ALTOONA RACEWAY FORUM
07-26-2009, 03:35 PM
#5191
Hi JD. At last check there will be enough to run them. As long as there are three there, you guys will race.
6 minute qualifiers, 10 minute main. These same rules apply:
ALTOONA RACEWAY
TRAXXAS SLASH STOCK SPEC CLASS
RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
Bone stock trucks (can change out receiver to use another radio)
Only hopups are alum shock Traxxas alum shock caps #2667 from Traxxas
Stock or Proline Slash bodies only
Any 2 cell 7.4volt lipo or 6 cell NIMH pack
Can change adjustments (shock oil, shock pistons, ride height etc)
Must run stock motor from kit, Most likely 19/87 stock gearing
Stock Slash tires and rims only
This class is meant to be cheap, competitive and fun!
Winner of Main will be Tech'ed (Inspected) immediately upon completion of race. At last buzzer, winner will drive to Tech stand, be inspected then announced winner. In the event the winner doesn't pass inspection, 2nd place will be declared Winner. I want to make this point clear. This gives anyone running a mod'ed Slash to get back to Specs outlined in these rulles.
7.4 volts will be the only allowed battery charge.
All Slash drivers, this post is not directed at anyone specifically. I just want to make sure our raceway adheres to the Slash standards and remains fair for all involved.
Now, a small update. Track layout has been changed ( Still working it, but initial layout is completed ). When you arrive to race on sunday, be prepared for a new track.
Have a good day everyone.
6 minute qualifiers, 10 minute main. These same rules apply:
ALTOONA RACEWAY
TRAXXAS SLASH STOCK SPEC CLASS
RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
Bone stock trucks (can change out receiver to use another radio)
Only hopups are alum shock Traxxas alum shock caps #2667 from Traxxas
Stock or Proline Slash bodies only
Any 2 cell 7.4volt lipo or 6 cell NIMH pack
Can change adjustments (shock oil, shock pistons, ride height etc)
Must run stock motor from kit, Most likely 19/87 stock gearing
Stock Slash tires and rims only
This class is meant to be cheap, competitive and fun!
Winner of Main will be Tech'ed (Inspected) immediately upon completion of race. At last buzzer, winner will drive to Tech stand, be inspected then announced winner. In the event the winner doesn't pass inspection, 2nd place will be declared Winner. I want to make this point clear. This gives anyone running a mod'ed Slash to get back to Specs outlined in these rulles.
7.4 volts will be the only allowed battery charge.
All Slash drivers, this post is not directed at anyone specifically. I just want to make sure our raceway adheres to the Slash standards and remains fair for all involved.
Now, a small update. Track layout has been changed ( Still working it, but initial layout is completed ). When you arrive to race on sunday, be prepared for a new track.
Have a good day everyone.
Also im in for the meal, 50/50, and anything else to help support the track...also i want a shirt....triple fat please!!!!
07-26-2009, 04:55 PM
#5192
Rob, I agree with keeping the Slash class a 'Spec' class. Its a lot more fun and cost effective for everyone when they all race with similar motors, tires, bodies and batteries. Spec Slash reminds me of the old TT01 class we used to have indoors.
The whole idea for Spec Slash is to ensure that the cars have similar performance so that anyone has a chance to win a race without spending a lot of money.
The reality is that 6 cell nimhs perform the same if not better than most lipos. I think Matt Morris proved that last indoor season by winning the Touring Car points series with 6 cell NiMh batteries.
The only advantage to having a lipo is to save money because they last twice as long as Nimhs. There really shouldnt be much controversy since the price of Lipo batteries has really come down. They are as low as $69 at AMain:
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ry-74V-3600mAh
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...0C-74V-5000mAh
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...0C-74V-4200mAh
Once you start making exceptions to 'Spec' it becomes a slippery slope and pretty soon there'll be SC10s, 6.5 Brushless motors, and J Concepts tires, Lightweight bodies and people will wonder why we dont just race Mod Truck instead.
We all need to remember that we race to have fun.
If it was only about winning, I would have quit a long time ago because I have not won but maybe 5 races in the 75-100 mains I have entered over the last 2 years.
The whole idea for Spec Slash is to ensure that the cars have similar performance so that anyone has a chance to win a race without spending a lot of money.
