Go Back  R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Vintage Forum
Official Vintage Offroad Class Rules Discussion Thread. >

Official Vintage Offroad Class Rules Discussion Thread.

Like Tree5Likes
  • 1 Post By Tamiyadan
  • 1 Post By Tamiyadan
  • 1 Post By SocalSnakeEyes
  • 2 Post By fredswain

Official Vintage Offroad Class Rules Discussion Thread.

Reply

Old 12-21-2017, 12:21 AM
  #1  
Tech Master
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
SocalSnakeEyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Fresno, CA 4th & Lonely
Posts: 1,390
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default Official Vintage Offroad Class Rules Discussion Thread.

I offer up my E-mail to be flooded by reply notices freeing the big rc of his. He probably hates us for hijacking his thread anyway. This discussion continues his Rules for vintage class thread. Here we can expand on ideas brought up such as eras by Tamiyadan, use of Vintage Offroad Nationals rules and use of newer parts by RonF and Teamrule and battery and motor rules.
Please, use this thread like adults and talk over our differences. Thank you.

So, with that said, I will offer up thoughts on how a vintage race day should go. There will need to be changes made to this. Vehicles will need to be added or maybe moved. Parts for each added or removed, ect.

Base Rules for all classes:

1) All vehicles must be as factory. No hybrid Vehicles.

2) Any use of upgrade parts will be for replacement as per Lack of Replacement Part or Balance Of Power Rules. Factory upgrade parts that came with kit are permitted. No mid-motor conversions will be allowed.
I.E. Slipper upgrade over alloy transmission gears. Or replacement of gear differential with ball differential if offered at time of vehicle's production.

3) Alloy control arms, caster blocks, hubs and bumpers are not permitted at any time. Motor plates, hinge pins, hinge pin braces, shocks, tie rods, bulkheads and control arm pivot mounts in alloy are permitted to extend longevity of vehicle but most be direct replacement parts for that vehicle.

4) Balance Of Power (BOR). If vehicle is found to need a upgrade part to meet avg. lap time for class or for durability to finish race, all vehicles of same type will be allowed to run part. Only up to specs of other vehicles in class. If part offers unfair advantage but is only option, weight will be added in 1/4 oz increments. Approved alloy parts maybe substituted for this so long as it does not further improve lap times.

5) Lack of Replacement Part (LRP). If part is unavailable from any company in any-form, including Ebay or private 3D printer, part maybe replaced with closest match that will have least effect on original performance. Owner will have burden of proof of LRP. Approved replacement parts will apply to any vehicle of that make if part is found to be unavailable.

6) All vehicles must meet min ROAR weight rules for class at time of there production.

7) All bushed motors will be allowed ball bearings to match brushless motors per BOP & LRP rules. Brushed ESCs and motors from time of class are encouraged over brushless systems for period correctness.

8) All Ni-Mh batteries will be 3000 or 3300 mAh 6-cell stick packs. Lipo packs will be ROAR Approved hard case stick packs of 2S size not exceeding 5000 mAh. All batteries have a 1C max charge rate. Saddle packs will be allowed if required per lay-out of vehicle.

9) All vehicles will go though tech for weight, period correctness, class and pre vehicle BOP/LRP rules.

10) No unnecessary contact. Damage caused by avoidable contact will be paid by driver that caused contact. A lost of race position will be incurred as well. "Rubbing is Racing" but we are here to have fun with our old toys not, win no matter what. That's what the "Now" vehicles are for.

Eras, Classes and, Vehicles:


Historic 1984 and back 2wd class only

Brushed Motor TBA or ROAR fixed 0 deg. timing ESC with 25.5 brushless motor. NiMh battery.

