Points Series that Drops Stragglers
10-13-2010, 03:56 AM
#1
Points Series that Drops Stragglers
Let's say you have a points series. It is some number of races with some number of drops. Let's say for example 10 races with 4 drops. So, your best 6 races count for points.
Let's say the typical scoring method is being used, where top finisher for the day gets 100 points, 2nd place gets 99 points, and so forth.
Clearly, if one of the race days has a light turnout (fast dogs went to the regionals), you might get lucky because you normally come in 9th (92 points), but that day you can come in 2nd (99 points).
But let's say one day the really big dogs from out of town come to the points series and push you down to 21st (88 points). Did they just waste your day, points-wise. They aren't in the series. Their points don't matter to them. They just heard about the barbeque and came for one day.
So, is that just your tough luck? Or, is there something that might be done: what if the series had a formula/rule that racers who did not race in a certain number of races, say in this example the number is maybe 6 will have their scores for the series backed out of all race day computations for rankings. Complicated? Not in my eyes. Fair? I think so. Keeps interest a little more lively towards the end of the series? Maybe.
What do you think?
Let's say the typical scoring method is being used, where top finisher for the day gets 100 points, 2nd place gets 99 points, and so forth.
Clearly, if one of the race days has a light turnout (fast dogs went to the regionals), you might get lucky because you normally come in 9th (92 points), but that day you can come in 2nd (99 points).
But let's say one day the really big dogs from out of town come to the points series and push you down to 21st (88 points). Did they just waste your day, points-wise. They aren't in the series. Their points don't matter to them. They just heard about the barbeque and came for one day.
So, is that just your tough luck? Or, is there something that might be done: what if the series had a formula/rule that racers who did not race in a certain number of races, say in this example the number is maybe 6 will have their scores for the series backed out of all race day computations for rankings. Complicated? Not in my eyes. Fair? I think so. Keeps interest a little more lively towards the end of the series? Maybe.
What do you think?
10-13-2010, 04:14 AM
#2
It is very possible with both Scoring Pro and Autoscore to not count people with say just 1 race in the series, but...I have found that anomaly of little consequence to the big picture.
You mention a pretty short season, with 10 races, I typically run 12 or more and it typically comes out that those that run the compete series take the top honors, those who miss a few are down the list and those visitor racers are sorted to the bottom.
Points are relative and on those days, on a curve. Some days the curve goes up (when the "top dogs" go somewhere else) and some days swung down (when a blip occurs and there is a huge turn out). But in the end, typically there are 15 to 20 people really in a points challenge and trying hard, those folks are normally up to the top either way.
15 years+ doing this, so I do have some experience with the systems and results. I can tell who will be in the top by mid season, they are there every week.
Now I will say, if we have a special race that will draw the 100+ to the track, we normally do not score in the series as they are two different club events, as those days have their own awards, we jump over it and continue the series the next week. But I presume your reference is for that week before a big event, where there is a bump up in attendance for some who want extra practice on a specific track. Again, I've found it causes little change in the final outcome of a 12 week (or 10 or 15) week season.
My 2 cents worth.
Bill
HVF Racing Team
You mention a pretty short season, with 10 races, I typically run 12 or more and it typically comes out that those that run the compete series take the top honors, those who miss a few are down the list and those visitor racers are sorted to the bottom.
Points are relative and on those days, on a curve. Some days the curve goes up (when the "top dogs" go somewhere else) and some days swung down (when a blip occurs and there is a huge turn out). But in the end, typically there are 15 to 20 people really in a points challenge and trying hard, those folks are normally up to the top either way.
15 years+ doing this, so I do have some experience with the systems and results. I can tell who will be in the top by mid season, they are there every week.
Now I will say, if we have a special race that will draw the 100+ to the track, we normally do not score in the series as they are two different club events, as those days have their own awards, we jump over it and continue the series the next week. But I presume your reference is for that week before a big event, where there is a bump up in attendance for some who want extra practice on a specific track. Again, I've found it causes little change in the final outcome of a 12 week (or 10 or 15) week season.
My 2 cents worth.
Bill
HVF Racing Team
10-13-2010, 04:39 AM
#3
Thanks.
I was thinking about like what you mention or possibly including big races as part of an ongoing points series, so it counts as both a big race and a points race.