The reality is that 6 cell nimhs perform the same if not better than most lipos. I think Matt Morris proved that last indoor season by winning the Touring Car points series with 6 cell NiMh batteries.
The only advantage to having a lipo is to save money because they last twice as long as Nimhs. There really shouldnt be much controversy since the price of Lipo batteries has really come down. They are as low as $69 at AMain:
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ry-74V-3600mAh
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...0C-74V-5000mAh
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...0C-74V-4200mAh
Once you start making exceptions to 'Spec' it becomes a slippery slope and pretty soon there'll be SC10s, 6.5 Brushless motors, and J Concepts tires, Lightweight bodies and people will wonder why we dont just race Mod Truck instead.
We all need to remember that we race to have fun.
If it was only about winning, I would have quit a long time ago because I have not won but maybe 5 races in the 75-100 mains I have entered over the last 2 years.
07-26-2009, 06:01 PM
#5193
Tech Rookie
Had a friend turn me on to this forum, said everyone was had a lot of knowledge on R/C's. So far so good except when it comes to batteries. There is no comparison from ni-mh to lipo. I guess the discharge rate and length of run time has nothing to do with it. Most ni-mh have a 30A to 40A discharge rate where the lipo's have a 150A to 225A and more discharge rate. Something don't seem right about that. Also to use ni-mh on an indoor flat track is not the same as running them on a dirt track where it takes more power to push the vehicle along thus cutting the run time of the battery down. Seems to me lipo's still have the advantage over the ni-mh. And a ten minute main in a slash with ni-mh, will never in my life time see that happening, still lmao about that one. Seven minutes yea, eight minutes probably, nine minutes you got to be going slow and ten will never happen. Seen to many outdoor vehicles stop before ten minutes was up, most mains are seven-eight minutes so everyone could finish. If your slash class is gonna be spec then everyone should have to run the same battery too. I think some of you who think lipo's are the same as ni-mh need to go on line and do some reading on batteries. Really think it will open your eyes a lot. Guess we forgot what racing was like before the lipo came out. Nobody remembers the 3 minute heats and the 5 minute mains, wait I dated myself, sorry.
Got to run, I'm outta here.
Got to run, I'm outta here.
07-26-2009, 06:17 PM
#5194
Sounding good Rob-bringing some excitement in!.. track change, cash race and I have never been to a race, no matter how big, where I have ever even seen a tech inspection. (strange) So that brings something to the table too.
And Brent... after driving your electric 1/8 buggy yesterday, I recommend changing its nick name
:
And Brent... after driving your electric 1/8 buggy yesterday, I recommend changing its nick name
:
07-26-2009, 06:41 PM
#5195
I-INC: Those are good points. I'm not going to argue about your numbers. The problem with discharge rates and internal resistance testing is that they dont measure who is driving the car.
I can only tell you that MY experience is that Lipos do NOT provide anyone with a performance advantage over NiMh.
I raced with NiMh for 4 years before switching to lipos. My results stayed the same. In the last three years, I have never seen anyone switch to lipos and suddenly gain a performance advantage.
This applies to on road and off road. We had a local racer place 5th in the 2009 Motorama Slash A-Main with NiMh batteries. Practically everyone else was running lipos.
Lastly about run times. When you add an extra cell to a NiMh pack, You are increasing the voltage NOT the capacity. A 7 cell 4200 8.4 NiMh pack will NOT have a longer run time than a 6 cell 4200 7.2 NiMh pack.
I am pretty sure a Spec Slash can run 10 minutes on just about any 4000+ Mah cells, but, I can talk to Rob and suggest starting with 8 minute mains and see how the batteries do.
Bottom line: The rule is the battery must be rated under 7.4. This will save the average racer money over the long run. As I stated in my previous post, Lipos are almost as inexpensive as NiMh (not to mention 7 cell NiMhs) and last twice as long so I dont know why this is in an issue.
I can only tell you that MY experience is that Lipos do NOT provide anyone with a performance advantage over NiMh.
I raced with NiMh for 4 years before switching to lipos. My results stayed the same. In the last three years, I have never seen anyone switch to lipos and suddenly gain a performance advantage.
