter. I think a BL with a sintered rotor would help in this case... but we will see.
I agree we in the USA don't need this 4 cell rule here because we race under different conditions... maybe FLA on asphalt in the summer but the majority of US racing doesn't have this problem. I think ROAR should make 4 or 5 cell with a weight reduction a OPTION to 6 cells to the mod racers and let them decide what they want to run at each event. This should end the bitching
Just leave stock and 19 alone.
I don't want to see 4cell TC either. But on very large outdoor tracks (Europe)on hot days they do have motor problems. If your straight is long enough your mod motor is wound tight for quite a while... add in the extreme heat... ambient plus motor generated and the epoxy looses strength... add in the extreme RPM and eventually you can throw a wind. We will never see this on a carpet track because they are much shorter. I think a BL with a sintered rotor would help in this case... but we will see.
I agree we in the USA don't need this 4 cell rule here because we race under different conditions... maybe FLA on asphalt in the summer but the majority of US racing doesn't have this problem. I think ROAR should make 4 or 5 cell with a weight reduction a OPTION to 6 cells to the mod racers and let them decide what they want to run at each event. This should end the bitching
Just leave stock and 19 alone.
Ummm try weather.com, last time I checked Europe isn't hot. There are no Deserts in Europe, lol.
It's not heat that's killing them. And Bob's arguement is perfect. Show us some race results with 6 DNFS...but it's not happening here.
11-26-2006, 10:55 AM
#439
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
What's the track temperature where you race?
The most motors I have ever seen blown in one place was at the Strickland, FL FSEARA race. Tim Potter blew up 3 motors, Greh Hunsinger Jr. blew up 1, Mike "Butter" Abreira blew up 1 and Troy Schafer blew up 1. All were thrown winds. The air temp was ~90 deg and the track was not all that hot at around 130 deg F. At most races this year 1-2 motors would fail.
Someone said why dont they motor down...Because if you do and someone else manages to keep a fast motor together then you will lose. So they run the fast motors with 2 fans, try to drive easy for the first 3 minutes of the race and pray it holds together.
11-26-2006, 11:00 AM
#440
Originally Posted by AdrianM
Junior - It is still being debated.
I race at least twice a month. Where I race we actually have a Stock, 19 and Mod class. A really good weekend for a mod driver is a race where he brings home all the motors he showed up with. This dosen't always happen. At a State Series race 2 months ago I saw 3 regular guy non sponsored Mod drivers blow winds, unsolder windings from comms etc.
I just got back from a race this Friday and Saturday. Based on the opinions of the guys that sought me out to talk about 4 cell the guys complaining about 4 cell here at at a vast minority. At least 15 guys came up to me at this race and ALL of them Stock, 19T and Mod racers though 4 cell was a great idea.
The winner of the 2006 State series Mod Class was actually talking to all the Mod drivers about running 4 cell in the State Series no matter how ROAR votes. Once again based on the response it look like at least the FSEARA Mod Class will be 4 cell in 2007.
I race at least twice a month. Where I race we actually have a Stock, 19 and Mod class. A really good weekend for a mod driver is a race where he brings home all the motors he showed up with. This dosen't always happen. At a State Series race 2 months ago I saw 3 regular guy non sponsored Mod drivers blow winds, unsolder windings from comms etc.
I just got back from a race this Friday and Saturday. Based on the opinions of the guys that sought me out to talk about 4 cell the guys complaining about 4 cell here at at a vast minority. At least 15 guys came up to me at this race and ALL of them Stock, 19T and Mod racers though 4 cell was a great idea.
The winner of the 2006 State series Mod Class was actually talking to all the Mod drivers about running 4 cell in the State Series no matter how ROAR votes. Once again based on the response it look like at least the FSEARA Mod Class will be 4 cell in 2007.
So because your track is having problems the rest of the country is. To be honest I think the series you're in is at a higher level, where they take racing more serious. Which would explain the higher than average failures.
But are your racers complaining about going through $140 in tires every weekend? I think it's strange that the single most expensive item in TC racing isn't brought up (wink wink). Why would't these mod guys try going slower with cheaper tires?
Racing is going to break or wear out things, but as we change to Brushless some of those "brush problems go away." and unsoldering at this point should be nothing more than user error, bad brush, hung brush, bad solder.