On a side note, it looks like attendance can taper off at the series end. I like the idea of the last race being double points. What do you think? Maybe spreading the prizes among more of the top spots?
I was thinking about like what you mention or possibly including big races as part of an ongoing points series, so it counts as both a big race and a points race.
On a side note, it looks like attendance can taper off at the series end. I like the idea of the last race being double points. What do you think? Maybe spreading the prizes among more of the top spots?
10-13-2010, 06:13 AM
#4
Double points is a great idea for the last race of a series. Reward the guys that have supported your series throughout the season.
10-13-2010, 07:06 AM
#5
Good idea to have a final race with more incentive like double points or some other prizes. As for the out of town ringers, it's really of no consequence as long as the series regulars are all there to pick up whatever points they can since they will all accumulate points over the series.
10-13-2010, 09:35 AM
#6
Tech Adept
I think I get what you are saying. What you have to remember is if the top ten(or whatever) at an event are out of town racers, then the usual top 10 regulars are all at an equal disadvantage.
On the other hand, if one of the regulars does well and places within the out of town guys, then he gets a bonus. Good for him and why punish him for that by handicapping everyone else? For those guys who don't show up, 0 points is 0 points.
If this:
Pro Racer : 100
Pro Racer : 99
Pro Racer : 98
Local Racer A : 97
Pro Racer : 96
Pro Racer : 95
Pro Racer : 94
Local Racer B : 93
Local Racer C : 92
Local Racer D : 91
becomes this:
Local Racer A : 100 (+3)
Local Racer B : 99 (+6)
Local Racer C : 98 (+6)
Local Racer D : 97 (+6)
Local Racer A, who did really well, then gets penalized 3 points (technically)
Otherwise, you'd have to remove the number of ringers, and give everyone the same increase in points. Local Racer A then gets 103 for that race. But if you do that it no longer matters since everyone shifted across the board equally. If I add 10,100,1000 points to everyone, it won't matter
Still, I think it would be interesting to run the numbers and see how it shakes up the standings. Maybe grab some points data from last year and run it? My guess is it won't make a bit of difference.
On the other hand, if one of the regulars does well and places within the out of town guys, then he gets a bonus. Good for him and why punish him for that by handicapping everyone else? For those guys who don't show up, 0 points is 0 points.
If this:
Pro Racer : 100
Pro Racer : 99
Pro Racer : 98
Local Racer A : 97
Pro Racer : 96
Pro Racer : 95
Pro Racer : 94
Local Racer B : 93
Local Racer C : 92
Local Racer D : 91
becomes this:
Local Racer A : 100 (+3)
Local Racer B : 99 (+6)
Local Racer C : 98 (+6)
Local Racer D : 97 (+6)
Local Racer A, who did really well, then gets penalized 3 points (technically)
Otherwise, you'd have to remove the number of ringers, and give everyone the same increase in points. Local Racer A then gets 103 for that race. But if you do that it no longer matters since everyone shifted across the board equally. If I add 10,100,1000 points to everyone, it won't matter
Still, I think it would be interesting to run the numbers and see how it shakes up the standings. Maybe grab some points data from last year and run it? My guess is it won't make a bit of difference.
10-13-2010, 09:59 AM
#7
So the points would never be accurate?
If someone is in race 1 they wouldn't be out of it until they miss 6. So on week 7 the week 1 points would change? Or any week that has a one-time racer.
Why not just have a private, invite-only series if outsiders disrupt the points that much?
If someone is in race 1 they wouldn't be out of it until they miss 6. So on week 7 the week 1 points would change? Or any week that has a one-time racer.
Why not just have a private, invite-only series if outsiders disrupt the points that much?
10-13-2010, 10:28 AM
#8
If someone showed up to the track on a what they assumed was a normal race day and found out that it was invite only, I would bet that they'll never show up again. Not good in this economy.
10-13-2010, 11:08 AM
#10
I actually prefer limiting the number of cars that earn points. Makes making the A Main more rewarding.
case in point
1 - 10
2- 7
3 - 6
4 - 5
5 - 4
6- 3
7 - 2
8 - 1
case in point
1 - 10
2- 7
3 - 6
4 - 5
5 - 4
6- 3
7 - 2
8 - 1
10-14-2010, 03:55 AM
#11
Now I see, Koolwhip. If you were going to do that, you could offer an upfront package -- sign up to be in the series and pay, for example, 8 races worth and you get to be in all 10. No -- scratch that idea (why didn't I just hit the backspace key) -- have a perfect attendance award -- if you attended all the other races, the last one is free for you. Something like that.
