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Old 11-06-2003, 06:58 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by EAMotorsports
Ive already started on them...Just got to do some fine tunning!!

ea
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:14 PM   #77
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Guys;

Interesting fact here.

Our Electric Motors run in a clockwise direction (facing the pinion end) and Nitro Engines run counterclockwise. Never really paid attention before.
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:16 PM   #78
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It depends what side of the planet your on.
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:17 PM   #79
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No they dont Popsracer...the electric ones go counter clockwise if you are looking at the shaft end of the motor....everyone is confused...

ea
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:27 PM   #80
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EAM,

You're right. I just ran a motor on my GFX and it does spin opposite that of the pic. With that said and the brushes inout as shown in the pic that would be "ADVANCING"? If the brushes were flipped it would "RETARDING"? I think I "FINALLY" got it thanks to the pic from Seaball and your comments. Thank you very much.

Seaball,

Awesome pic brutha. You amaze me sometimes......
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:30 PM   #81
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Rob Im glad someone agrees!! I thought I was beging to loose what little mind I have!! LOL Yes the pic is correct in that cut will advance the timing. Flip the brush over to retard the timing.

ea
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:35 PM   #82
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Default AHhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

EAMotorsports;

Serves me right for using my kids TL01 to figure it out. I was looking at the wrong gear turning.

But BOTH Nitro and Electric Motors run counter-clockwise when facing the output shaft.

Last edited by popsracer; 11-07-2003 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 11-07-2003, 06:48 AM   #83
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Default the pics

whoops,

i overlooked what the arrow represented in the original pic. looking from the endbell side first, it is not correct if it refers to armature direction of rotation. it is correct if you use the arrow to represent which direction to turn the endbell to increase timing.

hey, i just copied it.
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Old 11-07-2003, 10:01 AM   #84
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Perhaps CAD drawings will help with visualization.
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Old 11-07-2003, 10:44 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by seaball
thanks miked,

you may be on to something. however, as i understand it, brush alignment is not defined as the brush face aligning, or seating on the com, but that the force provided by the brush itself be aligned or directed at the center of the com or arm.
Yes and no, an aligned brush will be directed at the center of the comm. In theory, the brush will have the tendency to self-align itself to the to the comm because of it's shape. The alignment problem is a direct result of misaligned brush hoods and force placed on the brush face from the comm. There will always be a small amount of play between the brush hoods and brushes. The less play the better, but you can't get rid of it all. This play will rotate the brush in the direction of retarding the timing as the motor spins. This is why the bar and rod alignment tools for motors are useless. (I know I'll get some flack for that, but it's true.) If there is any slop between the brushes and hoods, then the brush hoods should not be aligned directly at the center of the comm.

Quote:
Originally posted by seaball
by your definition, the brush hoods could be aimed almost anywhere, and the brushes would eventually break in providing total contact or a full seat. the brush hood alignment tools are out there to keep this from occuring.
This is true, the brush will eventually seat fully no matter how the brush hood is aligned. The trick is to get the brush to seat when it is aligned directly at the center of the comm.

Quote:
Originally posted by seaball
in theory, if enough material was removed from the width of the brush, say over 50%, the brush could not direct any force at the center, as it would be offset, and the spring force would inhibit rotation of the com. the brushes would sort of be in shear. if the com were removed, the faces would actually not contact each other, but slide past each other like scissors. regardless of the contact patch, i would not think this scenario to be considered aligned.
You are on the right track trying to understand how the mechanical forces are applied to the brush. This is key in understanding how and why brushes become misaligned. The force that the comm puts on the brush is radial to the surface of the comm. In your diagram, you drew a resultant force in the direction of the centerline of the brush. To some degree this is true, but not complete. An advanced cut will have a component force in the direction of the centerline of the brush and also a component force perpendicular to the centerline of the brush in the direction of the advanced cut. It really not a driving factor in aligning the brush so it can be ignored. The major contributor to brush misalignment is the force placed on the brush from the rotating comm. This force is applied to the brush tangent to the comm surface, in the direction of rotation, at the location where the brush contact the comm. This force is the main cause of misaligned brushes because it shifts the brush side to side and rotates the brush in the brush hood. The larger the play is between the brush and hood, the more the brush can move in the hood as the motor spins, and the more the misaligned the brush can become.

Quote:
Originally posted by seaball
i am not trying to be overly critical here for my amusement, but because some people swear by going to the extent of aligning each hood by the wear patern of the brush. insisting that cocking of the brush will exhibit noticeably poor perfermance. which is like within a few .000ths. wouldn't this phenomenon be seen with timed brushes as well?

our timed brush cuts are along the lines of what....030 or so? a typical dremel disk thickness? that's not really negligeable, is it?
Sometimes you need to be overly critical to build a fast stock motor. I am one of those people that swear by aligning the hood by the wear pattern on the brush. Who cares if the hoods are straight if the brushes shift and rotate when the motor spins? Personally I would prefer to have my hoods not straight and my brushes aligned.
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Old 11-07-2003, 10:58 AM   #86
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Mike, outstanding explaination! Do you have a powerpoint presentation ready?
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Old 11-07-2003, 11:01 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by RCInfinity
Mike, outstanding explaination! Do you have a powerpoint presentation ready?
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Old 11-07-2003, 11:12 AM   #88
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This is why Mikes so fast. I bet it's not cause he's an outstanding driver as well and knows all the theory.

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Old 11-07-2003, 11:38 AM   #89
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Thumbs up dude!

that's what i'm talking about! that was rad. many thanks.

i can dig it.

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Last edited by seaball; 11-07-2003 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 11-07-2003, 12:01 PM   #90
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Default Re: dude!

Quote:
Originally posted by seaball
that's what i'm talking about! that was rad. many thanks.

i can dig it.

a quick one. we move the hoods to align the brushes, why don't we simply move them to change the timing as well? so that we would have a full face brush with altered motor timing.

Moving the hoods to change the timing would work, but it could be difficult to get equal amounts of timing on both brushes. It's hard enough to align the brushes with no timing advance! Besides cranking and mangling the hoods doesn't go over with tech officials.... something about 'no brush hood modifications.'
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