But really we can't make rules for the Florida State series and off-road...maybe they get free tires in Florida, and have to pay for motors
Love Ya Adrian
11-26-2006, 11:02 AM
#441
Originally Posted by AdrianM
We race year round outdoors. In the winter the track surface can be as cool as 40 deg F on a cold overcast day. In summer the tracks are usually over 140 deg F. The highest I have seen personally was this year in September where we took a reading and the track surface was 161 deg F at Speedline Hobbies (the 2005 Nats track) in Tampa.
The most motors I have ever seen blown in one place was at the Strickland, FL FSEARA race. Tim Potter blew up 3 motors, Greh Hunsinger Jr. blew up 1, Mike "Butter" Abreira blew up 1 and Troy Schafer blew up 1. All were thrown winds. The air temp was ~90 deg and the track was not all that hot at around 130 deg F. At most races this year 1-2 motors would fail.
Someone said why dont they motor down...Because if you do and someone else manages to keep a fast motor together then you will lose. So they run the fast motors with 2 fans, try to drive easy for the first 3 minutes of the race and pray it holds together.
The most motors I have ever seen blown in one place was at the Strickland, FL FSEARA race. Tim Potter blew up 3 motors, Greh Hunsinger Jr. blew up 1, Mike "Butter" Abreira blew up 1 and Troy Schafer blew up 1. All were thrown winds. The air temp was ~90 deg and the track was not all that hot at around 130 deg F. At most races this year 1-2 motors would fail.
Someone said why dont they motor down...Because if you do and someone else manages to keep a fast motor together then you will lose. So they run the fast motors with 2 fans, try to drive easy for the first 3 minutes of the race and pray it holds together.
ROAR make a rule that races should only be on cold surfaces or have the new management team bring a weather changing device.
And what main where these drivers in?
11-26-2006, 11:06 AM
#442
Before I go eat, and put up some XMas Lights.
Batteries are always becoming more powerful, always will. In 4 cell we'll always have more voltage coming, MAH is always going to go up.
So motor/Speedo manufacturers have to take that into the equation and build something for the future.
It's like when the build Highways. They usually build them for the congestion of that era, and not taking into account that in 15 years when the project is completed that the traffic will have at least doubled....so they have to start over again.
Build for the future, and that is only a few .1 of a volt each year.
Don't hate the one thing that is actually really good. Pro's DON'T have a battery advantage as much as they did in the past.
Batteries are always becoming more powerful, always will. In 4 cell we'll always have more voltage coming, MAH is always going to go up.
So motor/Speedo manufacturers have to take that into the equation and build something for the future.
It's like when the build Highways. They usually build them for the congestion of that era, and not taking into account that in 15 years when the project is completed that the traffic will have at least doubled....so they have to start over again.
Build for the future, and that is only a few .1 of a volt each year.
Don't hate the one thing that is actually really good. Pro's DON'T have a battery advantage as much as they did in the past.
11-26-2006, 11:11 AM
#443
According to the ROAR rules you can run up to 6 cells, how about letting people run 4,5 or 6 cells for a year and if you run 4,or 5 cells give them a handicap for the weight, allow them to run a little bit lighter for the missing cells, and let them run together to see how they like it. just a thought
11-26-2006, 11:12 AM
#444
Originally Posted by DerekB
So because your track is having problems the rest of the country is. To be honest I think the series you're in is at a higher level, where they take racing more serious. Which would explain the higher than average failures.
But are your racers complaining about going through $140 in tires every weekend? I think it's strange that the single most expensive item in TC racing isn't brought up (wink wink). Why would't these mod guys try going slower with cheaper tires?
Racing is going to break or wear out things, but as we change to Brushless some of those "brush problems go away." and unsoldering at this point should be nothing more than user error, bad brush, hung brush, bad solder.
But really we can't make rules for the Florida State series and off-road...maybe they get free tires in Florida, and have to pay for motors
Love Ya Adrian
But are your racers complaining about going through $140 in tires every weekend? I think it's strange that the single most expensive item in TC racing isn't brought up (wink wink). Why would't these mod guys try going slower with cheaper tires?
Racing is going to break or wear out things, but as we change to Brushless some of those "brush problems go away." and unsoldering at this point should be nothing more than user error, bad brush, hung brush, bad solder.