Examples:

AE: RC10/T Gold chassis (No, A and AB stamped vehicles)

Kyosho: Scorpion & Tomahawk

Tamiya: Hornet, Rough Rider & Sand Scorcher


Classic 1985-1993 2wd and 4wd classes

Brushed motor TBA or ROAR fixed 0 deg timing ESC with 21.5 brushless motor. NiMh battery

Examples:

AE: RC10/T Black or Graphite (B, C, '94 Worlds Car and, TQ10), RC10/MIP 4-10 4wd car

Losi: Jrx 2, Jrx-T, Jrx-Pro, Jrx-Pro SE and LX-T

Schumacher: Cat 4wd

Kyosho: Ultima

Traxxas: Cat, Sledgehammer, Radicator, Hawk/2, TRX Eagle, Blue Eagle/LS, TRX-1 & 3, and LS-2


Vintage 1994-2002 2wd & 4wd

Rebuildable brushed 27T 24 deg ROAR motor or ROAR 0 deg ESC and 17.5 brushless motor. NiMh battery

Examples:

AE: RC10 B/T2, B/T3

Losi: XX/XXT, XX/XXT 'cr', XX4/XX4 HM, XXX/XXXT Up to BK2 & MF2 and, Speed T RTR

Traxxas: TCP, SRT, *Rustler, *Bandit. *G-10 Graphite chassis and RPM Transmission case allowed per BOP.


Late Model 2003-2008 2wd & 4wd

Rebuildable ROAR 19T fixed timing motor or ROAR 0 deg timing ESC with 13.5 motor. ROAR listed hard case 2S Li-Po not exceeding 5000 mAh.

Examples:
AE: RC10 B/T4 & 4.1 RTR with motor change

Losi: XXX & XXXT 'CR' Up to 2010 model.


Toy Class 2000 and back

Just for fun

All stock 9.6V & 6V Toy RC Cars & Trucks

Examples:

Tyco RCs

Nikko RCs



These are just thoughts and I would like to see what you have to say about them. There are things to be added as I said. Monster Trucks aka "Heavy Metal" class needs to be put in. Rules for "Historic" here can be more like those of the Vintage Offroad Nationals. Maybe together we can come up with rules and classes that can be used as a base for all "vintage" races or added to ROAR rule book for all to use.

Thank you for looking and your thoughts.

Last edited by SocalSnakeEyes; 12-23-2017 at 01:37 AM.
SocalSnakeEyes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2017, 01:44 AM
  #2  
Tech Master
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
SocalSnakeEyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Fresno, CA 4th & Lonely
Posts: 1,390
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default No One!!


Last edited by SocalSnakeEyes; 12-23-2017 at 01:22 PM.
SocalSnakeEyes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2017, 12:49 PM
  #3  
Tech Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 447
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

delete
DennyP likes this.

Last edited by Tamiyadan; 04-17-2019 at 08:58 AM.
Tamiyadan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2017, 03:43 PM
  #4  
Tech Regular
iTrader: (9)
 
RonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Puyallup, WA
Posts: 250
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Vonats rules are a start. The classic class is good for early Tamiyas to run. Then the limiting of the two most influential (in my opinion) chassis in original A stamp short arm Rc10 and Jrx2.( I think that would be what I would do, since rere parts are a lot more available now than trying to get some others other than worlds car for me. )
After that a lot of different chassis came out, not to mention the aftermarket parts available, mod kits etc.
So I would say hard to police/tech inspect cars after a more basic Classic class since we used whatever parts to make em work back then.
As was mentioned, years would be hard. then teching for correct period parts. I don't think we are even close to discussing these rules yet.
RonF is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2017, 04:28 PM
  #5  
Tech Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 447
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

delete
SocalSnakeEyes likes this.

Last edited by Tamiyadan; 04-17-2019 at 08:59 AM.
Tamiyadan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2017, 10:46 PM
  #6  
Tech Master
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
SocalSnakeEyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Fresno, CA 4th & Lonely
Posts: 1,390
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

One thing to keep in mind is that some of this stuff is just not around anymore. I would not have the first clue where to get a new MSC for any of the cars listed or to be listed. I looked because I wanted that as a rule for "Historic". And if the rules require a certain type of part then it needs to be available to someone who just got the car as a roller. I would love to see a bunch of Novak 410s or Tekin G12s in those year classes but, where would you find one if you needed one? And forget getting it fixed. The only reason I listed Brushless at all was ease of finding parts and less upkeep. We will have our hands full just keeping the cars themselves going. However, handout or SPEC ESCs, motors and Batteries would motors that keep costs down could be a good idea. Finding the 1600 mAh batteries you speck of in NiCd or NiMh is not going to be a easy find either. Most packs that small are 2/3 cells not Sub-C cells now days. It is one thing to require the Vehicle to be current for time frame but things we know do not keep well i.e. batteries we can't enforce rule to use if they are not available now.

