Leisure Hours..VTA racing outside track
01-11-2011, 08:43 AM
#46
Regardless, I think it would be a major mistake to deviate from the existing USVTA rules for a handful of people who essentially want to create a RCGT class with vintage muscle car bodies. And an "outlaw" class in addition to the widely accepted T/A class would also be a big mistake, as you then dilute the class participation down even further.
Stick to what works—and this formula WORKS. I guarantee that if you stick to the rules, publicize the fact that there is a true USVTA class at Leisure this summer, and market that in the right places, you will absolutely have plenty of racers participating all summer.
I love the on-road track, and I know what you mean by "sleepy" concerning the size and an electric car—I have run a 5.5t there and by myself, even that was boring. But just put 10-16 of these cars on track at once, and you will never hear the word boring spoken an entire race day.
01-11-2011, 08:56 AM
#47
Let me just clear this up for you.
The 25.5 was needed because the cars were actually going too fast for most situations. Unfortunately, most people are running on 80x40 carpet tracks, and they don't have a great facility like leisure.
This wasn't done to "make Novak more money". Novak is the only motor since #1 nobody wants a motor of the week situation and #2 they will offer either a discounted exchange on a old Novak motor, or you can buy a stator if you have a Ballistic. They also were they only ones who made a 25.5
I would say 95% of the racers in VTA have radios that have "EPAs" If it's too fast you adjust the EPA (that's what I did at Strictly), you don't mandate that people buy another motor and leave the basically useless 21.5 that they purchased for VTA in their bag. "The only ones that made a 25.5", how convenient
17.5's are a dime a dozen, try finding a used 25.5.
As far as tires, the treaded ones were the only thing available when the class was developed. HPI does actually have a slick and another treaded tire, however, it was decided to stay with one tire so there would be no need to show up with multiple kinds of tires. No comment.
All of the rules do work. The reason you did not see a turnout weekly last year is the unfortunate fact that there are not anywhere near as many on road racers anymore, and most of them were at Strictly RC. When the Asphalt Assault race was held, there were over 100 entries at Leisure. Everyone likes the track, but if they are not sure if they will race, then it hurts the turnout.
The 25.5 was needed because the cars were actually going too fast for most situations. Unfortunately, most people are running on 80x40 carpet tracks, and they don't have a great facility like leisure.
This wasn't done to "make Novak more money". Novak is the only motor since #1 nobody wants a motor of the week situation and #2 they will offer either a discounted exchange on a old Novak motor, or you can buy a stator if you have a Ballistic. They also were they only ones who made a 25.5
I would say 95% of the racers in VTA have radios that have "EPAs" If it's too fast you adjust the EPA (that's what I did at Strictly), you don't mandate that people buy another motor and leave the basically useless 21.5 that they purchased for VTA in their bag. "The only ones that made a 25.5", how convenient
17.5's are a dime a dozen, try finding a used 25.5.As far as tires, the treaded ones were the only thing available when the class was developed. HPI does actually have a slick and another treaded tire, however, it was decided to stay with one tire so there would be no need to show up with multiple kinds of tires. No comment.
All of the rules do work. The reason you did not see a turnout weekly last year is the unfortunate fact that there are not anywhere near as many on road racers anymore, and most of them were at Strictly RC. When the Asphalt Assault race was held, there were over 100 entries at Leisure. Everyone likes the track, but if they are not sure if they will race, then it hurts the turnout.
I'm sure if you want to run your VTA spec car in the "Outlaw VTA" class it would be no problem, if too few VTA Spec cars showed up to race. I'm sure it would still be competitive.
01-11-2011, 09:55 AM
#48
WOW!! This is turning into an arguement as opposed to a discussion! With decent points on both sides, although the "want to go faster down the straightaway" is a weak point. With the new 25.5 rules there is no final drive ratio restrictions, so you could possibly gear your car to run as fast or even a bit faster than the old 21.5 rules! It never bothered me on the straight at Leisure, (it was a good time to stretch the fingers) and the rest of the track was just fine. But let me ask: Would you rather race the same 5 guys running an "Outlaw VTA" or race more people that are running under the 25.5 rules? I'll take the 25.5 group, even if I have to travel up to Norridge to do it. (and I live 10 minutes from LHR)
01-11-2011, 02:31 PM
#51
What kind of logic is that? If they don't come out, they absolutely CAN'T race, If they come out, there is a chance they can race if not, they can practice on a world class track. If everyone stays home nobody will ever race!
I'm sure if you want to run your VTA spec car in the "Outlaw VTA" class it would be no problem, if too few VTA Spec cars showed up to race. I'm sure it would still be competitive.
I'm sure if you want to run your VTA spec car in the "Outlaw VTA" class it would be no problem, if too few VTA Spec cars showed up to race. I'm sure it would still be competitive.