But really we can't make rules for the Florida State series and off-road...maybe they get free tires in Florida, and have to pay for motors
Love Ya Adrian
As for going slower by using a cheaper tire...the cheaper tire theory was tried previously and it wasn't very successful. The discounted prices that we now receive, thanks to Schumacher has been very helpful to the racer.
11-26-2006, 11:34 AM
#445
Originally Posted by AdrianM
We race year round outdoors. In the winter the track surface can be as cool as 40 deg F on a cold overcast day. In summer the tracks are usually over 140 deg F. The highest I have seen personally was this year in September where we took a reading and the track surface was 161 deg F at Speedline Hobbies (the 2005 Nats track) in Tampa.
The most motors I have ever seen blown in one place was at the Strickland, FL FSEARA race. Tim Potter blew up 3 motors, Greh Hunsinger Jr. blew up 1, Mike "Butter" Abreira blew up 1 and Troy Schafer blew up 1. All were thrown winds. The air temp was ~90 deg and the track was not all that hot at around 130 deg F. At most races this year 1-2 motors would fail.
Someone said why dont they motor down...Because if you do and someone else manages to keep a fast motor together then you will lose. So they run the fast motors with 2 fans, try to drive easy for the first 3 minutes of the race and pray it holds together.
The most motors I have ever seen blown in one place was at the Strickland, FL FSEARA race. Tim Potter blew up 3 motors, Greh Hunsinger Jr. blew up 1, Mike "Butter" Abreira blew up 1 and Troy Schafer blew up 1. All were thrown winds. The air temp was ~90 deg and the track was not all that hot at around 130 deg F. At most races this year 1-2 motors would fail.
Someone said why dont they motor down...Because if you do and someone else manages to keep a fast motor together then you will lose. So they run the fast motors with 2 fans, try to drive easy for the first 3 minutes of the race and pray it holds together.
So 3-4 drivers should dictate a rule change. Thrown winds? Sounds like a motor problem not a battery problem. Let's not address the armature though...
11-26-2006, 11:36 AM
#446
Originally Posted by Marcos.J
According to the ROAR rules you can run up to 6 cells, how about letting people run 4,5 or 6 cells for a year and if you run 4,or 5 cells give them a handicap for the weight, allow them to run a little bit lighter for the missing cells, and let them run together to see how they like it. just a thought
11-26-2006, 11:38 AM
#447
Originally Posted by Bob-Stormer
So 3-4 drivers should dictate a rule change.
11-26-2006, 11:41 AM
#448
You guys are funny - get the membership to vote. If they won't vote for a President and a region directors ( one got one vote) what makes you think they are going to vote on batteries. After all a stamp is .39 cent still.
I'm not for 4 cell in stock and 19t. If the Mod guys in our series what to try 4 cell that great. We usually lead the country on most things anyway.Our first state race is Jan 20-21 I'm sure they will post there finding then.Besides most people really don't care.
I'm not for 4 cell in stock and 19t. If the Mod guys in our series what to try 4 cell that great. We usually lead the country on most things anyway.Our first state race is Jan 20-21 I'm sure they will post there finding then.Besides most people really don't care.
11-26-2006, 11:46 AM
#449
Originally Posted by BullFrog
You guys are funny - get the membership to vote. If they won't vote for a President and a region directors ( one got one vote) what makes you think they are going to vote on batteries. After all a stamp is .39 cent still.
I'm not for 4 cell in stock and 19t. If the Mod guys in our series what to try 4 cell that great. We usually lead the country on most things anyway.Our first state race is Jan 20-21 I'm sure they will post there finding then.Besides most people really don't care.
I'm not for 4 cell in stock and 19t. If the Mod guys in our series what to try 4 cell that great. We usually lead the country on most things anyway.Our first state race is Jan 20-21 I'm sure they will post there finding then.Besides most people really don't care.
I didn't know either guy, nobody I race with knows either guy. 80% of our club only joined because we made them to get the ROAR insurance. Outta site, outta mind, can't blame the racers for a turnout that is poor. if we have no idea who these guys are, why should we pick one? This isn't like going to McDonalds and picking up the "McRib", where we all have an opportunity to form a first hand opinion.
Why would people vote if they don't know these people?
I bet most of the votes for any of them came from their home towns, and clubs.
Want to get people to vote on important issues? Hand out ballets at the track... THAT'S WHERE THE RACERS ARE!!!!
Poor implementation of an election process is also likely to blame for a low voter turnout. Which also can't be blamed on the voters.