Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.
10-10-2006, 01:13 PM
#256
hehe those numbers arn't any good, here is a screen shot off the race computer, also including a larger picture of the open chassis.
The battery mounting was engineered to accept either NiMh batteries, and Lipo's. The left front post's had nuts drawn down opn hand made grub screws (set screws) and was used for nothing but alignment. the Right side post, I used spcers from the bottom to gain the correct hieght, then used a 4/40 flat head in a Alum cone washer, all we had to do is remove the right screw, and ratate the upper deck out of the way, never unhooking the shock. So we could use the 2 different types of batteries, I made a Strap bridge, so the upper plate would slide in the same as original.
Run time was average 30 to 45 mins with Flat out runs.
We had 8 teams vieing for the record.
The track was indoor with Asphalt
Thier was 3 diff types of cars running,
We ran the custom CRC Pantoura
Team Brood ran a One-Off Custom Speedmerchant ( true 1/10th pan 8 cell)
Classic thunder ran a modified 2wd Tamiya 415 MS
the other team ran Tamiya TA05 based rides.
The battery mounting was engineered to accept either NiMh batteries, and Lipo's. The left front post's had nuts drawn down opn hand made grub screws (set screws) and was used for nothing but alignment. the Right side post, I used spcers from the bottom to gain the correct hieght, then used a 4/40 flat head in a Alum cone washer, all we had to do is remove the right screw, and ratate the upper deck out of the way, never unhooking the shock. So we could use the 2 different types of batteries, I made a Strap bridge, so the upper plate would slide in the same as original.
Run time was average 30 to 45 mins with Flat out runs.
We had 8 teams vieing for the record.
The track was indoor with Asphalt
Thier was 3 diff types of cars running,
We ran the custom CRC Pantoura
Team Brood ran a One-Off Custom Speedmerchant ( true 1/10th pan 8 cell)
Classic thunder ran a modified 2wd Tamiya 415 MS
the other team ran Tamiya TA05 based rides.
10-10-2006, 02:09 PM
#257
Wide Pan Car Vs Narrow
Seems that the wide pan cars have more GT style bodies available than their narrow pan car counterparts. Also, according some reports here, it seems that the wide pan cars aremuch easier and forgiving to set-ups, have better traction/speed in the infield. I guess it would be great to try a test running wide vs narrow at same track and same time, to determine which is better at what, and document the information. I have narrow type but dont have the wide pan car to compare with my racing buddies. Corally C10X PRo kit is not in stock, and stormer hobbies still hasn't gotten them in yet(supposedly on order). Maybe someone here can actually perform the tests. Set up cars similarly and run them at same time and not the differences...
10-10-2006, 04:47 PM
#258
just ask Masami.
10-10-2006, 05:28 PM
#259
Originally Posted by crunchracer
hehe those numbers arn't any good, here is a screen shot off the race computer, also including a larger picture of the open chassis.
The battery mounting was engineered to accept either NiMh batteries, and Lipo's. The left front post's had nuts drawn down opn hand made grub screws (set screws) and was used for nothing but alignment. the Right side post, I used spcers from the bottom to gain the correct hieght, then used a 4/40 flat head in a Alum cone washer, all we had to do is remove the right screw, and ratate the upper deck out of the way, never unhooking the shock. So we could use the 2 different types of batteries, I made a Strap bridge, so the upper plate would slide in the same as original.
Run time was average 30 to 45 mins with Flat out runs.
We had 8 teams vieing for the record.
The track was indoor with Asphalt
Thier was 3 diff types of cars running,
We ran the custom CRC Pantoura
Team Brood ran a One-Off Custom Speedmerchant ( true 1/10th pan 8 cell)
Classic thunder ran a modified 2wd Tamiya 415 MS
the other team ran Tamiya TA05 based rides.
