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Old 12-11-2005, 08:43 PM   #3976
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Originally Posted by theisgroup
i have not owned a smart tray. but here is what I do. I have a 0-30 and a dynapulse. I use the 0-30 before I charge. I leave it on the tray for about 2-3 mins. and then charge. at the end of the race day, I run the dynapulse on each pack. this takes it down to .9/cell and then I store until next weekend. I just picked up one of the tekin trays that promatch sells. It is very similar to the trays they use to make. I will probably look at using this tray before I charge to equalize all the cells. this tray take the cells down to .5v/cell. I think that is too low to store the cells. the big thing is to try and store the cells at .9v/cell and to take then down at the highest amp load that you would be running. And then to equalize the cells before you charge. the problem at least with the 0-30 is that it only equalizes when it is at 0v. I like the tekin tray because it takes them down to .5v and equalizes them at .5v

if you go through the ib3800 thread, i believe that Rayhuang and danny at smc have a recommendation for the novak tray. actually search that thread for my posts asking about care of the ib3800. that is where Ray and Danny made there suggestion and ray uses the novak tray.

I have had my ib3800 packs for about 3 months now and they are as punchy as the day I got them. Actually they are just as fast as the packs I got last week. 10.0-10.2 with 3 month old packs and 10.1-10.2.
I found your post, and I have a few questions about the SMC method.
They say that you should discharge to .9 volts after a raceday and then before you charge them put them in a high amp discharge tray for 1-2 minutes (this is pretty much what promtach says except for the high amp tray). When you discharge to .9 volts what Amp rate should this be at? And does it have to be in a tray? Since you arent taking the cells all the way to zero on the high amp tray, that probably wont equalize the cells, so you have to equalize them when you take them down to .9 volts? I have an integy 16x5v6 that can discharge at 20A, but it cuts off at .8 volts (apparently you can trick it into doing around .9). I race off road, so the 20A may be realistic. If anyone could clarify the promatch method also, or reccomend equipment for either method, that would be great.
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Old 12-11-2005, 08:52 PM   #3977
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the idea is to take the batteries down to .9 at the rate that you race. currently the believe is 30amp. The problem is that there is not an equalizing tray that actually equalizes at anything other then 0v. so that is why i use the 0-30. an equalizing tray holds the voltage of each cell at the same voltage. so cell 1 could be at Xvolt or 10 seconds longer then any other cell. i leave it for 2 mins on the 0-30 so that all cell with e at 0volts before you charge. Now that the tekin is our. this tray holds all cells to .5volt. so it keeps cell 1 at .5volts until all the cells are at .5 volts.

whole pack dischargers are not equalizing so you are not going to get each cell at the same voltage at the end of the discharge. that is why most are using trays. give you an example. my gfx discharge to .9v/cell and then charge, I only get about 3500-3700mah into the pack. using the 0-30 down to 0, i put 4300-4500mah into the pack and the pack temps are the same for both.
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:19 AM   #3978
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I see what your saying with the trays, but according to Danny, you dont take the cells all the way down to zero in the 1-2 minutes, and if thats the case the cells arent being equalized.
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Old 12-12-2005, 05:01 AM   #3979
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In reference to AE Racer's capacity issue, you just need to slightly raise the cutoff as was said earlier and get them to the correct temp. I highly doubt the batteries you have from cheapbatteries.com are better than the ones you purchased from us. I have some 3800's well over 4200mah and IF there is something worng with a pack all you have to do is call Erika or Jeff and they will replace it. Also as the guys have said cycling a pack like you have done is a waste of a run, not to mention you can't compare numbers on a pack with completely different equipment. Not to mention a 10 amp discharge when they are matched at 30 amps. Rest assured the batteries you have are some of the best in business matched by one of the most trusted and honest guys in the business. Follow the recommendations these guys have given you in the above posts and you should be fine....if you are still unsure about what you have purchased call them and they will make sure you are happy.
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Old 12-12-2005, 06:24 AM   #3980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AE Racer
I see what your saying with the trays, but according to Danny, you dont take the cells all the way down to zero in the 1-2 minutes, and if thats the case the cells arent being equalized.
actually you are equalizing the cells. if you take a volt meter to the cells after 2 mins while they are still hooked up, you will see that the voltage potential between the 2 poles are zero. what i beleive Danny said was that in 1-2 min you are not bringing the cell down to zero completely. this take a long time. keep your meter on the cell and then disconnect the tray, you will see that the voltage re-generates and is back up to 1.1-1.2 with no load. if you leave it on this tray for an extended period of time, and then remove the cell, you will see that the cell will not regenerate. so you are allowing the tray to equalize the cell, just at zero, you are just not letting it finish with the equalizing cycle.

that is probably why promatchrcr is having good luck with the tekin tray. it does this process at 0.5 volts and not zero. you can leave it on this tray longer and through more of the equalizing process and not hurt the cells as much as bringing them down to zero
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Old 12-12-2005, 08:37 AM   #3981
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You are correct sir! The 0-30 does a great job of high current discharging but the Tekin takes care of gently equalizing the cells.
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Old 12-12-2005, 07:34 PM   #3982
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Anyone have photos of the Tekin Unit?
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Old 12-12-2005, 07:39 PM   #3983
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Yup....

