302LikesR1 Wurks brushless motors
08-16-2017, 08:29 PM
#408
R1 V16 17.5 with standard rotor. Also have ran 1700+ rotor lately, felt best with same gearing and timing below. Note: This is with the one motor i'm using. Others could be slightly different. But in general these settings should work for most.
I've tried 3.8 to 4.6 fdr's in .2 increments from 30 to 55 timing. Lot's of track time. These all seem to be good
3.8fdr - 45 tmng
4.0fdr - 47 tmng
4.2fdr - 50 tmng
4.3fdr - 52 tmng
Motor may run a little hot, but with all my testing when the motor ran about 165-170 is when I hit hot laps and best avgs. I measure temp from the top of the motor about 30 sec after being on the track for 320-340 sec. Track size is 96x42 feet CRC Black carpet. Using a R1 fan mount with WTF fan connected to receiver and ORCA VX3 ESC.
If you run on a smaller or larger track you can adjust FDR and timing. I also raced at a small track (60x40) in Fort Collins Wed night. My best laps times where with a 4.6 fdr and 47 timing. Longest straight section was about 45ft. I did this to get up to speed as fast as possible. Cut several tenths off my avg from running gearing for a larger track.
I've really tried to make the Dyno results posted by Jorge work but the car never felt fast on the track when in the 25 to 35 timing range regardless of gearing. The main reasons i think is because of the torque loss due to the large FDR.
I've tried 3.8 to 4.6 fdr's in .2 increments from 30 to 55 timing. Lot's of track time. These all seem to be good
3.8fdr - 45 tmng
4.0fdr - 47 tmng
4.2fdr - 50 tmng
4.3fdr - 52 tmng
Motor may run a little hot, but with all my testing when the motor ran about 165-170 is when I hit hot laps and best avgs. I measure temp from the top of the motor about 30 sec after being on the track for 320-340 sec. Track size is 96x42 feet CRC Black carpet. Using a R1 fan mount with WTF fan connected to receiver and ORCA VX3 ESC.
If you run on a smaller or larger track you can adjust FDR and timing. I also raced at a small track (60x40) in Fort Collins Wed night. My best laps times where with a 4.6 fdr and 47 timing. Longest straight section was about 45ft. I did this to get up to speed as fast as possible. Cut several tenths off my avg from running gearing for a larger track.
I've really tried to make the Dyno results posted by Jorge work but the car never felt fast on the track when in the 25 to 35 timing range regardless of gearing. The main reasons i think is because of the torque loss due to the large FDR.
08-16-2017, 08:35 PM
#409
If your not sure what torque loss or gain with gearing is here's some info.
Torque is a twisting force- (it doesn't do any 'work' itself- it is simple an application of energy).
Work (or 'stuff') happens, when torque is applied and movement occurs.
"Torque is a force that tends to rotate or turn things. You generate a torque any time you apply a force using a wrench. Tightening the lug nuts on your wheels is a good example. When you use a wrench, you apply a force to the handle. This force creates a torque on the lug nut, which tends to turn the lug nut. English units of torque are pound-inches or pound-feet; the SI unit is the Newton-meter. Notice that the torque units contain a distance and a force. To calculate the torque, you just multiply the force by the distance from the center. In the case of lug nuts, if the wrench is a foot long, and you put 200 pounds of force on it, you are generating 200 pound-feet of torque. If you use a two-foot wrench, you only need to put 100 pounds of force on it to generate the same torque."
In summary:
Torque equals Force multiplied by Distance
How does gear ratio affect Torque?
Simply put, torque at work (such as at a wheel) is your motor's torque times your gear ratio.
Motor Torque x gear ratio = torque at the wheel
Lets say we have a 10 rmps motor that is capable of 5 oz Torque (we know this from our motor spec.) Lets say we have 2 gears. Our input gear (attached to our motor) has 10 teeth our output gear has 50 teeth . Our Gear ratio is 5:1 . Motor Torque x gear ratio = torque at the wheel . 5oz x 5:1 = 25 oz . What if our gear ratio were 1:3? 5oz x 1:3 = 1.6oz
Torque is a twisting force- (it doesn't do any 'work' itself- it is simple an application of energy).
Work (or 'stuff') happens, when torque is applied and movement occurs.
"Torque is a force that tends to rotate or turn things. You generate a torque any time you apply a force using a wrench. Tightening the lug nuts on your wheels is a good example. When you use a wrench, you apply a force to the handle. This force creates a torque on the lug nut, which tends to turn the lug nut. English units of torque are pound-inches or pound-feet; the SI unit is the Newton-meter. Notice that the torque units contain a distance and a force. To calculate the torque, you just multiply the force by the distance from the center. In the case of lug nuts, if the wrench is a foot long, and you put 200 pounds of force on it, you are generating 200 pound-feet of torque. If you use a two-foot wrench, you only need to put 100 pounds of force on it to generate the same torque."
In summary:
Torque equals Force multiplied by Distance
How does gear ratio affect Torque?
Simply put, torque at work (such as at a wheel) is your motor's torque times your gear ratio.
Motor Torque x gear ratio = torque at the wheel
Lets say we have a 10 rmps motor that is capable of 5 oz Torque (we know this from our motor spec.) Lets say we have 2 gears. Our input gear (attached to our motor) has 10 teeth our output gear has 50 teeth . Our Gear ratio is 5:1 . Motor Torque x gear ratio = torque at the wheel . 5oz x 5:1 = 25 oz . What if our gear ratio were 1:3? 5oz x 1:3 = 1.6oz
08-16-2017, 09:17 PM
#411
The problem with gauss meters is the reading is 100% dependent on how close the magnet is to the sensor. Which makes it difficult to compare between everyone's testers. The Fantom meter i have is around 50 to 75 points lower than most the newer meter's being used today.