The battery mounting was engineered to accept either NiMh batteries, and Lipo's. The left front post's had nuts drawn down opn hand made grub screws (set screws) and was used for nothing but alignment. the Right side post, I used spcers from the bottom to gain the correct hieght, then used a 4/40 flat head in a Alum cone washer, all we had to do is remove the right screw, and ratate the upper deck out of the way, never unhooking the shock. So we could use the 2 different types of batteries, I made a Strap bridge, so the upper plate would slide in the same as original.
Run time was average 30 to 45 mins with Flat out runs.
We had 8 teams vieing for the record.
The track was indoor with Asphalt
Thier was 3 diff types of cars running,
We ran the custom CRC Pantoura
Team Brood ran a One-Off Custom Speedmerchant ( true 1/10th pan 8 cell)
Classic thunder ran a modified 2wd Tamiya 415 MS
the other team ran Tamiya TA05 based rides.
This thing was top fuel for the whole 24 hours! It was also surprisingly durable!! It was by far the most consistently fastest car on the track. The battery changes were a bit slower than other competitors touring cars, but the effeciency and speed of the car made up for it.
CRC Pantoura sets the WORLD RECORD!!
CJ
10-10-2006, 06:10 PM
#260
woooooohoooooooooo!!!!!!
what a race and what a great car.....
oh yah, CJ rules!!!!!!
what a race and what a great car.....
oh yah, CJ rules!!!!!!
10-11-2006, 05:05 PM
#261
Apogee Magnum Battery Fire
Ok this time it was not a user error, but probably a procedure that should be avoided. I bought this Apogee Magnum Battery because it was advertized by the seller to be a safer chemistry. Here is a detailed description of the incident. I charged the pack up on a FMA direct charger until it finished its fast charge and started a slow charge (which is followed by a slower charge). I removed the battery installed it in the Pantoura and was waiting for a sparring partner so I topped it off with the Astroflight charger at the rate recommended by the seller (2 C). The charger should have gone immediately to top off mode. In less than a minute the battery had ballooned to twice its original size. It had flexed the graphite top strap up about 1/2 to 3/4 inch. I unplugged it tossed the whole car to the end of the table away from the racers for further work. I decided to save the car. I put a small vent in the outershrink with the X-acto to prevent explosion. We put a towel over it. I put on glasses. I unscrewed the top strap and popped the battery out onto the concrete slab. I left it there for a few minutes, but it was not in a safe condition. I put the towel back over it and sent the X-acto deep into the guts. In about 10-15 seconds there was a loud pop (heard 150 yards away) followed by a little mushroom cloud of white smoke and the towel was on fire. Yes Red Flames. The towel was a self extinguishing material so it was not consumed. Here is a pic. This is the approximate postion of the parts when I opened the towel later. Don't change chargers. Who would have thunk it.
I have had two of these packs for 30 cycles and recently bought the new one which had 6 or 7 cycles on it when it caught fire. The two original batteries tested well when new and dropped a full .25 Volts and lost 500 mA-h in 30 cycles. The new pack was probably from the same batch as it tested indentically poor to the used packs. Probably deteriorates more from age than use. Anyway another overblown product performs miserably. I just hate that.
A Scorpion Pack which was a Lithium Cobalt Dioxide pack kept its specs much better over 30 cycles. It too ended in a fire.
I have ordered one of the Orion Avionics Packs as they are now available. They were not when I bought these.
Track report in my next post.