01-11-2011, 02:47 PM
#52
I would say 95% of the racers in VTA have radios that have "EPAs" If it's too fast you adjust the EPA (that's what I did at Strictly), you don't mandate that people buy another motor and leave the basically useless 21.5 that they purchased for VTA in their bag. "The only ones that made a 25.5", how convenient 17.5's are a dime a dozen, try finding a used 25.5.
This was all thought of before hand.
As usual, I can't help myself, so let me just add that this is a spec class. The idea is a slower class, that people can race closely, and enjoy driving the car. The cars should be able to be driven as fast as they will go by everybody, not as fast as you can hang on to. The difference is that almost everybody can handle the car and RACE, not hang onto the car and let faster people by.
When i started racing this class, it was definitely slower than 21.5/lipo. The side effect was that a ton of people were competitive. As everything got faster, that number dwindled. This is not an opinion, this is what happened right in front of my eyes, and tons of other guys who told me the same thing. So something had to be done, and so far, it has been successful.
This is the class. I'm not trying to tell you you are wrong with what you are doing. Have fun with it. At the same time, if you don't like USVTA rules, fine, don't race them, but don't tell me everything was fine with what was going on. There were problems that had to be addressed.
01-11-2011, 03:31 PM
#54
.Man, the thought of an 8 hour VTA team enduro race on that track gives me
goose bumps
.An interesting data point: The AA VTA race had the cars running mid 17 second laptimes, expand to the long straight and the 25.5 and maybe we are at 21-22 seconds? The 17.5 SCT laptimes from DEC 2010 results are about 21-22 seconds... Do we onroad racers have severe A.D.D? Food for thought I guess.
Jimmy
01-11-2011, 05:57 PM
#56
The reality is, that with today's inflated gas prices, limited racing budgets and finite time, people WILL NOT show up at a track if they aren't convinced that there will be other cars for them to race with. I won't. Random, vague class structure and rules that are not similar to what the rest of the country is using will keep people away. You can't make no effort to build a class, then blame the racers for not supporting it.
Like it or not, but if you are waiting for people to "just show up and make a class," it's not going to happen very much anymore. At least not consistent enough to allow the class to thrive.
The ONLY way to build consistent class participation is to follow a consistent schedule with consistent rules that are consistent with other tracks. Then tell everyone about it.
See a pattern?
Build it, and they will come.
And Jimmy, I'm in for a VTA 8-hour enduro at LH.
Like it or not, but if you are waiting for people to "just show up and make a class," it's not going to happen very much anymore. At least not consistent enough to allow the class to thrive.
The ONLY way to build consistent class participation is to follow a consistent schedule with consistent rules that are consistent with other tracks. Then tell everyone about it.
See a pattern?
Build it, and they will come.
And Jimmy, I'm in for a VTA 8-hour enduro at LH.
01-11-2011, 06:06 PM
#57
This is the way it is. Sorry you don't like it, but I have seen how it works, and it works great. Again, is the 21.5 useless? As it turns out no. You can exchange it with novak for a 25.5 (or any number of other motors/winds), you can keep it and run the new ROAR 21.5 sportsman class, or you can sell it to someone who will want it.
This was all thought of before hand.
As usual, I can't help myself, so let me just add that this is a spec class. The idea is a slower class, that people can race closely, and enjoy driving the car. The cars should be able to be driven as fast as they will go by everybody, not as fast as you can hang on to. The difference is that almost everybody can handle the car and RACE, not hang onto the car and let faster people by.
When i started racing this class, it was definitely slower than 21.5/lipo. The side effect was that a ton of people were competitive. As everything got faster, that number dwindled. This is not an opinion, this is what happened right in front of my eyes, and tons of other guys who told me the same thing. So something had to be done, and so far, it has been successful.
This is the class. I'm not trying to tell you you are wrong with what you are doing. Have fun with it. At the same time, if you don't like USVTA rules, fine, don't race them, but don't tell me everything was fine with what was going on. There were problems that had to be addressed.
This was all thought of before hand.
As usual, I can't help myself, so let me just add that this is a spec class. The idea is a slower class, that people can race closely, and enjoy driving the car. The cars should be able to be driven as fast as they will go by everybody, not as fast as you can hang on to. The difference is that almost everybody can handle the car and RACE, not hang onto the car and let faster people by.
When i started racing this class, it was definitely slower than 21.5/lipo. The side effect was that a ton of people were competitive. As everything got faster, that number dwindled. This is not an opinion, this is what happened right in front of my eyes, and tons of other guys who told me the same thing. So something had to be done, and so far, it has been successful.
This is the class. I'm not trying to tell you you are wrong with what you are doing. Have fun with it. At the same time, if you don't like USVTA rules, fine, don't race them, but don't tell me everything was fine with what was going on. There were problems that had to be addressed.
01-12-2011, 10:31 AM
#59
This fragmentation is destroying the class, 4+ months before the outdoor season even starts.