This applies to on road and off road. We had a local racer place 5th in the 2009 Motorama Slash A-Main with NiMh batteries. Practically everyone else was running lipos.
Lastly about run times. When you add an extra cell to a NiMh pack, You are increasing the voltage NOT the capacity. A 7 cell 4200 8.4 NiMh pack will NOT have a longer run time than a 6 cell 4200 7.2 NiMh pack.
I am pretty sure a Spec Slash can run 10 minutes on just about any 4000+ Mah cells, but, I can talk to Rob and suggest starting with 8 minute mains and see how the batteries do.
Bottom line: The rule is the battery must be rated under 7.4. This will save the average racer money over the long run. As I stated in my previous post, Lipos are almost as inexpensive as NiMh (not to mention 7 cell NiMhs) and last twice as long so I dont know why this is in an issue.
Last edited by Ed237; 07-26-2009 at 07:36 PM.
07-26-2009, 06:52 PM
#5196
WINTER RC IN ALTOONA
i know it is summer but winter is not far away already does anyone know if thier is a plan for indoor racing for this winter
07-26-2009, 07:00 PM
#5197
I-INC: Those are good points. I'm not going to argue about your numbers. The problem with discharge rates and internal resistance testing is that they dont measure who is driving the car.
I can only tell you that MY experience is that Lipos do NOT provide anyone with a performance advantage over NiMh.
I raced with NiMh for 4 years before switching to lipos. My results stayed the same. In the last three years, I have never seen anyone switch to lipos and suddenly gain a performance advantage.
This applies to onroad and offraod. We had a local racer place 5th in the 2009 Motorama Slash A-Main with NiMh batteries. Practically everyone else was running lipos.
Lastly about run times. When you add an extra cell to a NiMh pack, You are increasing the voltage NOT the capacity. A 7 cell 4200 8.4 NiMh pack will NOT have a longer run time than a 6 cell 4200 7.2 NiMh pack.
The only difference I noticed is that after 6 months of racing with Lipos I saved a lot of money over what it would have cost me to run NiMhs.
But, as I stated in my previous post, Lipos are almost as inexpensive as NiMh so I dont know why this is in an issue.
I can only tell you that MY experience is that Lipos do NOT provide anyone with a performance advantage over NiMh.
I raced with NiMh for 4 years before switching to lipos. My results stayed the same. In the last three years, I have never seen anyone switch to lipos and suddenly gain a performance advantage.
This applies to onroad and offraod. We had a local racer place 5th in the 2009 Motorama Slash A-Main with NiMh batteries. Practically everyone else was running lipos.
Lastly about run times. When you add an extra cell to a NiMh pack, You are increasing the voltage NOT the capacity. A 7 cell 4200 8.4 NiMh pack will NOT have a longer run time than a 6 cell 4200 7.2 NiMh pack.
The only difference I noticed is that after 6 months of racing with Lipos I saved a lot of money over what it would have cost me to run NiMhs.
But, as I stated in my previous post, Lipos are almost as inexpensive as NiMh so I dont know why this is in an issue.
I am not going to start a war here, but I am going to say this much, The person that posted about the batts. has ONLY 1 POST on rc tech and seems to be favoring the 7 cells based on #'s not facts, ALSO Brian recieved a NASTY e-mail bashing him for things that are totally NOT TRUE and being all nasty trying to say that he is "picking on people and trying to start probelms because he dosent want to run 7 cell" THIS PERSON that e-mail him ALSO had NO POSTS and just joined today.
In my humble opinion, someone that has seen the rules does not like the fact that they have to "follow the rules" and is trying to cause problems.
It is a simple fact that 7 cells have a pretty large advantage on the track and has been proved, the #'s might reflect things differently but the proof is in the puddin!!
Lets NOT start a war here, let get this new track off to a good start and lets have GOOD FUN RACING back in Altoona....simply put, rules are rules, and if everyone follows them, then there should be no problems....as Ed stated batts. are cheap enough either go buy a lipo, or un-solder your 7th cell. Come on ppl its not rocket science here!!!!
07-26-2009, 07:03 PM
#5198
Tech Legend
iTrader: (51)
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Castle Mamba Max Pro. Feel its power!!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 21,220
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I been racing for 25 years and ran every battery from 1200 SCRS all the way to the lipos of today.