http://www.promatchracing.com/tekin.htm
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Old 12-12-2005, 07:57 PM   #3984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theisgroup
actually you are equalizing the cells. if you take a volt meter to the cells after 2 mins while they are still hooked up, you will see that the voltage potential between the 2 poles are zero. what i beleive Danny said was that in 1-2 min you are not bringing the cell down to zero completely. this take a long time. keep your meter on the cell and then disconnect the tray, you will see that the voltage re-generates and is back up to 1.1-1.2 with no load. if you leave it on this tray for an extended period of time, and then remove the cell, you will see that the cell will not regenerate. so you are allowing the tray to equalize the cell, just at zero, you are just not letting it finish with the equalizing cycle.

that is probably why promatchrcr is having good luck with the tekin tray. it does this process at 0.5 volts and not zero. you can leave it on this tray longer and through more of the equalizing process and not hurt the cells as much as bringing them down to zero
I see, but wont some cells reach zero sooner and lose more capacity than the cells that reach zero later? With a tray that cuts off at a higher voltage, wouldnt the cells be at pretty much the same capacity when they reach the same voltage, although I guess that only happens in a tray that breaks the circuit after the cell has reached a certain voltage, and although capacity will be the same differnet cells will break the circuit at different times and rise in voltage un equalizing the voltage. And I guess a tray that holds the cells at a certain voltage will have the same thing with capacity? I dont know that much about electronics so I may be wrong in my whole idea about the relation between voltage and capacity.
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Old 12-12-2005, 08:03 PM   #3985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by promatchrcr
You are correct sir! The 0-30 does a great job of high current discharging but the Tekin takes care of gently equalizing the cells.
Could you clarify the promatch method for me, and what trays and dischargers are used? Who were you referring to with the correct comment, my last post of theisgroup's response? Im not trying to prove Im right or anything I just want to understand.
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Old 12-12-2005, 08:12 PM   #3986
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Also does the battery doctor hold the cells at .5 volts or does it break the circuit once they have reached .5 volts? What do you think of the Team Wave tray? http://www.teamwaveonline.com/main/Product It seems like it can equalize both capacity and voltage, and keep the cells at the cut-off voltage, the only disadvantage looks to be that its lowest vutoff is .7v, I dont know if that is a problem or not.
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Old 12-12-2005, 08:35 PM   #3987
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Can someone recommend settings for charging ib 3800's and GP3700's on a pulsar comp 2?

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Old 12-12-2005, 08:37 PM   #3988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AE Racer
I see, but wont some cells reach zero sooner and lose more capacity than the cells that reach zero later? With a tray that cuts off at a higher voltage, wouldnt the cells be at pretty much the same capacity when they reach the same voltage, although I guess that only happens in a tray that breaks the circuit after the cell has reached a certain voltage, and although capacity will be the same differnet cells will break the circuit at different times and rise in voltage un equalizing the voltage. And I guess a tray that holds the cells at a certain voltage will have the same thing with capacity? I dont know that much about electronics so I may be wrong in my whole idea about the relation between voltage and capacity.
not sure what you are asking as far as capacity. the tekin tray bring the cells down to .5v and hold them there. it does not just stop the discharge one the cell reaches .5, it basically allows the cell to regenerate and then brings it down again. a battery will normally do this for quite a while. so basically the tray cycles on then off always stopping at .5v per cell if left on the tray long enough, the cell will eventually be at zero, since this is a passive tray the logic is driven by the battery that is being equalized.

when you talk capacity, you are talking mah(miliAmp hours) what is left in the cell when the tray reaches .5 will be very little mah, but you will never know what it is until you reach 0v. so no, each cell will not be at the same capacity when you take the pack off the tray unless you leave it in the tray soo long that you bring all cells down to 0v.

If you are asking if the tray is basically pulling out the same mah from each cell, then as long as you maintain your pack, then yes, they will basically pull the same mah out of each cell. aproaximately
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Old 12-12-2005, 08:49 PM   #3989
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Is it .5 volts per cell for a reason or is the tray chosen just because it keeps the cells a .5 volts? If its not chosen for the specific voltage, it seems that the team wave tray would be a better alternative because instead of turning on and off, it adjusts the discharge rate to keep the cell at that voltage, and takes the current down to zero.
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Old 12-12-2005, 08:57 PM   #3990
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from tekin's forum

.9 volt is the standard cutoff for matching under load or emptying a pack after a race. When your goal is to do a gentle, complete discharge and balance .5 volt is good. The batteries are completely dead, balanced and not damaged. When removed from the tray the pack will slowly rebound to the nominal voltage of 1.2volt per cell.

During testing we noticed no runtime loss, even if the battery pack sat in the tray fo 6 weeks,
This tray is digital, there are no ceramic stone resistors or bulbs, the tray has a built in .7 volt cutoff in a the first few hours and a .5 volt cut off over extended periods of time and will not falter below this level , Ask for this product in your local hobby shop now!
This tray is a must have item for battery maint

team wave site:

When cut-off voltage (User select from 0.7V to 1.0V in 0.01V increment) is reached, the system will automatically lower the discharge current so as to maintain the cell voltage at the desired cut-off level and let the discharge process to continue

so basically the two do the same thing until cut off and then one shuts off and then on, while the other just reduces its dischager current down to something small, so as not to exceed the cut off.
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Last edited by theisgroup; 12-12-2005 at 09:09 PM.
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