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Old 03-22-2004, 02:32 PM   #4321
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Quote:
Originally posted by AdR|aN
No offence but i think your contradicting yourself.
Not realy. I'm not allowed to sell the VIOL packs. These are labeled "Team Packs" and i didn't have to pay for them. Thats why i still have them. If and when i'm done with them they go back to Olli.
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Old 03-22-2004, 02:38 PM   #4322
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On that note, I think that only .2 seconds off a lap time from Fukuyama 1.17's packs compared to team packs from another matcher is excelent results. By far im sure the team pack is higher discharge voltage and IR than a pack that anyone can buy over the counter. Common, you're comparing a team pack to a general public pack.
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Old 03-22-2004, 02:55 PM   #4323
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Dan, YGM
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Old 03-22-2004, 03:07 PM   #4324
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Fontaine
On that note, I think that only .2 seconds off a lap time from Fukuyama 1.17's packs compared to team packs from another matcher is excelent results. By far im sure the team pack is higher discharge voltage and IR than a pack that anyone can buy over the counter. Common, you're comparing a team pack to a general public pack.
John,

This might be true, but you have to take in account that the packs i'm comparing them to are 8 months old and have been used arround 30 times.
Again, the post was not to crack down on FukuYama becouse there is basicely nothing wrong with the packs. It was just to put things in perspective. One sometimes needs a bit of objectivity to stay down to earth. It sometimes even helps to improve the product.

Regards

btw, this is a healty conversation. I like it.
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Old 03-22-2004, 06:18 PM   #4325
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I have always wondered about this.....

Why is it that people say something like "the pack will get better after a few cycles" or " the first couple of cycles will suck" when the cells are supposed to have been cycled 3 to a gazillion times to stabilize before matching? If the cell has stabilized, it should run great from the first cycle, right? What am I missing?

I am not pointing fingers at anybody in particular. I have heard/read this as a universal "truth" regarding all matched batteries from all vendors.

Mike in Arkansas
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Old 03-22-2004, 07:30 PM   #4326
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I live in Asia. Its very hard for my LHS to get their hands on a decent number of match cells.
Usually, we wouldnt know how long have the cells been staying uncharge at the counter.
All my brand new cells has charge up to more then 4000 mAH at 6 amp charging rate with a Peak Voltage at 9.01.
After a few cycles, the charge rate would be normal at around 3400mAH at 6 amp charging rate with a Peak Voltage at 8.98+.
Even though i am now charging less mAH into the packs but my run time has since improved.
I don know why too.
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Old 03-22-2004, 11:05 PM   #4327
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Quote:
Originally posted by Manning
I have always wondered about this.....

Why is it that people say something like "the pack will get better after a few cycles" or " the first couple of cycles will suck" when the cells are supposed to have been cycled 3 to a gazillion times to stabilize before matching? If the cell has stabilized, it should run great from the first cycle, right? What am I missing?

I am not pointing fingers at anybody in particular. I have heard/read this as a universal "truth" regarding all matched batteries from all vendors.

Mike in Arkansas
Mike,

The way I have come to understand matched packs is that most companies are cycling individual cells, and not cells as whole packs. This is how they get voltage/runtime/ir readings. They then "match" them together and box them up. I believe it takes a few charges as a "pack" to get the cells to be balanced electrically. I believe it has to do with getting the cells to "work" together as a pack.

Perhaps Dan can explain it better...

Buddha
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Old 03-23-2004, 02:33 AM   #4328
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Quote:
Originally posted by Manning
I have always wondered about this.....

Why is it that people say something like "the pack will get better after a few cycles" or " the first couple of cycles will suck" when the cells are supposed to have been cycled 3 to a gazillion times to stabilize before matching? If the cell has stabilized, it should run great from the first cycle, right? What am I missing?

I am not pointing fingers at anybody in particular. I have heard/read this as a universal "truth" regarding all matched batteries from all vendors.

