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Old 10-20-2016, 05:44 PM   #18421
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Earlier this year at some point I had picked up a DEX210V3 to add a different flavor to my fleet. I've been running AE equipment for a long time but was always intrigued by Durango. I want to run a winter season using all the TD vehicles I've been building but I haven't had time to really work with them at the track. So today I broke out the V3 and packed it in the truck with my B5MFL and B6d figuring it would be a good time to dial it in a bit based on my other two cars, which are on rails. I've got it set up MM4, kit setup running on an outdoor hard pack clay track. I ran three shorties, positioned rear, and I've got to say, AE has spoiled me with their kit setups. Ever since the B4.2FT an AE kit setup with proper tires will get you around the track nicely. The rest is fine tuning to your track and driving style. As it sits, my V3 was all over the place, incredibly difficult to drive. I never wrecked the car but good god I had to work hard to even stay close to my normal lines. Severe power understeer, rear end would break free left or right randomly under heavy braking, sudden violent oversteer at the very exit of a sharp but fairly fast 90 degree turn. The only thing that felt good was it's jumping and landing capabilities. Then on the last battery with 3 minutes left on my run, I downsided a double cleanly and as soon as I got back on the throttle, the car darted right and did a donut. I limped it in with the rear end dragging only to find both rear lower shock eyes had pulled completely out of the threads.

About half way through the first battery I pulled into the pits and started trying to work out the issues. If I remember correctly, I worked with the diff, the ride height and the slipper. I never did get any closer to what I wanted.

I just found this all very strange. The car really just felt all wrong. I wasn't pushing very hard, averaging 3-4 seconds per lap off the normal pace but it felt like I was trying to run hero laps. The car was just loose and very unpredictable.

The car was set up on my Hudy setup station to exactly what the manual says. All shocks were exactly the same length, zero rebound, droop screws are set for max droop (flush). The diff was properly broken in and is smooth as butter.

I was planning on debuting this car in this weekend's casual club race but no way man. I need to go back to the beginning and go through everything again. Recheck all inserts, rebuild the diff ect. I just thought this was really strange as I've never had this happen before with a new car. Other than a huge mistake during the build (which I doubt but anythings possible as no one is perfect) the only thing I can come up with is that this car, in its mid configuration, truly is for high traction, indoor tracks. Whereas the AE cars are more versatile. (My laptimes are faster with my B5M than my B5 at this track) Am I crazy or is this as weird as it seems to me?
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Old 10-20-2016, 07:02 PM   #18422
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when you say positioned rear, did you do the sideways shorty mod or do you mean shorty down the middle stock?
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Old 10-20-2016, 07:35 PM   #18423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan_r View Post
Earlier this year at some point I had picked up a DEX210V3 to add a different flavor to my fleet. I've been running AE equipment for a long time but was always intrigued by Durango. I want to run a winter season using all the TD vehicles I've been building but I haven't had time to really work with them at the track. So today I broke out the V3 and packed it in the truck with my B5MFL and B6d figuring it would be a good time to dial it in a bit based on my other two cars, which are on rails. I've got it set up MM4, kit setup running on an outdoor hard pack clay track. I ran three shorties, positioned rear, and I've got to say, AE has spoiled me with their kit setups. Ever since the B4.2FT an AE kit setup with proper tires will get you around the track nicely. The rest is fine tuning to your track and driving style. As it sits, my V3 was all over the place, incredibly difficult to drive. I never wrecked the car but good god I had to work hard to even stay close to my normal lines. Severe power understeer, rear end would break free left or right randomly under heavy braking, sudden violent oversteer at the very exit of a sharp but fairly fast 90 degree turn. The only thing that felt good was it's jumping and landing capabilities. Then on the last battery with 3 minutes left on my run, I downsided a double cleanly and as soon as I got back on the throttle, the car darted right and did a donut. I limped it in with the rear end dragging only to find both rear lower shock eyes had pulled completely out of the threads.

About half way through the first battery I pulled into the pits and started trying to work out the issues. If I remember correctly, I worked with the diff, the ride height and the slipper. I never did get any closer to what I wanted.

I just found this all very strange. The car really just felt all wrong. I wasn't pushing very hard, averaging 3-4 seconds per lap off the normal pace but it felt like I was trying to run hero laps. The car was just loose and very unpredictable.

