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-   -   Power Push Batteries (https://www.rctech.net/forum/team-company-discussions/58827-power-push-batteries.html)

ground-round 12-31-2004 06:21 PM

Power Push Batteries
 
Anyone out there using Power Push batteries? I'm really liking them. The numbers on the sticker are accurate, too. You can get 1.18s WAY cheaper through them than other matchers. www.teampowerpush.com

protc3 12-31-2004 06:28 PM

yeah,tony has some real good packs.
i find that they have excelent punch at the begining of the race all the way to the end.two thumbs up to you tony:nod:

C Branch 12-31-2004 06:51 PM

I got to try a couple of Power Push packs and WOW!!! These things were awesome!!! Never has my car had so much power and speed down the straight!!! Tony has been doing this a lot longer than most of the matchers that seem to pop up everyday.

Colin

ground-round 12-31-2004 07:39 PM

You know, its funny...everyone I've talked that has tried the packs loves them, they won the Indoor Champs in 2003 and the ROAR Carpet Nats in 2004 and yet not a lot of people are using them. Why is that?

C Branch 12-31-2004 07:48 PM

I think it is because of the advertising. Everyone seems to lwant the latest with the flashiest ads. Team Power Push has only just recently started to put ads on websites and stuff. Their products are top notch!!!


Colin

koabich 12-31-2004 08:45 PM

I have purchased alot of their packs. They are very popular at my local track. They are very good packs. The one thing I have noticed with their packs however is that they tend to die and loose their punch faster than other cells I have used. In other words, you cannot cycle them as many times as some other matchers packs...their life cycle is rather short from my experience!

KE4PJO 12-31-2004 09:37 PM

I've been using Power Push packs since the early day's. I've never been disapointed with them, ever.

TC3er 01-01-2005 08:41 AM

Yes, Power Push packs are awsome, I buy mine used and they still have tons of punch and power.

seaball 01-01-2005 10:20 AM

the numbers may be accurate, but the entire matching process is unique to power push. the wesite details the custom matching sofware. it was way ahead of it's time, but there are no turbo matchers used anywhere in the process. therefore you can't compare those numbers to any other matchers.

the packs run very well, but certainly not as well as the labels indicate they should. i have seen recent #'s as high as 1.21 ave voltage on team packs. to my knowledge, those #'s cannot be accurately duplicated on a turbo matcher. furthermore, smaller battery matchers don't go through the amount of cells that these larger companies do, so the probability of getting enough freak cells to make these packs is a bit lower. from having seen the voltage range on his packs (at our track, local hobby shops, and the team drivers') i would say the same packs would register an average voltage of 15-20 mV or more less, if matched using the industry standard equipment and methods. infact, alot of local racers used to use them, and have cycled them on their turbo 30/35's, and i believe the offset that they have seen has been in that same range.

again, there is nothing wrong with the power push cells, but the comparison for pricing should include a scale factor. 1.18 power push cells are not team cells....try looking for 1.20+ and comparing your price on those to 1.18+ from the major players. that would be a more similar comparison. :tire:

rogtsaamokin 01-01-2005 02:10 PM

I have been running Power Push for a couple years now and the cells just keep getting better and better, Now with his new Solder and also having them hand built by the Man himself it takes any hassel out of you screwing anything up or over heating the cells. I know his process is totally different from the Turbos, but hes trying to get the battery to perform on the Track not on the Bench, also he constantly is striving to stay ahead of the industry on matching techniques, wait till the next process if he gets it down it will be Awesome!!! One last thing is the customer service you ask Tony something he tells you straight up if he has it or not He trys to give you the best He has no matter Whos you are!! ;)
rogtsaamokin:D

ground-round 01-01-2005 02:55 PM

I'm going to agree with the last post. The matching process may be totally unique and therefore not produce the same types of numbers as the TurboMatched cells, but I've never had a pack perform better in my car. Rog - what new process are you talking about?

Tony Carrubba 01-02-2005 11:37 AM

Power Push
 
koabich - that doesn't sound right. Tell me a little more about how you are
charging your packs and how often you use them

Tony Carrubba 01-02-2005 11:44 AM

Power Push
 
Hey guys, thanks for all the positive comments! C Branch - you hit the nail
on the head. I always thought that if we put out a superior product at a
good price we wouldn't need advertising...I was wrong! We're really going
to push hard in 2005 to get our name out more. I have a lot of plans in the
works. www.teampowerpush.com
:tire: Tony :tire:

Secret_weapon 01-02-2005 11:55 AM

What do u think about the Epic zebra batteries. I bought them 2 days ago 7 cell 8.4v but i had a problem, when i plug them to the charger the charger detects no voltage so it wont charge.