A good NIMH matched pack makes more voltage up front over a lipo pack. Where the lipo is better is toward the end of the run where the lipo voltage don't fall off as fast as a NIMH pack. Now not as huge of a difference in a Slash since the motor that comes in the kit don't draw that many amps so it won't be very hard on the batteries.
The Spec Slash class as Bumps and Jumps allows any lipo or NIMH pack. Everyone normally runs lipo because the shop sells the Yeah Racing packs starting at 57 dollars which is cheaper than a top end matched NIMH pack. Everyone has been equal whether they run a 3200 lipo or a 5000 lipo and has always been about the drivers and setup of their Slash. I seen beginners with way faster Slashes than the experianced guys but driving takes care of everything.
Just run a Spec Slash class with them stock excpe for changing the radio and alum Traxxas shock caps (the plastic ones can pop off on big jumps sometimes). We ran the class all year like this and had 30 to 40 of them weekly.
This year will run the same Spec Slash class and then a 2nd class will be more or less a open CORR truck class with Slashs, SC10s and new Losi CORR truck running in an open type class. Now guys can hopup their Slashes if they want and the guys with some of the newer CORR trucks can run as well.
Hows it going Ed? Are you guys going to run that indoor carpet track this coming winter? Would like to come up a few times is the track will be running this year.
Brian
A good NIMH matched pack makes more voltage up front over a lipo pack. Where the lipo is better is toward the end of the run where the lipo voltage don't fall off as fast as a NIMH pack. Now not as huge of a difference in a Slash since the motor that comes in the kit don't draw that many amps so it won't be very hard on the batteries.
The Spec Slash class as Bumps and Jumps allows any lipo or NIMH pack. Everyone normally runs lipo because the shop sells the Yeah Racing packs starting at 57 dollars which is cheaper than a top end matched NIMH pack. Everyone has been equal whether they run a 3200 lipo or a 5000 lipo and has always been about the drivers and setup of their Slash. I seen beginners with way faster Slashes than the experianced guys but driving takes care of everything.
Just run a Spec Slash class with them stock excpe for changing the radio and alum Traxxas shock caps (the plastic ones can pop off on big jumps sometimes). We ran the class all year like this and had 30 to 40 of them weekly.
This year will run the same Spec Slash class and then a 2nd class will be more or less a open CORR truck class with Slashs, SC10s and new Losi CORR truck running in an open type class. Now guys can hopup their Slashes if they want and the guys with some of the newer CORR trucks can run as well.
Hows it going Ed? Are you guys going to run that indoor carpet track this coming winter? Would like to come up a few times is the track will be running this year.
Brian
07-26-2009, 07:05 PM
#5199
Slash races
Correcting my post:
6 minute qualifiers and 8 minute mains. Also, I am adding this to the Slash rules.
Pinion Gear 19T, and Spur Gear 86T. Both gears are stock out of box
I am currently addressing the battery issue.
Audio, still deciding about winter racing. If we do, it will NOT be at the location used in the past. Rent is way to high and economy is way too low.
More on the battery issue shortly, bear with me as I sort the facts and input I'm receiving from everyone.
Also, I would like to thank the few members that popped in over the weekend at the track, offered help and words of encouragement.
6 minute qualifiers and 8 minute mains. Also, I am adding this to the Slash rules.
Pinion Gear 19T, and Spur Gear 86T. Both gears are stock out of box
I am currently addressing the battery issue.
Audio, still deciding about winter racing. If we do, it will NOT be at the location used in the past. Rent is way to high and economy is way too low.
More on the battery issue shortly, bear with me as I sort the facts and input I'm receiving from everyone.
Also, I would like to thank the few members that popped in over the weekend at the track, offered help and words of encouragement.
Last edited by robwike; 07-26-2009 at 07:18 PM.
07-26-2009, 07:33 PM
#5200
Rob, Good call - 8 minute mains should eliminate any concern about battery capacity.
WYD/Brian - Thanks for clarifying batteries and spec slash. I get confused on what the numbers really mean.
Rob is running the show now and doing a lot of work to get everything sorted out on the outdoor track so that everyone can get back to racing and having some fun again. And Spec Slash is going to be huge part of that.