If only brushed motors are to be ran then here ideas for Spec electronics.

ESCs could be ones like Traxxas XL-5. They can be had all over for $85ish and Reedy SC550 that run About $46. Both have different driving modes and can run Lipos. (Because people still may want to just have fun at the park with there old cars or run practice laps with wight added Lipos and not use there race batteries or change ESCs all the time.) The Reedy is easier to spec for what program and battery it is set for and would be my pick between the two.

Motors could be sealed can 540s like Traxxas 20T Stinger $19 or Axial 27T 540 $16. Others from Tamiya or Yokomo could be looked in to as well.

Batteries. In my first post I listed 3000 or 3300 stick packs. I base that off having just got 4 3300mAh packs from Venom for $75. That is something that will keeps costs down letting more people race. These packs are clear so it is easy to see the cells in the pack for tech reasons. They also have 4 different universal adapters so it will not matter what plug is on a persons ESC or Charger and should fit in 90% of the cars that would be at the track. Also, servos and radio systems now need a larger amount of power from the batteries. If a back when we ran 1200 to 1800 mAh batteries we just got 4mins out of a pack now with the servos taking more power now we may only get 3 to 3 1/2 minutes out of the same packs. Something else to think about, many of the tracks are now bigger in overall size with the advent of 1/8th electric buggies. So as a race dictator you would need to think of such things when you lay down rules for a class. The fact we can use a battery that will allow for five to ten minute practice run times is nice. It leaves gearing as a bigger option. Something everyone can change on there cars. Not that I'm against spec charging/discharging everyone's batteries but, there is just no time for that kind of tech at a race.

I'm not trying to butt heads with anyone or make like I have final say. Heck, I would have never been able to pull amp numbers in given time frames out of my hat like that for ESCs and batteries. And was there for at least some of that time. ('94 on). I love the input and want more. That how things get done. Just remember that the rules need to fair, keep cost down where they can keep people coming and, be easy for racers and track/race dictators to follow. As well as let everyone have fun at the races. The number one important thing.
DennyP likes this.

Last edited by SocalSnakeEyes; 12-24-2017 at 11:03 PM.
SocalSnakeEyes is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2017, 09:08 PM
  #7  
Tech Regular
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 447
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

delete

Last edited by Tamiyadan; 04-17-2019 at 08:59 AM.
Tamiyadan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2018, 07:54 AM
  #8  
Tech Adept
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 120
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

I'd love to race a Tamiya King Cab. Just upgrade the troublesome diff.
puffdogg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 02:54 PM
  #9  
Tech Apprentice
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 87
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

i wish i still had my Optima Mid SE. It was fun racing back in the day until the lazer came out.
rock-rod is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 03:55 PM
  #10  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,766
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I have a 5 link JRX2 with a Hobbywing 21.5T Justock setup in it. I can with absolute certainty that it is comparable to the speed that old 27 turn stock brushed motors on 6 cell nicads had back in 1988 when the car came out. It is a more than fair approximation. 17.5 motors would be faster than what we had in stock back then. I sold all of my brushed motors and electronics and non-lithium batteries and will never buy anymore. Most of my collection is vintage. The 21.5T setup is comparable in performance but with added runtime and decreased maintenance related headaches.
DennyP and RonF like this.
fredswain is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2018, 03:22 PM
  #11  
Tech Adept
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 105
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

i have my tamiya fox's that i am get ready to run in a vintage race
truck25 is offline  
Reply With Quote

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:
You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service