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Old 11-05-2003, 04:08 PM   #46
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It depends on the motor which way it will need to be installed...But cutting the LEADING edge does tricks the motor into less timing and cutting the TRAILING edge tricks it into more timing.

If the motor has huge RPM and not enough torque then use a leading edge cut. If it has lots of torque and not enough RPM use a trailing edge cut. Also make sure that the brush hoods are properly aligned. The method me, todd and everyone else (Besides big jim) is to remove the endbell and use a bar through both hoods at the same time to make sure the brushes are 180 apart. We NEVER align the hoods seperate.

Thanks BDR....I might not know much but I do know how to tweak a motor!!!!

ea
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Old 11-05-2003, 05:12 PM   #47
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On Brush hood alignment,Why in your opinion is it better to align them 180 deg. from each other?
I found that doing this the brushes do "NOT" ride on the comm correctly or evenly.Most of the time,I do use that method to find out witch brush needs tweaked and what way it needs moved.

I am always open for opinions and suggestions on motor building.

I do like the Putnam brushes very much and Tribo and always a hole in the brush.
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Old 11-05-2003, 06:50 PM   #48
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Default Aligning Brushes

Guys;

I also use the through the Hood method and under a magnifier my Brushes look spot on. I must admit that this technique works better on EPIC Motors than most others and it really depends how well the Brushes fit in the Hoods.
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Old 11-05-2003, 07:51 PM   #49
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Hi all,

I know most of the posts here are mostly related to stock and that's fine because Putnam's stock motors with the awesome green/ blue brushes combined with his springs are unmatched!

I would also like to start discussions here about his mod motors, 19T Arcor and Cameleons.
I have never seen motors that produce power like this with this much efficiency!
Last season we ran a 10T limit in our clubs and guys including me can dump our 3300 before 5 min. in touring. Since the Putnam's have arrived, we have scrapped the 10T limit and I have seen my 3300 with an 8T last over 7 min. WOW!!!
Other guys have also seen this and can't get over the power.
This also applies to both 2 and 4 magnet motors.
Lots of people have had alot of problems with the 4 magnet KR based motors. they overheat, use up battery power, burn brushes and comms. Putnam motors combined with his brushes and springs is nothing like this. First hand experience.

Lastly, one advise would be to gear down. On average, about 3 to 4 tooth(64 pitch) lower than you would normally gear another brand of the same turn.

Let's here from Putnam mod users and questions.
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Old 11-05-2003, 09:02 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by rcmotorhead
On Brush hood alignment,Why in your opinion is it better to align them 180 deg. from each other?
I found that doing this the brushes do "NOT" ride on the comm correctly or evenly.Most of the time,I do use that method to find out witch brush needs tweaked and what way it needs moved.

I am always open for opinions and suggestions on motor building.

I do like the Putnam brushes very much and Tribo and always a hole in the brush.
I cant really answer that question other than to tell you that when I started to run for Putnam 3 years ago, about the same time Big Jim started on the old Hobbytalk thread, I asked Todd what method he used and he said the bar through the hood's and that the only person he knew that done them seperate was Big Jim.. So take it for what its worth...Always works for me

eric a
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Old 11-05-2003, 09:06 PM   #51
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I am with EAM on alignment for sure. C. Doseck is also a pretty good motor tuner and this is how he does it. Learned from an old schooler "Tate"...................

The whole brush cut and trailing/leading edge is what gets me

EAM,

If I cut .175 off one side of the brush and put the brush in the motor with the cut to the right (Monster stock). Is that timing up or down???????????????????
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Old 11-05-2003, 09:08 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by EAMotorsports
I cant really answer that question other than to tell you that when I started to run for Putnam 3 years ago, about the same time Big Jim started on the old Hobbytalk thread, I asked Todd what method he used and he said the bar through the hood's and that the only person he knew that done them seperate was Big Jim.. So take it for what its worth...Always works for me

eric a
Would seam (I'm speculating here) that having both hoods aligned the same matters more, even if they are both "off" a tad.
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Old 11-05-2003, 09:17 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by RBLove
If I cut .175 off one side of the brush and put the brush in the motor with the cut to the right (Monster stock). Is that timing up or down??????????????????? [/B]
that would be advancing.I think.Now I am confused!
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Old 11-05-2003, 09:25 PM   #54
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I run for Putnam for a 50% deal they are awesome people in New York. The are kinda slow to replying to emails because they are busy all the time. So if anyone needs any help send me a PM and ill do my best to answer all the questions you might have or ask RCINFINITY.