The car was set up on my Hudy setup station to exactly what the manual says. All shocks were exactly the same length, zero rebound, droop screws are set for max droop (flush). The diff was properly broken in and is smooth as butter.

I was planning on debuting this car in this weekend's casual club race but no way man. I need to go back to the beginning and go through everything again. Recheck all inserts, rebuild the diff ect. I just thought this was really strange as I've never had this happen before with a new car. Other than a huge mistake during the build (which I doubt but anythings possible as no one is perfect) the only thing I can come up with is that this car, in its mid configuration, truly is for high traction, indoor tracks. Whereas the AE cars are more versatile. (My laptimes are faster with my B5M than my B5 at this track) Am I crazy or is this as weird as it seems to me?
The shock eyelets I have heard about before but haven't experienced it myself. The traxxas eyelets work as well. Read back a few pages.

I had similar issues you did with my car, I am in indoor dirt/clay. I would say go with MM3. It drives smoother and the rear won't slide out as easy on breaking. This car is designed for higher traction I believe but you can get it to work. It needs a little weight in the rear, that's why people were doing the sideways short mod. I got my dremel out and modded mine. Much better. For 99 buck from exotek you can get theirs. Haven't tried yet but heard good things. These shocks are a little bigger than AE so go with little heavier oil. Most go with front 2x1.6 and rear 2x1.7. I went front 3x1.4 and rear 2x1.6.
Ride height about 23-24mm.
Good luck.
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Old 10-20-2016, 08:05 PM   #18424
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Quote:
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when you say positioned rear, did you do the sideways shorty mod or do you mean shorty down the middle stock?
Shorty positioned all the way back with foam spacers up front.
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Old 10-20-2016, 08:14 PM   #18425
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Originally Posted by WallyRC View Post
The shock eyelets I have heard about before but haven't experienced it myself. The traxxas eyelets work as well. Read back a few pages.

I had similar issues you did with my car, I am in indoor dirt/clay. I would say go with MM3. It drives smoother and the rear won't slide out as easy on breaking. This car is designed for higher traction I believe but you can get it to work. It needs a little weight in the rear, that's why people were doing the sideways short mod. I got my dremel out and modded mine. Much better. For 99 buck from exotek you can get theirs. Haven't tried yet but heard good things. These shocks are a little bigger than AE so go with little heavier oil. Most go with front 2x1.6 and rear 2x1.7. I went front 3x1.4 and rear 2x1.6.
Ride height about 23-24mm.
Good luck.
If some one else handed me the car asking what I thought was wrong with it; after two or three laps I would tell them that something is wrong with their diff and that the car doesn't feel like it has enough Caster.

It really feels like a tuning issue. Traction was on the low side today but my B5M SPEC car was on rails running MM3.

I've always been concerned with convertible cars as they aren't really designed as either RM or MM. Seemed like a compromise had to be made. Apparently AE agreed.

This has me worried as I have not yet run my DEST or DESC. Both being built MM. I imagine what works and what doesn't on the DEX will carry over.

I'll throw up my setup sheet with weights/specifics ect. when I get home.
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Old 10-20-2016, 08:18 PM   #18426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan_r View Post
Shorty positioned all the way back with foam spacers up front.
So to confirm, it doesn't look like this:



but instead looks like this:



If so, that can be a big factor in what you are experiencing.
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Old 10-20-2016, 11:04 PM   #18427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain View Post
So to confirm, it doesn't look like this:



but instead looks like this:



If so, that can be a big factor in what you are experiencing.
I am running it as Durango designed it. No chassis modifications such as the sideways shorty mount. Factory battery hold down with foam blocks to take-up the space in front of the shorty.

I checked out the setup sheets available on TD and Petit to see what others are doing. One thing that stood out is that whenever the track being run on is outdoors, 1/8 scale or the traction is listed as medium or low, the car is run in RM configuration.
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Old 10-21-2016, 12:25 AM   #18428
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Originally Posted by Alan_r View Post
I am running it as Durango designed it. No chassis modifications such as the sideways shorty mount. Factory battery hold down with foam blocks to take-up the space in front of the shorty.

