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Old 08-15-2016, 02:55 PM
  #751  
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Originally Posted by toddmanley View Post
Hoping to get some insights from the TSR experts - currently running a 17.5 "The 1" motor in a TLR 22 3.0 laydown transmission buggy. My home track is Norcal Hobbies and I'm trying to determine how to balance the right mix of motor timing and gearing. Currently running 64 pitch gearing - 42/96 right now.

After taking a 3-month break I got back on the track and it took forever for me to get around to tweaking the timing and gearing to get more punch out of the corners. Initially timing was turned all the way up to the 45* mark - I backed that down to around 32* and found more low-end torque.

So here's my question - with my current gearing and timing, in addition to a fan which keeps my motor temps right around 95-100*, where should I focus my attention? Not sure if playing around with timing is where I should focus...or should I pay more attention to pinion gearing? My goal is to get more bottom-end rip out of the corners with top speed being secondary.
Your name sounds familiar. Sorry but I can't help you in the buggy department. I'm sure you will get an answer soon.
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Old 08-15-2016, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by sg1 View Post
On smaller high bite tracks guys are up to 45* on the endbell.
With low traction I think you should be able to get away with that high of timing. Maybe drop 2 pinions when you do and make sure you have a fan on the motor If temps come off 110 to 120*F add another pinion.
Was planning to run a 72 spur in the YZ2 DT with 33/32 pinion..so still put timing at 45?
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Old 08-15-2016, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by lungsui23 View Post
Was planning to run a 72 spur in the YZ2 DT with 33/32 pinion..so still put timing at 45?
Yes, go 45*, if you snug the timing screws down and it looks like 44*, go with it, close enough

With that much timing you'll see 2 things, you can be over and under geared and not have bottom end.

Start with a smaller than what you think pinion and work your way up to find the sweet spot. Motor temps with a fan may be 120 to 130*F depending on ambient temps.
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Old 08-15-2016, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by phatboislim View Post
i was told something pretty key that actually worked excellent for me. i was told to gear the motor to the speed that you want and then crank the timing down to get the temps down to what i want. it worked well for me
I can kinda go with that...

My theory is, if I'm running 1/12 for instance, and I'm at a 94mm RO and my temps are 110*F I know I'm not getting everything out of the motor. I'll bump the timing up 1 line and see where it takes me (providing I'm not over timing the rotor I chose to run). It also works in reverse, if temps are 170's I drop 1 line. Swinging timing up and down will have a much more dramatic effect on motor temps.... BUT....

The real key though are the lap times. There have been many instances where I come off at 150*F+ and I'm only fading .3, so there's no reason to change anything

So... The moral of the story is not to base the motors performance only off of temps, top 5 laps and fade will tell the real story

Another tidbit of info that I spoke about... lol... Over timing the rotor you choose... For most applications we run stronger rotors now. With 1/12 being a lower voltage source you can't get away with higher timing and be efficient (on very high bite tracks with a 4 line). The most timing you'll want is 40* on a motolyser. Most of the time you'll be 36 to 38* on a motolyser. If you run a 2 line rotor you can get away with higher timing without killing the efficiency.

It's a crazy game to play with the different strength rotors, but general guidelines are stronger rotors = less timing and more gear, weaker rotors = higher timing and lower gear.
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Old 08-15-2016, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by toddmanley View Post
Hoping to get some insights from the TSR experts - currently running a 17.5 "The 1" motor in a TLR 22 3.0 laydown transmission buggy. My home track is Norcal Hobbies and I'm trying to determine how to balance the right mix of motor timing and gearing. Currently running 64 pitch gearing - 42/96 right now.

After taking a 3-month break I got back on the track and it took forever for me to get around to tweaking the timing and gearing to get more punch out of the corners. Initially timing was turned all the way up to the 45* mark - I backed that down to around 32* and found more low-end torque.