Anybody have a solution??

Tony Carrubba 01-02-2005 12:01 PM

Is there a volt reading on every cell?
Did you dead short the pack?
Did you try another charger ?
Tony

Secret_weapon 01-02-2005 12:08 PM

No there was no reading for the voltage.

And yes i did try it on the PITBULL charger and the LRP Quadra and it didnt work, and i even tried slow chargers that takes 14 hours to charge but it was still the same.:cry:

Tony Carrubba 01-02-2005 12:31 PM

DEAD PACK
 
Dubai
You can't get any volt's on any cell with the volt meter set at 2 v ?
wow!!!

I would contact the matcher and ask them to look at the pack , see about getting another pack exchange .

Dubai somthing just don't sound right , I never seen all cells in a pack no volt at all.
Tony

vi3tishduy 01-02-2005 12:59 PM

How much for a 1.18 pack 6 cell? 400+

koabich 01-02-2005 04:08 PM

Re: Power Push
 

Originally posted by Tony Carrubba
koabich - that doesn't sound right. Tell me a little more about how you are
charging your packs and how often you use them

I use a GFX charger. Charge at 6 amps with the peak detect set at 0.05. Before each cycle, I place the cells on an Integy 20 amp tray for about 10 minutes, let the cell rest for 5-10 minutes then charge. After each run or cycle I place the packs on an Equalizing tray and store them that way. I never cycle the same pack more than once a week.

I have never had any problems with any of my other packs using this method (Fuku, SMC and Orion). In fact, my Fuku and SMC packs seem to get stronger with every run.

The Power Push cells used to be popular at my local track. I had heard good things and bought 4 packs about 1.5 years ago. They all started out amazing but quickly started loosing power with each cycle after about the 5th-10th cycle. After that that they were garbage. From what I hear, many at my local track started experiencing the same thing and stopped buying them. Used to be everyone at my track had at least one Power Push pack in their arsenal. Currently, however, I haven't seen a Power Push pack at the track in a little over a year.

Tony Carrubba 01-02-2005 04:14 PM

vi3tishduy $$$$
 
V13tishbuy
Please visit MY web sight
http://teampowerpush.com/catalog.html

Kropy 01-02-2005 04:17 PM

Tony, That link does not work...But this does www.teampowerpush.com

ground-round 01-02-2005 05:04 PM

Secret-Weapon - I bet you have a bad solder joint. If one joint is bad, the pack is useless. Take your soldering iron and re-melt all the solder on each battery bar. That should do the trick.

sg1 01-02-2005 05:27 PM

Hey Tony...
Nice to see you're up and running!!! I'd just like to say I've been running Power Push Batteries since Tony first start matching batteries.... I've tried others, but I've always gone back!! Togather Tony has helped me win numerous races... I think our biggest feats have been the regionals in Chicago for 1/12 mod., Canadian Indoor Champs for 1/12 mod. and our last one, the 2004 1/12 ROAR stock nats!!!! Keep up the good work with the batteries and look for other trick items from Power Push!!!
Wayne

Tony Carrubba 01-02-2005 05:55 PM

koabich


I use a GFX charger. Charge at 6 amps with the peak detect set at 0.05. Before each cycle, I place the cells on an Integy 20 amp tray for about 10 minutes, let the cell rest for 5-10 minutes then charge. After each run or cycle I place the packs on an Equalizing tray and store them that way. I never cycle the same pack more than once a week.

.05 peak detect is over 150 deg . I can tell you that it to high of a role over for the Gp 3300 on our GFX we use .01 and at the most .02, now with a .01 I set the lockout to on.

OVER 125 deg kills GP:flaming: :flaming: :flaming:

sg1 01-02-2005 06:54 PM

I can second that.... Once the batteries get that hot during a charge cycle, there life span and match will be cut drastically!! Typically... 120 deg. far. is where it should peak at.

ctmazzo 01-02-2005 07:14 PM

I must say before I started running for Team Associated/Reedy I ran Power Push batteries. The batteries were GREAT!!. Tony does a great job with the cells and I wish him the best of luck. Keep up the good work Tony.