Ok this time it was not a user error, but probably a procedure that should be avoided. I bought this Apogee Magnum Battery because it was advertized by the seller to be a safer chemistry. Here is a detailed description of the incident. I charged the pack up on a FMA direct charger until it finished its fast charge and started a slow charge (which is followed by a slower charge). I removed the battery installed it in the Pantoura and was waiting for a sparring partner so I topped it off with the Astroflight charger at the rate recommended by the seller (2 C). The charger should have gone immediately to top off mode. In less than a minute the battery had ballooned to twice its original size. It had flexed the graphite top strap up about 1/2 to 3/4 inch. I unplugged it tossed the whole car to the end of the table away from the racers for further work. I decided to save the car. I put a small vent in the outershrink with the X-acto to prevent explosion. We put a towel over it. I put on glasses. I unscrewed the top strap and popped the battery out onto the concrete slab. I left it there for a few minutes, but it was not in a safe condition. I put the towel back over it and sent the X-acto deep into the guts. In about 10-15 seconds there was a loud pop (heard 150 yards away) followed by a little mushroom cloud of white smoke and the towel was on fire. Yes Red Flames. The towel was a self extinguishing material so it was not consumed. Here is a pic. This is the approximate postion of the parts when I opened the towel later. Don't change chargers. Who would have thunk it.
I have had two of these packs for 30 cycles and recently bought the new one which had 6 or 7 cycles on it when it caught fire. The two original batteries tested well when new and dropped a full .25 Volts and lost 500 mA-h in 30 cycles. The new pack was probably from the same batch as it tested indentically poor to the used packs. Probably deteriorates more from age than use. Anyway another overblown product performs miserably. I just hate that.
A Scorpion Pack which was a Lithium Cobalt Dioxide pack kept its specs much better over 30 cycles. It too ended in a fire.
I have ordered one of the Orion Avionics Packs as they are now available. They were not when I bought these.
Track report in my next post.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-12-2006 at 07:38 PM.
10-11-2006, 05:23 PM
#262
Originally Posted by STARSCREAM
woooooohoooooooooo!!!!!!
what a race and what a great car.....
oh yah, CJ rules!!!!!!
what a race and what a great car.....
oh yah, CJ rules!!!!!!
Couldn't have done it without your help!!
You drove awesome too, don't forget!
10-11-2006, 06:17 PM
#263
Lipo for Pan Car
John: Maybe you shpuld have a look at www.maxamps.com . They have great LipO packs, gaining a lot of respect in the rc world. They make even 12000mah packs for 1 hr run times... great quality, and very inexpensive. Also look into the Orion 4800mah Lipo packs. I have been running these for 9 months, and they are just awesome. Never had an issue and they havent worn down a bit yet. One of them actually survived a ESC meltdown and blow up with fire. It was bad, but the LIPO pack was not affected at all, exept for a little burn and black marks from the fire on the casing. They can easily fit the Pantoura, and MaxAmps makes LiPO saddle packs for cars which need them.
10-11-2006, 06:45 PM
#264
Thanks again for the Enduro race coverage. It was an exciting addition to the thread.
Track Temp 109 F
Magenta fronts with full coverage on traction compound are working well on the wide car. This improved performace on the sweeper.
I tried 3 different thicknesses of rear spoiler, all about the same size near max of the rules. The thick Spoiler (.025 inch) seemed to work the best and gave me the best forward traction on the straight and the rest of the course.
Robert (The TC guy in the last video) tried the pan car. First pack was not so good and made the same errors I made with the first run of the narrow car. Basically we drove it like a TC. A little coaching and by the second pack he was pretty fast already. Wanted a Pan Car. Agreed that the pan required you to actually drive the car more. Especially the throttle and centering of the steering after a corner.
The car is pretty hooked up on the green track by the fourth run. It rained hard yesterday.
YYhayyim- The 4700 pack is probably too tall for the car. It will require new parts to be made like in the Enduro Pantoura. 3200 mA-h gives plenty of run time. I will try an Orion pack next. They will not divulge the Chemistry. It may be a pack just like ones that have burned on me for all that I know. What I want now is more consistent voltage over 30 runs and more Fire resistance!!!!!. They promise the moon and deliver way less.
One pack seems to be enough at 2C, since you need 20 minutes in between runs for traction compound to soak in outdoors. At 1 C charge rate you might need two.
Track Temp 109 F
Magenta fronts with full coverage on traction compound are working well on the wide car. This improved performace on the sweeper.