I think Rob wants to build on what Chuck started and bring rules like what you guys run at Bumps and Jumps and keep it spec and stock and cost effective as possible. Thus the 7.4v battery rule. Its a no brainer. A 6 cell battery costs less than a 7 cell battery.
Brent - I dont want to speculate who is who!
AudioMan / Nathan: Get yourself a slash and you'll be good to go for outdoor and indoor!
WYD, Even if there is no indoor season at Altoona this winter, I'm probably see you somewhere out there at some point, I'm going to try to hit the road once a month or so to McCulloughs, Bumps & Jumps, CRCRC and Motorama.
WYD/Brian - Thanks for clarifying batteries and spec slash. I get confused on what the numbers really mean.
Rob is running the show now and doing a lot of work to get everything sorted out on the outdoor track so that everyone can get back to racing and having some fun again. And Spec Slash is going to be huge part of that.
I think Rob wants to build on what Chuck started and bring rules like what you guys run at Bumps and Jumps and keep it spec and stock and cost effective as possible. Thus the 7.4v battery rule. Its a no brainer. A 6 cell battery costs less than a 7 cell battery.
Brent - I dont want to speculate who is who!
AudioMan / Nathan: Get yourself a slash and you'll be good to go for outdoor and indoor!
WYD, Even if there is no indoor season at Altoona this winter, I'm probably see you somewhere out there at some point, I'm going to try to hit the road once a month or so to McCulloughs, Bumps & Jumps, CRCRC and Motorama.
Last edited by Ed237; 07-26-2009 at 08:20 PM.
07-26-2009, 07:34 PM
#5201
Slash racers
My first executive decision as new Track manager.
I can see this ( Battery ) turning into a huge issue. Open forum is not the place to have word battles, nor is at the track. Nasty emails and an overall bad attitude ruins this hobby for all involved. Everyone is in this to have fun. PERIOD.
So, to address the battery issue. This is my decision.
7.4 volts is it. It doesn't matter how you get to this figure, NimH or lipo.
Only the winner of the main gets tech'ed. If you don't want tech'ed, run any battery you want, just FINISH in 2nd place. Some will be happy with this, some won't. I apologize for those who will be mad or upset. But, the whole Slash class idea is, as Ed said, to give EVERYONE the chance to win a race. I can not make exceptions for one and not for others.
On a closing thought, if you respect the Altoona members, the future of the Altoona Raceway and respect this hobby, the word wars will come to a close. Especially in Open forum or email, and from 1 or 0 post members of Rctech.
Thank you for understanding. Will I lose a racer, maybe. Will I make Altoona a fair, fun filled place to race, Absolutely.
Sincerely,
Rob
I can see this ( Battery ) turning into a huge issue. Open forum is not the place to have word battles, nor is at the track. Nasty emails and an overall bad attitude ruins this hobby for all involved. Everyone is in this to have fun. PERIOD.
So, to address the battery issue. This is my decision.
7.4 volts is it. It doesn't matter how you get to this figure, NimH or lipo.
Only the winner of the main gets tech'ed. If you don't want tech'ed, run any battery you want, just FINISH in 2nd place. Some will be happy with this, some won't. I apologize for those who will be mad or upset. But, the whole Slash class idea is, as Ed said, to give EVERYONE the chance to win a race. I can not make exceptions for one and not for others.
On a closing thought, if you respect the Altoona members, the future of the Altoona Raceway and respect this hobby, the word wars will come to a close. Especially in Open forum or email, and from 1 or 0 post members of Rctech.
Thank you for understanding. Will I lose a racer, maybe. Will I make Altoona a fair, fun filled place to race, Absolutely.
Sincerely,
Rob
Last edited by robwike; 07-26-2009 at 07:50 PM.
07-26-2009, 08:28 PM
#5202
Tech Legend
iTrader: (51)
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Castle Mamba Max Pro. Feel its power!!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 21,220
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Rob, Good call - 8 minute mains should eliminate any concern about battery capacity.
WYD/Brian - Thanks for clarifying batteries and spec slash. I get confused on what the numbers really mean.
Rob is running the show now and doing a lot of work to get everything sorted out on the outdoor track so that everyone can get back to racing and having some fun again. And Spec Slash is going to be huge part of that.