10-14-2010, 03:58 AM
#12
Wow! That is Spartan. I know I'm expecting a few 20-truck days next year, so maybe half of my drivers would feel "empty". Even when I am not near the top (like, often), I like to see my points relative to my rivals and try to climb up that one extra position. If I were 23rd, I'd be shooting for 22nd.
10-14-2010, 04:54 AM
#13
Wow! That is Spartan. I know I'm expecting a few 20-truck days next year, so maybe half of my drivers would feel "empty". Even when I am not near the top (like, often), I like to see my points relative to my rivals and try to climb up that one extra position. If I were 23rd, I'd be shooting for 22nd.
10-14-2010, 05:10 AM
#14
i feel the same way. and if points are only awarded in the a, people may leave before mains, if they don't make the a.. aaand i think every position matters. i pay extra money on series days, not because racing is any different, but because it's more fun when points are involved.. basically if points were only given in say the a, and there was a turnout of 20 in my class, i'd save my money for a non-series day.. maybe that's just because i drive like bob lol, jk
I'm thinking about 10 race days in 2011, with all of them being in an Outback points series, but maybe 2 of those races being also part of a multi-track series. That means on those 2 days, you might be part of a TriCity or some such series, but also be getting points for the Outback series. That is part of where my original post was stemming from.
While we're here, what do you think about this:
100 points for first, then 99, 98, ... . +1 for TQ
(a normal way around here)
10 races, keep the 6 best, for each race you drop, +1 pt
this means if you attend 10 races, you drop 4, you get +4 points total
Last race of the year is double-points
this means we will compute as if there were 11 races
with the last race filling up 2 of those slots with the same score
it would not be used to muck up the +1 point per dropped race above
because that is dropped race days
If you raced all the other races, your 10th race day is a freebie.
Oh, to add a note, each race day not part of a bigger series is recommended donation of $10 for one class and $15 for unlimited classes.
Make sure I got that double points idea straight.
10-14-2010, 05:43 AM
#15
That's good to know. I am planning on focusing more on points series in 2011, so I'm just throwing ideas around before time comes to write down the rules.
I'm thinking about 10 race days in 2011, with all of them being in an Outback points series, but maybe 2 of those races being also part of a multi-track series. That means on those 2 days, you might be part of a TriCity or some such series, but also be getting points for the Outback series. That is part of where my original post was stemming from.
While we're here, what do you think about this:
100 points for first, then 99, 98, ... . +1 for TQ
(a normal way around here)
10 races, keep the 6 best, for each race you drop, +1 pt
this means if you attend 10 races, you drop 4, you get +4 points total
Last race of the year is double-points
this means we will compute as if there were 11 races
with the last race filling up 2 of those slots with the same score
it would not be used to muck up the +1 point per dropped race above
because that is dropped race days
If you raced all the other races, your 10th race day is a freebie.
Oh, to add a note, each race day not part of a bigger series is recommended donation of $10 for one class and $15 for unlimited classes.
Make sure I got that double points idea straight.
I'm thinking about 10 race days in 2011, with all of them being in an Outback points series, but maybe 2 of those races being also part of a multi-track series. That means on those 2 days, you might be part of a TriCity or some such series, but also be getting points for the Outback series. That is part of where my original post was stemming from.
While we're here, what do you think about this:
100 points for first, then 99, 98, ... . +1 for TQ
(a normal way around here)
10 races, keep the 6 best, for each race you drop, +1 pt
this means if you attend 10 races, you drop 4, you get +4 points total
Last race of the year is double-points
this means we will compute as if there were 11 races
with the last race filling up 2 of those slots with the same score
it would not be used to muck up the +1 point per dropped race above
because that is dropped race days
If you raced all the other races, your 10th race day is a freebie.
Oh, to add a note, each race day not part of a bigger series is recommended donation of $10 for one class and $15 for unlimited classes.
Make sure I got that double points idea straight.