Mike in Arkansas
Yep, this a very good an interesting question.
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Old 03-23-2004, 02:41 AM   #4329
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Quote:
Originally posted by AdR|aN
I live in Asia. Its very hard for my LHS to get their hands on a decent number of match cells.
Usually, we wouldnt know how long have the cells been staying uncharge at the counter.
All my brand new cells has charge up to more then 4000 mAH at 6 amp charging rate with a Peak Voltage at 9.01.
After a few cycles, the charge rate would be normal at around 3400mAH at 6 amp charging rate with a Peak Voltage at 8.98+.
Even though i am now charging less mAH into the packs but my run time has since improved.
I don know why too.
Adrian,

First charge is always the 4000maH case, I believe. At least it happens on all my packs.

I do think the charging capacity is directly related to the discharging method and time. I have enough data to show that if the battery is left more than 5 hours (preferbably) on a discharger, you will get more charging capacity. Else, if you are just discharging for 1 hour or so, you will get your normal 3400 or so.

That's why most of the serious racers would have a few dischargers to keep their cell on it overnight and only charge it before the race.
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Old 03-23-2004, 06:16 AM   #4330
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Hardriven RC - I understand that you're not saying anything bad about the cells, but you have to compare apples with apples. Right now you're comparing apples to oranges (Fuku cells vs VIOL), even though the oranges are getting a little spoiled and discolored

I bet you really would like to get you hands on some of my team packs. Than you'll really know what Fukuyama can do. I can't disclose the numbers but they're sweeet.

Adrian - those are some sweet numbers, you're charging the cells right and they'll love you for it.

RCbuddah - you are correct, all the cells are matched individually and than sorted and arranged in packs to be sent to the customer. Because they are matched as close as possible, it should eliminate a lot of the cycles to get them to perform to their fullest. After all, that's why you buy matched cells. The best performance of cells on and after the first cycle!

KJ - I think that a bunch of dischargers were necessary with NiCD cells (ie the old 2400 Sanyo's), but not with NiMH like the GP3300's Fukuyama is matching. You shouldn't be taking these cells down past .8 or .9 v/cell. It will mess with the chemicals inside the cells and reduce performance of the cells.

Hope this clears things up.

John
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Old 03-23-2004, 06:28 AM   #4331
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What do you guys think of equalizing brand new cells on an active equalizer with 0,9 volt cut off, before the first charge?

My point of view is, why not do all you can to ensure they are even from the very beginning.
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Old 03-23-2004, 07:12 AM   #4332
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I do that with my Rayspeed discharger after I build new packs. Because Fukuyama is so good, they're always on the money for the time they hit .9v/c is within 5 seconds fresh off the boat.
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Old 03-23-2004, 09:52 AM   #4333
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Fontaine
Adrian - those are some sweet numbers, you're charging the cells right and they'll love you for it.
Hi John. THanks for the compliment. But i myself have some questions on my own.

How many cycles does a match pack goes through before it starts to be "NORMAL' cell? I mean by "NORMAL" cells meaning the voltage, IR, run time and etc. start to change from one and another.

Another question is, how can i make sure that my match cells will stay that way - MATCH ? I currently equalize my cells with Trinity Real Time 2 down to 0.9v before i charge them. Is this good enough? Thought of getting a Rayspeed Discharger/Equalizer cos i don need to babysit it while in a race and i can do other stuff while the batteries sit in it.

Hope to get some help.

TIA
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Old 03-23-2004, 09:55 AM   #4334
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Quote:
Originally posted by KJ
I do think the charging capacity is directly related to the discharging method and time. I have enough data to show that if the battery is left more than 5 hours (preferbably) on a discharger, you will get more charging capacity. Else, if you are just discharging for 1 hour or so, you will get your normal 3400 or so.
IMHO, i don think that if the batteries are left on a discharger for more then 5 hours are really necessary. You may be able to put in more mAH into your cells but i believe your run time would still be the same (maybe a little more, i am not sure).

Correct me on this.
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Old 03-23-2004, 09:55 AM   #4335
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Does anyone know how i am best contacting Fukuyama racing as i sent them a email a few weeks ago but got no response. I want to know when they think the 1.17+ packs will be back in stock if anyone knows? Thanks Rick
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