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Old 09-27-2006, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by RC Old Man
I am not sure if you guys are understanding what I am saying.....OVER TIME bringing them down lower than .90v WILL degrade the cells. You will not see the results right away but they will eventully start dropping. The other trays out there will equalize the cells but, I would not recomend it. You may see benifits to brining the cells lower or even dead shorting them but you WILL damage the cell and over time (say 3 to 5 cycles) they will degrade.
This is why I stop using the 0-30 discharger and decided to buy the much more ctx d2. I want to take care of my cells better. My cells seemed to loose proformance to fast.
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Old 09-27-2006, 07:52 AM
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The battery doctor was nice. I felt it made the packs preform better. I just have not tried it on the 4200's. I have never used the battery doctor on my 4 cell packs. And this is all I'm running now.
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Old 09-27-2006, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SRW141
This is why I stop using the 0-30 discharger and decided to buy the much more ctx d2. I want to take care of my cells better. My cells seemed to loose proformance to fast.

Excllent choice Steve!
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Old 09-27-2006, 08:45 AM
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Now that we have that down......If you don't understand or have more questions pm me.....

Bill had asked me about the cells going bad or venting even with a brand new pack. What I and many others have found is that we are now matching at 35amps to "weed" (yes I said weed) out the bad cells faster. In doing so you put more load and more heat into the cell. This causes a bad cell to go bad faster and a good cell to also go bad faster. It is not anyones fault, be it the end user or the matcher. IB cells don't like heat. So there may be some cases where a brand new pack just assembled has a cell go bad within the first or second charge. If this happens just contact the matcher and they should replace the cell at no cost.

I personally know that all the matchers and manufactures are working to solve this problem. How? I am not sure. Possibly matching them with a pulse discharge or some kind of heat sink.

Things are changing rapidly in the RC industry right now. So whats good today may be bad tomorrow. Just stick with what works and dont try the new "trick of the week" right away.
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:08 AM
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I know I may not be the most popular person here but I wanted to add my input since I personally have known many of you way before full throttle. This is all great info. Fred and Mike have both done their homework very well. Cells today are so sensitive to changes that you might not get consistant results. (IE summertime cells peak out lower voltage vs Winter cells peak out higher voltage). Guidlines for IB3800's were .7 cut off for equalizing. .9 for pulsing. I think that you will find with time that .9 for equalizing will work just as well.

The real battle we all have to fight is motors. How to keep them from overheating. I know Mike ran into this problem and he was not the only one. I heard that it was pretty common. I can suggest put at least 2 fans on your car. Team Tamale makes a trick fan mount that allows up to three fans and its about 15 bucks. The other thing is on those hot days (IE MD Charity race this past July) you sacrifice a little over all power for consistant 5 minute run. I recently read a post by Eddie0...someone asked him how do you know if your motor is too hot. He said as long as your lap times don't drop more than 3 tenths per lap your fine. I have personally had motors come off over 200 degrees and they showed no fade. Every motor is different. This is the battle that guys like Bill and Eddie and EA all have to go through. Bill's doing a great job. I'm sure he will continue to push the envelope with new ideas....it's up to you guys as team drivers to really test it and give him the feedback to know whats working.

With that being said, you guys all know me. if you have questions and no ones getting back to you (yes they do get busy sometimes) shoot me a PM.

Bill, I hope to see you this winter at the ORL races. And yes, you are still welcome anytime you need a place to crash for the races....LOL
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by RC Old Man
Now that we have that down......If you don't understand or have more questions pm me.....

Bill had asked me about the cells going bad or venting even with a brand new pack. What I and many others have found is that we are now matching at 35amps to "weed" (yes I said weed) out the bad cells faster. In doing so you put more load and more heat into the cell. This causes a bad cell to go bad faster and a good cell to also go bad faster. It is not anyones fault, be it the end user or the matcher. IB cells don't like heat. So there may be some cases where a brand new pack just assembled has a cell go bad within the first or second charge. If this happens just contact the matcher and they should replace the cell at no cost.

I personally know that all the matchers and manufactures are working to solve this problem. How? I am not sure. Possibly matching them with a pulse discharge or some kind of heat sink.