I checked out the setup sheets available on TD and Petit to see what others are doing. One thing that stood out is that whenever the track being run on is outdoors, 1/8 scale or the traction is listed as medium or low, the car is run in RM configuration.
As you describe the handling is how mine felt on grass with mm4 - always trying to push it beyond it limits to get the lap time. This year I switched to mm3 and it now feels much faster. In fact I would say I sometimes feel it will corner faster than I naturally drive it and I am now slowing it down. Lap times and consistency of driving is also much better.
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Old 10-21-2016, 06:52 AM   #18429
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As you describe the handling is how mine felt on grass with mm4 - always trying to push it beyond it limits to get the lap time. This year I switched to mm3 and it now feels much faster. In fact I would say I sometimes feel it will corner faster than I naturally drive it and I am now slowing it down. Lap times and consistencyof driving is also much better.
I think I'm going to put it back together as a MM3 car this time. Even though I always thought MM4 was in between RM and MM3 when talking about the traction level of the track. I know with my T5M I actually went from MM4 to MM3 because I had so much rear traction I was lifting the front tires too much. MM3 corrected this by not forcing as much weight transfer, thereby reducing rear traction and solving the issue.

The V3 had none of the corner speed expected of a MM car but none of the traction of a RM.

Yeah I haven't come up withuch regarding the shock eyes pulling out. I've never seem both do it. The left came out completely and the right had ripped out to the last thread. Another 10' and it would have come out all the way. I've got a bunch of trees left over from the DEST and DESC rebuilds so I've got spare #3 shock ends. The spares I have seem to be made from a darker plastic, almost black compared to the DEX kit trees which are grey. Hopefully I don't see this issue again.

Thanks for the commentary guys I don't usually turn to the internet for tuning issues but no one around here runs TD cars or has any experience with them. Hell, when I showed up after building it just to test it and make sure it ran, everybody was like "man where did you find that old thing" ...I was like this car was just released!!! They had no idea. That day I only drove it down the straight and looped back into the pits so I didn't notice any of the issues I'm having.

BTW, what's this rumor mill I'm hearing about TD going away? They only recently released the new 1/8 stuff along with the DEC and 410. Unless those cars bombed......
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Old 10-21-2016, 08:26 AM   #18430
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I hope this is ledgable, I'm not high speed and still use a pen and paper.
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Durango DEX210 Thread-imag0106.jpg  
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Old 10-21-2016, 08:29 AM   #18431
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Where did you hear they were going away?

Personally, I would do the mod shown in the pics, I really liked how it performed.

Dino's setups would be where I would start, they work excellent.

Also, try the shocks on the rear of the tower.
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Old 10-21-2016, 10:15 AM   #18432
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Originally Posted by Alan_r View Post
BTW, what's this rumor mill I'm hearing about TD going away? They only recently released the new 1/8 stuff along with the DEC and 410. Unless those cars bombed......
Yeah, that's the rumor and its primarily do to their cars being discontinued or backordered everywhere. Kinda hard to take them seriously when you can't buy their kits.
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Old 10-21-2016, 10:48 AM   #18433
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Where did you hear they were going away?r.
It was here earlier in the thread. Rumors usually start from something someone heard and they believed it was credible. Whether it was misconstrued or not or was simply a guess is the question.

Anyway, wasn't the sideways shorty mod more for high grip clay tracks? Indoor setups maybe? I seek out and drive only on outdoor dirt/clay tracks. Usually 1/8 scale dominated. They are the only true off road tracks left...🖕lol. I probably should have started this car out RM but that's so 2010 lol...no really, I think this car will work MM here, it's just that something is wrong. I looked at my setup closely again and nothing stands out as a huge red flag that would explain the handling of the car.
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:23 AM   #18434
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It was here earlier in the thread. Rumors usually start from something someone heard and they believed it was credible. Whether it was misconstrued or not or was simply a guess is the question.

Anyway, wasn't the sideways shorty mod more for high grip clay tracks? Indoor setups maybe? I seek out and drive only on outdoor dirt/clay tracks. Usually 1/8 scale dominated. They are the only true off road tracks left...🖕lol. I probably should have started this car out RM but that's so 2010 lol...no really, I think this car will work MM here, it's just that something is wrong. I looked at my setup closely again and nothing stands out as a huge red flag that would explain the handling of the car.
I notice you are running (if I am reading it correctly) zero anti squat, I run that with mm3 but when I tried it with mm4 it turned it into a drift monster. I think mm4 give you too much weight transfer so you get too much camber gain exiting corners.
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:47 AM   #18435
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Instead of running in RM, have you tried moving your shocks behind the rear arms? That shifts the weight back a little without going full RM. I ran that for a bit this summer before our outdoor track shutdown.
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