So here's my question - with my current gearing and timing, in addition to a fan which keeps my motor temps right around 95-100*, where should I focus my attention? Not sure if playing around with timing is where I should focus...or should I pay more attention to pinion gearing? My goal is to get more bottom-end rip out of the corners with top speed being secondary.
When you tried it at 45*, where were you gearing wise? In theory that 45* and a smaller pinion that should give you the most rip. If it was lacking you coulda been over geared still.
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Old 08-15-2016, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by sg1 View Post
When you tried it at 45*, where were you gearing wise? In theory that 45* and a smaller pinion that should give you the most rip. If it was lacking you coulda been over geared still.
I can't remember 100% but I might have been geared at 39/96.
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Old 08-16-2016, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by sg1 View Post
Yes, go 45*, if you snug the timing screws down and it looks like 44*, go with it, close enough

With that much timing you'll see 2 things, you can be over and under geared and not have bottom end.

Start with a smaller than what you think pinion and work your way up to find the sweet spot. Motor temps with a fan may be 120 to 130*F depending on ambient temps.
Cheers mate..Will try this weekend and come back.
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Old 08-16-2016, 07:25 AM
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I'm using a 21.5 TSR The One in our 21.5 Pan Car oval class. Run line is 144' medium/high bite. Endbell @ 45. Rollout is 4.44. The car ran good and temps were around 130. However, the motor fell off around the two minute mark. I also tried to drop timing, added gear but times went down. Seems like the TSR motors like lower rollouts. Any recommendations to pick up more speed w/o fading?
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Old 08-16-2016, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by RC4413 View Post
I'm using a 21.5 TSR The One in our 21.5 Pan Car oval class. Run line is 144' medium/high bite. Endbell @ 45. Rollout is 4.44. The car ran good and temps were around 130. However, the motor fell off around the two minute mark. I also tried to drop timing, added gear but times went down. Seems like the TSR motors like lower rollouts. Any recommendations to pick up more speed w/o fading?
What rotor are you running with it, 12.5 4 line?
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:16 AM
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Seems like everyone is pretty happy with the spec motors, does anyone have feedback on their mod motors? Are they smooth but still have plenty of rip?
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by fenton06 View Post
Seems like everyone is pretty happy with the spec motors, does anyone have feedback on their mod motors? Are they smooth but still have plenty of rip?
I've ran an 8.5 in 2wd Mod and a 6.5 in 1/12th scale and both were very good! They don't give up speed to anyone in my experience. You won't be disappointed.
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:29 AM
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Since the new motor rules in VTA I have seen first hand how well the Team Scream 25.5 has been doing in that class. Very fast!
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Old 08-16-2016, 03:32 PM
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Wondering if I have a bearing problem / debris issue in a 21.5 The 1. Seems like I am getting some drag from the motor occasionally when hand spinning the drive train. Occasionally there is drag then it goes away. I disengage the pinion from the spur and check drive train and it is as free as ever but when I re engage there is drag. I have 4 xray t4's so I'm very familiar with how they feel hand spinning when free motor engaged or not. I have added oil on several occasions to the front bearing thinking maybe a bit of debris has gotten in the bearing case maybe hoping the oil would help work it out? It seems that adding the oil has possibly helped it free up but not positive as the problem seems to come and go. Right now everything is free again and I am hoping the problem is gone. I've never seen how motor bearings act when going bad and am wondering if this is a sign of that? There has been no noise or other symptoms noticed from the front bearing. I havent taken anything apart yet as I'm kind of in wait and see if the problem goes away or not mode. Any suggestions would be great.

Thanks
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Old 08-16-2016, 04:27 PM
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I would suggest doing a bit more investigation if you're only judging it by wheelspin with and without a pinion on. You could have an issue in the drivetrain in the spur gear area or belts that you only see under load.

If you aren't comfortable taking the motor apart I would still take it out of the car and compare with a motor with similar rotor strength using a pinion to spin them. I would still ask someone knowledgeable to take the motor apart for a good inspection in the stator area, there could be a piece of metal (body clip, bearing, etc) stuck in there.

Waiting to see if it solves itself could cause more damage if there is something lodged in there.
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Old 08-16-2016, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by sg1 View Post
What rotor are you running with it, 12.5 4 line?
The rotor is a 12.5 3 line. Please let me know if there is a different rotor I should try. Thank you in advance.
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