I tried 3 different thicknesses of rear spoiler, all about the same size near max of the rules. The thick Spoiler (.025 inch) seemed to work the best and gave me the best forward traction on the straight and the rest of the course.
Robert (The TC guy in the last video) tried the pan car. First pack was not so good and made the same errors I made with the first run of the narrow car. Basically we drove it like a TC. A little coaching and by the second pack he was pretty fast already. Wanted a Pan Car. Agreed that the pan required you to actually drive the car more. Especially the throttle and centering of the steering after a corner.
The car is pretty hooked up on the green track by the fourth run. It rained hard yesterday.
YYhayyim- The 4700 pack is probably too tall for the car. It will require new parts to be made like in the Enduro Pantoura. 3200 mA-h gives plenty of run time. I will try an Orion pack next. They will not divulge the Chemistry. It may be a pack just like ones that have burned on me for all that I know. What I want now is more consistent voltage over 30 runs and more Fire resistance!!!!!. They promise the moon and deliver way less.
One pack seems to be enough at 2C, since you need 20 minutes in between runs for traction compound to soak in outdoors. At 1 C charge rate you might need two.
10-11-2006, 06:45 PM
#265
Thunderpower
Thunderpower also makes nice LiPo packs for Rc cars. They are a bit on the expensive side, but are very close to the power and quality of the Orion 4800 Platinum packs. I have run them also, and they ahve worked out very, very nicely. Never had an issue with them. I have run them time after time for months. They range from 3000mah to 8000mah.
10-11-2006, 06:56 PM
#267
Originally Posted by John Stranahan
I will try an Orion pack next. They will not divulge the Chemistry. It may be a pack just like ones that have burned on me for all that I know. What I want now is more consistent voltage over 30 runs and more Fire resistance!!!!!. They promise the moon and deliver way less.
10-11-2006, 06:56 PM
#268
Anybody can put their name on the same type of pack. What I want to buy is a different Chemistry of pack. I have tried Lithium Cobalt Dioxide and Lithium Manganeese.
Note another LiPo Battery fire report and pic up above.
Note another LiPo Battery fire report and pic up above.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 02-28-2007 at 07:56 PM.
10-11-2006, 07:13 PM
#269
Tried running the SpeedSpec today. Too bad the SpeedSpec car can only handles 4 cells. But even with 4 cells, the Novak 4.5R gets it to run like a 6.5R. Good in the infield with the 190mm Mazda 6 body, with hard Protoform wing. Very stable and cut through like a knife. Only issue is the punch off the line...its weak, due to the 4 cell. But it handled very nicely, and will test Corally CCT tomorrow, and next week an Associated RC10L3T with 6 cell or MaxAmps LiPo saddle packs. These cars should get the punch and acceleration and top speed to were it should be.
10-11-2006, 10:09 PM
#270
yep, we ran Maxamps 8000mah packs in this 24 hour enduro with our Novak 13.5 brushless system and they worked flawlessly. We entered 2 cars into the race and 10 lipo packs were on and off the charger for 24 hours. Every charge gave us 45min of runtime and the car finished third after having lead for the first 16 hours. That's when we started breaking parts and CJ's, Sean's and their teammates made it's move with the Pantoura. The lipo's were awesome!
Originally Posted by yyhayyim
John: Maybe you shpuld have a look at www.maxamps.com . They have great LipO packs, gaining a lot of respect in the rc world. They make even 12000mah packs for 1 hr run times... great quality, and very inexpensive. Also look into the Orion 4800mah Lipo packs. I have been running these for 9 months, and they are just awesome. Never had an issue and they havent worn down a bit yet. One of them actually survived a ESC meltdown and blow up with fire. It was bad, but the LIPO pack was not affected at all, exept for a little burn and black marks from the fire on the casing. They can easily fit the Pantoura, and MaxAmps makes LiPO saddle packs for cars which need them.