Chris Mazzola

wait a minute 01-02-2005 07:28 PM

Hi Tony

On behalf of a member that uses Team Powerpush cells these cells are incredible. Ive used Tony's packs for over 3 years now and i am never without power. i use these on the dirt most of the time and they work great(sometimes even to good depending on track conditions :D). Whatever your doin Tony..Keep up the good work!!! :nod:

Mike Woods

wait a minute 01-02-2005 08:07 PM

TTT

rogtsaamokin 01-02-2005 08:29 PM

Koabich, Man stop cycling, your just wasting those Batterys!! Guys have to stop Bench Racing thats all I ever hear .... Well they dont cycle out on my Turbo???? WHOOPY:lol: Man lets see how they work on the Track, put them in and RUN!!!!:nod:
I run about every other week sometimes maybe 2 to 3 weeks apart, I never cycle my Power Push Cells, I leave them at the Voltage Tony told me too and pack them away till the next race, And they run just as hard as they did the first day!!!
Keep up the GOOD WORK Tony!!!

Roger T:: rogtsaamokin

ground-round 01-03-2005 05:46 AM

Wayne -
You coming down here for the Snowbirds or what?

Jeff

sg1 01-03-2005 06:20 AM

Jeff...
Check your e-mail!!!! Just sent it!!!!
Wayne

KE4PJO 01-03-2005 06:44 AM

"Man lets see how they work on the Track, put them in and RUN!!!!"

Finally, someone that makes sense.:nod:

koabich 01-03-2005 06:55 AM


Originally posted by Tony Carrubba
koabich
.05 peak detect is over 150 deg . I can tell you that it to high of a role over for the Gp 3300 on our GFX we use .01 and at the most .02, now with a .01 I set the lockout to on.

OVER 125 deg kills GP:flaming: :flaming: :flaming:

It's funny that you mention that is too high. As other matchers recommend a peak detect set at 0.05 (SMC, Fuku). Their packs seem to get stronger with every cycle. Hmmm, I wonder what that could mean?

sg1 01-03-2005 07:07 AM

Checking batteries and cycling them on different systems then what the matcher used will only hurt the cell and the match... If the matcher trained the cells at a .05 peak detection, then stick with it...
Battery numbers are like dyno numbers... put it on the track and run it, even though it may not be what you're looking for it may work...lol... How many times do you go to the track with your motors you benched raced all week and end up slow... then dyno the motor of the guy who's been whoopin' on you and his motor shows crap!!!

Wayne

CypressMidWest 01-03-2005 07:43 AM

Well, I've been around the sport a little while, and I've tried packs from EVERYONE. Occasionally, at a club race, I'll try a pack of someone else's stuff just to compare. When all is said and done, Tony's stuff is KING. I race 12th scale and TC, not Turbomatchers, and on the track Power Push cells flat out deliver. I guess a TM4 would be a helpful tool for me if I had a car that drew a constant 35 amps for the entirety of it's run.

Charge one of Tony's packs on a Futaba CDR charger and you'll have no doubt as to what it is that makes them superior.

koa: I've got 4-cell packs that are 2 years old with 30+ cycles that put out as much as most other matchers "customer" packs with similar numbers. If Tony says you're getting his cells too hot I'm inclined to believe him.

John Malin 01-03-2005 10:21 AM

Happy holidays to the Blackstock's and Carubba's form the people at fusion.




John Malin

Mr.Horsepower 01-03-2005 12:19 PM

I'm new to this forum, but I want to throw my two (maybe 3 or 4) cents in. (Maybe 3 or 4 after proof-reading this!) I'm a longtime R/C racer who was out of the sport for almost 10 years, and recently jumped back in. I used to run PowerPush batteries in the late 80's and early 90's, and Tony put out some awesome product. Powerpush batteries helped me win a Norrca Short Track Oval Title in 1991, and a Roar Oval Stock title in 1995. I know they perform in Oval, which is one of the most demanding tests of a battery.

I've found that because his matching process is unique (custom developed equipment), the numbers on his cells are not directly comparable to Turbo Matcher or the old Turbo 30 numbers. However, due to manufacturing variations between units, I've found that I also cannot compare numbers from my two different Turbo 35's. My two units are about 4% different runtime on the same packs. Hooking them up to a scope with a current probe reveals the culprit. With both units set to discharge at 30 Amps, the scope shows one discharging at 30.2 Amps with a +/- 0.1 Amp variation over time, and the other discharging at 29. 2 Amps with a +/- 0.2 Amp variation over time. That isn't too bad, when you think about it. One unit is within about 1%, The other is off by about 3% low, but it's at least consistently low. But . . .