08-17-2017, 01:35 AM
#412
Yeah I know what the meters are just wondering what one they use, as I have a Trinity Igauss which measures a lot lower than a Fantom Facts Machine 3 I just got, and seen some using the Facts Machine 2 and the Racing Measurement Systems unit, so would be good to know what they are using so we can compare apples with apples.
08-17-2017, 04:50 AM
#414
Brent the low timing really only works on the 25.5, or a lower wind SS spec motor with a 12.3mm or weak 12.5mm rotor.
FWIW the Timezone USGT winner I set his motor at 40-41*. Same for his motor that placed 6th in the 17.5 A main. Both were V16s.
One thing I have noticed is the sensor boards are close in phase but can be off up to 6 degrees on the can. Some are dead on.
BTW I have 2 motors left PM if you want.
The 17.5 has the lowest resistance 17.5 I have come accross. 35.9-36.0 mohm @ 77F. and puts out 10% more power.
The other is a 25.5 that reads 101mohm @77*F.
FWIW the Timezone USGT winner I set his motor at 40-41*. Same for his motor that placed 6th in the 17.5 A main. Both were V16s.
One thing I have noticed is the sensor boards are close in phase but can be off up to 6 degrees on the can. Some are dead on.
BTW I have 2 motors left PM if you want.
The 17.5 has the lowest resistance 17.5 I have come accross. 35.9-36.0 mohm @ 77F. and puts out 10% more power.
The other is a 25.5 that reads 101mohm @77*F.
08-17-2017, 05:33 AM
#415
Yeah I know what the meters are just wondering what one they use, as I have a Trinity Igauss which measures a lot lower than a Fantom Facts Machine 3 I just got, and seen some using the Facts Machine 2 and the Racing Measurement Systems unit, so would be good to know what they are using so we can compare apples with apples.
I have a Facts Machine 2
R1
12.3mm read 1435-1455
12.5mm read 1515-1525
Motiv
12.3mm (25.5) 1480-1490 rated at 1607 avg(inc sheet)
12.5mm S high 1580-1590 rated at 1698 avg(inc sheet.)
After several runs, rotor has barely lost 5-8 gauss. I run 1/12 with a 25mm fan. Motor has never reached over 140*F.
TSR
12.5 4 line ,1525-1535 rated 1640 gauss on sheet
It looks like the FM2 that I have reads 120-122 gauss lower than the rated Motiv or TSR rotors.
We also have a R1 motor that no mater what timing it overheats. The motor got extremely hot once, over 225*F and the rotor practicaly died.
It measured 844 gauss afterwards.
The stator had no signs of damage it still reads 36.7-36.8mohm like it read new. Its still runs hot with a new rotor.
08-17-2017, 08:45 AM
#416
I have a Facts Machine 2
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We also have a R1 motor that no mater what timing it overheats. The motor got extremely hot once, over 225*F and the rotor practicaly died.
It measured 844 gauss afterwards.
The stator had no signs of damage it still reads 36.7-36.8mohm like it read new. Its still runs hot with a new rotor.
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We also have a R1 motor that no mater what timing it overheats. The motor got extremely hot once, over 225*F and the rotor practicaly died.
It measured 844 gauss afterwards.
The stator had no signs of damage it still reads 36.7-36.8mohm like it read new. Its still runs hot with a new rotor.
The same is happening with my motor. It ran over 200 F in every race this weekend running outside on asphalt. Outside temp was about 85. I was a little shocked at hot it was getting. I need to pull the rotor out to see if it lost any gauss. It feels weaker. I'll see how it does on carpet tonight.
Nexxus, sorry about that, I interrupted your questions as asking about how a magnet is measured. I have the same tester as Jorge and get roughly the same numbers he posted for all those motors.
08-17-2017, 09:09 AM
#417
Yeah I know what the meters are just wondering what one they use, as I have a Trinity Igauss which measures a lot lower than a Fantom Facts Machine 3 I just got, and seen some using the Facts Machine 2 and the Racing Measurement Systems unit, so would be good to know what they are using so we can compare apples with apples.
08-17-2017, 05:44 PM
#418
I find the facts machine 3 is more accurate than the igauss but it's really hard to judge, some readers seem to be higher (ie facts machine 2 and rms) as the rotor sits inside the unit not on a cradle with sensors, so you can get a 1700 + rating on one reading, market the c.. out of it but on another reader it's barely 1500-1600
Which is why I am curious what machine R1 is using to conclude these are 1700 rotors.
Which is why I am curious what machine R1 is using to conclude these are 1700 rotors.
08-17-2017, 09:17 PM
#420
Jorge,
The same is happening with my motor. It ran over 200 F in every race this weekend running outside on asphalt. Outside temp was about 85. I was a little shocked at hot it was getting. I need to pull the rotor out to see if it lost any gauss. It feels weaker. I'll see how it does on carpet tonight.
Nexxus, sorry about that, I interrupted your questions as asking about how a magnet is measured. I have the same tester as Jorge and get roughly the same numbers he posted for all those motors.
The same is happening with my motor. It ran over 200 F in every race this weekend running outside on asphalt. Outside temp was about 85. I was a little shocked at hot it was getting. I need to pull the rotor out to see if it lost any gauss. It feels weaker. I'll see how it does on carpet tonight.
Nexxus, sorry about that, I interrupted your questions as asking about how a magnet is measured. I have the same tester as Jorge and get roughly the same numbers he posted for all those motors.
By contrast, Toastie and Kemper were close to 50* on timing and about 4.0 on gearing and were at about the same temp. Once you do start pushing it a bit, the temps do seem to climb and the motor fades a bit.