Cody Gary,
Team PutnamPropulsion.
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Old 11-05-2003, 10:15 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by RBLove
I am with EAM on alignment for sure. C. Doseck is also a pretty good motor tuner and this is how he does it. Learned from an old schooler "Tate"...................

The whole brush cut and trailing/leading edge is what gets me

EAM,

If I cut .175 off one side of the brush and put the brush in the motor with the cut to the right (Monster stock). Is that timing up or down???????????????????
Rob that would be retarding the timing according to todd. Guess I am going to have to build a motor to prove it to myself again!! LOL.

Because on the paradox motors we put a tiny hole all the way through the brush out the back side and then made the hole in the face a little bigger then took .020 off the trailing edge to give it some RPM....he said this was putting timing in the motor.

On the monster's he said do the opposite on the cut if the RPM is high and you need torque.

I dont race stock much anymore and only have one monster motor so I will go and play with it tomorrow and let you know what I find.

ea
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Old 11-06-2003, 05:29 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by EAMotorsports


I dont race stock much anymore and only have one monster motor so I will go and play with it tomorrow and let you know what I find.

ea

So whena re ya going to play with the other motors you know which ones
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Old 11-06-2003, 05:34 AM   #57
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Hey Eric how you doin? The ole magnet zapper is still working strong. We don't run much stock either but have started playing with the Monsters and the zapper.

In electric theory all DC motors turn the same direction. If you point your left index finger at the endbell your left thumb will indicate the direction the motor will turn. To me the leading edge would be to the left side of the brush as that is the edge which contacts the comm first. The confusion comes in which end of the shaft you are looking at, the endbell or the output. We always use the "Left Hand Rule for Motors" to keep it consistent.

Last weekend we ran a small hole offset to the leading side of the brush and it seemed to really make the motor come alive. Any thoughts?

Jake will start running some 12th Mod oval after Cleveland. Better duck. LOL
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:00 AM   #58
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hey fellas,

this is some good stuff. i've never had a great monster, but using the putnum gr/bl combo this past weekend seemed to due quite well.

as far as the timing issue goes. some clarity might be given by simply looking at the motor. with our stockers, we have 24*of positive timing. my understanding, based on some deductions, is that the endbell is rotated 24* from zero.

upon inspection, you'll notice that this angle is made between the bisecting plane through the center of the magnets, and the centerline through the brush hoods. knowing this, it is easy to see how each cut affects the overall timing that the motor will see.

another, and maybe easier, way to see this is to compare the zero timing mark on the can (usually marked by the rectangular cut in the edge of the can) with the zero mark (indentation) in the endbell. they should be 24* apart. now look at which way the endbell needs to rotate to either increase or decrease this angle. that is what timing the brushes does. the motor sees an apparent rotation of the endbell by shifting the center of contact of the brushes via an asymmetrical width trimming.

that is my understanding, and i'd surely want to know if i have misinformed anyone.

hopefully this helps.
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:27 AM   #59
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here is a drawing of an advance cut....this would be looking down on the motor, the arrow shows direction of rotation...hope this helps
Attached Images
File Type: bmp advance cut.bmp (193.1 KB, 401 views)
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Old 11-06-2003, 10:21 AM   #60
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good pic,

it does bring to light something else, at least for me. and that is this:

though exaggerated, it is easy to see that timed cuts take formerly alligned brushes and, basically, misalign them.

after the many claims i've read about aligning the brushes and the profound effects that this has on overall power #'s, i'm wondering how affective this method is. i do undertand the inverse proportionality between torque and rpm when timing is changed, but wouldn't overall power #'s decrease from poor alignment? or does advancing the timing alter the amount of current that the motor will draw, in turn, making a generally more aggressive motor?

uh oh.

keep in mind that realigning the hoods after the cut is made will negate any timing effect that the cut was intended to accomplish.
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