Things are changing rapidly in the RC industry right now. So whats good today may be bad tomorrow. Just stick with what works and dont try the new "trick of the week" right away.
ON that note i am testing new things with the motor , diff things to the brushes to help the motor run cooler , becuse of these new high volt cells
are making motors run hotter, but cuting the brushes and drilling hole dose
helps but not all the time , if you can put a fan on the motor DO IT . there are
some realy cool fan set ups out there. but you can contact JOHN CECI
OR E-MAIL screen name tigeryan he came up with so realy cool fans
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:30 AM
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Unfortunately, us off-roaders can't put fans on the motors because the tranny and bumper are in the way... I'm gonna try a vertical slot this week to see what difference it makes. If that doesn't work, then I'm gonna try charging at 4-5 amps to reduce voltage and thus reduce fade at the end of the race. Hopefully that tactic will net higher speeds at the end and a stronger finish.
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:44 AM
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John you offroaders shouldnt be pulling anwhere near the ampdraw a touring car is, sorry should have specified that. Slotting brushes does help but remember, the more face you take away, the more overall power. I personally like cavity brushes.
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Barry
John you offroaders shouldnt be pulling anwhere near the ampdraw a touring car is, sorry should have specified that. Slotting brushes does help but remember, the more face you take away, the more overall power. I personally like cavity brushes.
I've been using cavity 767 brushes all summer.
At our track, the clay has the best traction I've ever seen. It's like running on carpet much of the time! My rear tires last 2 to 3 races and fronts are good for 6 to 8 races.

Where the heat issue comes in is that half the time we are runing 8 minute mains. The other half is triple A-Mains. That's hard on any motor when you have the current crop of batteries... So I'm experementing.
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:53 AM
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Hi Bill, not sure where we left off, but thought I would check in.

I have been super busy racing the 1:1 car, but with the season winding to a close, I will have a lot more time for RC. I plan to get back into off road this winter.

What's the hot setup for stock 2wd? Thanks!

Dan
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:56 AM
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Offroad really shouldn't be a heat problem, just gear accoringly. Touring cars and even 12th's now seem to draw a ton more since they have soo much traction, and so much more power going to the ground. Offroad has more slip to ease the presure / stress on the power sytem.

Normally i narrow the brush if anything to prevent overheating, but that normally is saved for when the comm is getting smaller.

My perfered method is to make the chasis carry enough cornerspeed that it dosn't bog the motor down. This past weekend i was at a race that had a much different traction level then i was used to, and my car wasn't as effcient as would have been nice until the end of the event when i found a setup i liked.....Result=i roasted a bunch of motors, even with proper rollout and a few fans.

EDIT

John, you have a point with the high bite clay, forget what i just wrote as i was thinking about typical loom tracks.
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Old 09-27-2006, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by rcracingkid
Normally i narrow the brush if anything to prevent overheating, but that normally is saved for when the comm is getting smaller.
I ran narrowed brushes in my Hellfires and MVP's. Even tried it in my P2K and C2 for practice.
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Old 09-27-2006, 10:03 AM
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John,

Trinity and muchmore both offer standoffs mounting kits to put a fan out over the endbell, you may wish to try that. It will pass more air over the brushes and help keep things cool. The downside is more junk getting loaded ontop of the motor.
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Old 09-27-2006, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by rcracingkid
John,

Trinity and muchmore both offer standoffs mounting kits to put a fan out over the endbell, you may wish to try that. It will pass more air over the brushes and help keep things cool. The downside is more junk getting loaded ontop of the motor.
I thought about that, but I'm not sure how long it would last... One rearender or cartwheel off a double and it'll be toast. I'v had magnets knocked loose on my motors and tabs broken off the endbell from getting plowed so hard.
But thanks for thinking of me!
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Old 09-27-2006, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by RC_Dan
Hi Bill, not sure where we left off, but thought I would check in.

I have been super busy racing the 1:1 car, but with the season winding to a close, I will have a lot more time for RC. I plan to get back into off road this winter.

What's the hot setup for stock 2wd? Thanks!

Dan
give me a call i will get you up to date
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