Stop and think about it. (With apologies to Arsenio) Hmmmmm. We are all running around looking for 10 more seconds of run time, or anothe 0.05 V average discharge, yet the equipment we are using isn't that accurate, based on my 2 units. I don't have a TurboMatcher, so I cannot comment on how accurate they are. I'm now smart enough to use the Turbo 35 as a great charger, and for discharging my packs after a run, and it gives me a good understanding of how much energy was left in the pack, but it's just not accurate enough to be looking for minor differences between packs. The numbers are only as good as the measuring system that generated them.

Cycle numbers be damned, however. What really matters is how they perform on the track! The Powerpush packs definitely perform better on the track than most other packs that I have tried. When I decided to jump back in to RC, I purchased some big number Orion cells at my local hobby shop, to use for practice and re-learning how to drive.

Of course, when it came time to buy some good race cells, I called Tony at Powerpush. He fixed me up with some great cells for stock and 19 turn racing. I had my touring car setup for SoCal raceway, with the Orion batteries. When I switched to the Powerpush packs, I had to change the chassis setup to counteract the push off the corners from the extra voltage. Tony's cell still rock!

I'm not knocking Orion's batteries. They are, I'm sure, indicative of what you get when you buy their product in a hobby shop. However, they just don't perform on the track the same for me, and they cost about the same money. To me, that matters far more than whatever numbers are printed on the labels.

Here's some more techno babble (if you haven't nodded off already!) The NiMH batteries are new to me. When I got out of RC, the Sanyo 1700SCRC's were king. In order to catch up, I've been doing a lot of testing. (I'm a EE, that's what we do. Testing, testing, and more testing.) I've found that the NiMH's (GP3300's and Sanyo 3600's) will not tolerate any charge abuse at all, unlike the old NiCd's. If the NiMH get too hot, over about 115-120 degrees F, they really suffer for both punch and runtime. I started checking my batteries with a handheld pyrometer to make sure they don't overcook, and to come up with a proper cycle for my Turbo 35's. I've adjusted my Turbo 35's to a 0.03V peak for 6 cells, 0.02V peak for 4 cell, to make sure they don't overcook, and I charge at no more then 4.0 Amps. Those are my findings. As always, YMMV.

I have some new 4 cell packs from PowerPush that I will be running in my oval cars, and my intial tests looked great over the holidays. However, I have also found that the NiMH cells pickup after a couple of cycles, and I'm looking forward to really feeling "The Push!", once these killer packs settle in.

Thanks for the great batteries, Tony. Please keep up the good work. Man, I didn't realize how much I missed RC racing until I squeezed the trigger on some of your batteries! Woo Hoo!

-Tony Staples

ground-round 01-03-2005 12:40 PM

Wow, now that's a post! So basically what you're saying is that a 1.18 volt cell on my Turbo35 might end up being a 1.17 on someone elses machine simply because the tolerances of the two different machines are off?

Think about that. What if someone went into business matching batteries and by luck-of-the draw, purchased a matcher that said it discharged at 30 amps, but actually dischared at 28 amps. Those cells would show lots more run time and higher voltage because they were discharged slower. You'd buy what you thought were the hottest packs in the country, but in reality, you would have paid big $$$ for 1.16s:lol:

Mr. Horsepower's post just confirms what some other people have said...its about how the pack performs in the car, not on the bench.

crimson eagle 01-03-2005 12:45 PM

Hi all,

I just want to echo what some people have said here and maybe add another point of view.

In my extended family there is a recently retired GM Engineer. He spent a lot of time working on the design for the GM electric car. The power for the car was as you have no doubt guessed provided by NiMh cells. They did a lot of testing at GM to find out how to get the best performance out of these cells. This obviously depends on your definition of performance. GM of course wanted to have the best lifecycle out of thier cells. To get this they air conditioned the cell bay, keeping them as cool as possible made for the best lifecycle of the cell. However, for best voltage, lowest IR etc the best thing for the cells is to be very warm/hot. This allowed the chemical reactions to happen faster but broke down more of the checmicals in the process.

In Northern California where I am, it can get to 110 ambient temp in the summer, the cells don't appreciate this. My method for using cells will be to buy at the start of the winter/Indoor season. And use temp charging to 115 or 120. In the summer I'll peak charge probably with a low delta, knowing my cells will be trashed by the time the winter season starts, then buy more.

I keep restating what a surge guy said on another thread. These are all the same cells. Find a matcher you like and develop a good relationship with them.

Chris.

Mr.Horsepower 01-03-2005 12:47 PM

That's pretty much my conclusion, too. I figure I better leave the battery matching to those that know what the heck they are doing, and have the right kind of equipment.

Besides, I figure I'll be that much faster if I spend the limited time I have available actually practicing, instead of twiddling with my battery packs.

-Tony Staples


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