I think Rob wants to build on what Chuck started and bring rules like what you guys run at Bumps and Jumps and keep it spec and stock and cost effective as possible. Thus the 7.4v battery rule. Its a no brainer. A 6 cell battery costs less than a 7 cell battery.
Brent - I dont what to speculate who is who!
AudioMan / Nathan: Get yourself a slash and you'll be good to go for outdoor and indoor!
WYD, Even if there is no indoor season at Altoona this winter, I'm probably see you somewhere out there at some point, I'm going to try to hit the road once a month or so to McCulloughs, Bumps & Jumps, CRCRC and Motorama.
WYD/Brian - Thanks for clarifying batteries and spec slash. I get confused on what the numbers really mean.
Rob is running the show now and doing a lot of work to get everything sorted out on the outdoor track so that everyone can get back to racing and having some fun again. And Spec Slash is going to be huge part of that.
I think Rob wants to build on what Chuck started and bring rules like what you guys run at Bumps and Jumps and keep it spec and stock and cost effective as possible. Thus the 7.4v battery rule. Its a no brainer. A 6 cell battery costs less than a 7 cell battery.
Brent - I dont what to speculate who is who!
AudioMan / Nathan: Get yourself a slash and you'll be good to go for outdoor and indoor!
WYD, Even if there is no indoor season at Altoona this winter, I'm probably see you somewhere out there at some point, I'm going to try to hit the road once a month or so to McCulloughs, Bumps & Jumps, CRCRC and Motorama.
Rob your rules looks fine for Slash. Bumps runs almost exactly the same thing and everyone runs lipos with no problems. You have the right idea. Only thing is we run 6 minute heats and normally 6 minute mains. Depending on turnout 3 heats and a main. Battery wise for most of the country and ROAR rules pretty much NIMH is being phased out.
At the upcoming ROAR Asphalt Nationals in Frederick, MD it will be lipo only per the ROAR rules. Its going to be the new battery for a long time to come just like Nicads and NIMH have been for the previous 24 years or so. New technology is really changing fast but the one beauty I have seen with lipo is the last for a few hundred charges if charged on a decent lipo charger and you don't let the voltage get below 6 volts. I race touring cars and use Yeah Racing 60 buck 5000 mah packs against guys running the 40C super expensive packs and I have just as much power as they do so huge dollar lipos are not needed. Just get 25C packs in 4000 or 5000 mah and your set.
Just order some Yeah racing packs to sell at your track and offer a package deal with your Slash sales and you will do just fine. Keep up the good work
Brian
07-26-2009, 09:30 PM
#5203
Wow and it seems like I walked away for 10 minutes!
Let's not ruin the opening day thunder with this in my opinion Rob is being more than fair, and has alot more to worry about right now than batteries; rules are rules, wich seem to be the norm!
BTW I-INC: after reading your post I remembered last year a very interesting race day, I debuted a brand new B-44 with a EP 4600 NiMh saddle pack. Car had a 7.5 novak geared right, ran a 8 minute main then handed the controller to Ed who ran another 3 or so minutes with it. Never died on the track. That's 11 minutes with a NiMh pack.
Let's not ruin the opening day thunder with this in my opinion Rob is being more than fair, and has alot more to worry about right now than batteries; rules are rules, wich seem to be the norm!
BTW I-INC: after reading your post I remembered last year a very interesting race day, I debuted a brand new B-44 with a EP 4600 NiMh saddle pack. Car had a 7.5 novak geared right, ran a 8 minute main then handed the controller to Ed who ran another 3 or so minutes with it. Never died on the track. That's 11 minutes with a NiMh pack.
Last edited by gixxerman; 07-27-2009 at 03:30 AM.
07-27-2009, 10:16 AM
#5204
Good choice Rob. I believe this is the best way to approach the battery issue! I did a lil bit of "research" myself and it seems that 90+% of the tracks that run the slash spec class, incorporates the same rules as you have posted and also their battery rules are the same as yours ... 7.4 no matter how you get it!
07-27-2009, 02:17 PM
#5205
After close annalization of track surface and looking at the weather forecast for predicted temps, barometric pressure and humidity....... I have already decided on a tire choice for Sundays main.
