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Old 06-27-2006, 10:42 PM   #436
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Just for the record, the "NEW" stock motor is available NOW, with

bearings, or with bushings.

I'm so proud of you guys, nice to see we can have a discussion with

real racers, and everyone's opinion respected! Thanks!

Judi
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Old 06-27-2006, 11:05 PM   #437
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I was very suprised when I heard about the new epic stocker with bearings. I am sure there is a place for them but as of now they are illegal. The quad magnet motors were illegal as well so I do not see this a lot different. Bearings do give you more coasting through the corners were stocks have a natural drag break but this is about the major advantage to bearings. The biggest issue I would have is putting bearings in a stock motor would make just about everything you have right now obsolete. That is of course unless they raise the MSRP cap on stock motors and resubmit all the current stock motors with bearings so people can "upgrade" everything they got. I will cost between $4-8 depending on where you are getting bearings to upgrade your "stock" motor to bearings also. I just do not see this as a cost cutting change that will lower the cost for the average racer or basher. I am not sure what we are trying to gain. Again I really see 19T as filling this gap. I do kind of agree with Jeremy. Stock for Spt, 19T for expert spec class and mod for big races. Not sure if it would help or hurt turnout though. There are a lot of sportsman guys that like to run stock and 19t to keep them selves busy during big races. It is a class that is competative and helps increase entries which is more money for the tracks.
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Old 06-27-2006, 11:32 PM   #438
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Casper, I'm adding some thoughts here for people that don't know some of

these things. Legal or not legal doesn't seem to matter. Remember, we had the rebuildables

before they were legal. Probably about 90% of stock motors never see a race track! One other thing, we can not compete in the price

game to submit a price for stock motors for use at sanctioned Roar events.

That's why OEM companies usually don't care if a stock motor is legal or not, and by that I mean submitted for approval by the mfg. Our

motors are never used at a Roar event, only hand-outs. Race tracks, stores,

and customers determine what we sell. I would also add, I have heard of stock motors selling well beyond the "legal" price in some stores.

Scott and I are really enjoying this thread. It's the one place we can really

express our views, without being censored!

As long as you're nice to me!!

Judi
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Old 06-27-2006, 11:59 PM   #439
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The issue of cost, and will it save money. Scott wants to address some

of these issues later, we'll start another "Question" on that.

But, I would like to throw this out. We thought that when rebuildables came

out, we would lower costs. After all, you could get a new arm, get a new

can, buy new brush-hoods, etc. etc. I have NEVER had a store willing to

carry parts, they only want to sell whole motors. A real business counts

"shelf" space, and must use that for the most profitable items! So, they're

thinking, do I use that space for 50 different pieces parts, or 50 motors.

I have customers that buy parts, and stores will "special" order parts.

My point is, we need to discuss all the issues when deciding what's good

for the hobby, and when discussing costs, all issues need to be taken into

account. Casper made some very good points there.

I realize we will NOT change anyone's mind about what the mfg.'s will make,

but I think it's good to "thrash" these things out. Helps people new to the

hobby understand a little about how things work.

Judi
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Old 06-28-2006, 08:06 AM   #440
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Good points Judi. It is always good to get that inside info you have on the other side of the business (making and selling motors vs. buying them! ). I agree the rebuildables have not fullfilled the promise of being able to replace piece parts but it has made working on the motors to keep them in top shape a heck of a lot easier then the older sealed endbell motors. I remember those clumsy lathes you had to take the brush hood off for and you got bad cuts on due to the arm not being supported great by the bushings in the can. I think that was the best thing to come from the rebuildable motors. It also allowed the racer to shim the motors as required. I also understand that racers are by FAR the minority in this hobby. Working at hobby shops on and off for the past 14 years has taught me that. The basher will not be able to really tell the difference between bearings and bushings IMO but they will see the price tag difference and they will be told how much better it will be. The fact of the matter is the basher will run the motor until the brushes wear down the shunts and never cut the motor until is stops running so bearings are not going to help that motor out a ton. Also some really cheap budget mods come with bushings. If you just look at those motors the bearing version is about $8 more then the bushing version of the same motor. Not sure if the mark up is justified but if we make stock motors price go up by $4-10 due to bearings it just makes mod racing or even brushless more attactive. If we are thinking of the budget basher though companies like "T" and "O" make budget mods that go for under $20. These are cheaper then current stock motors.
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Old 06-28-2006, 05:41 PM   #441
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Hey guys I was just curious if you've had any short problems with the composite endbells on the checkpoint based mods?

i cooked a g11 last weekend and was just a little curious about that, the feedback i'm getting off the tekin forum is motor but i'm not so sure about that just curious what you guys think?

especially since i ran the rest of the night with the same motor and a qc2 w/o any more problems

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Old 06-28-2006, 05:44 PM   #442
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Casper, I don't look at the budget mods when I'm in the shop, but I think

that's a great statement. Budget mods for $20.00, which means the shop

pays at least 30% less than that. So, since you've worked in a shop, what

is the difference between them and a stock motor??

Machine wound, same magnets, same cans, possibly a cheaper plastic

endbell, am I close????

Judi
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Old 06-28-2006, 05:51 PM   #443
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Machine wound plastic endbells and usualy older technology. I think the manufactures use there older style cans and arms for making these motors. Bearing motors as cheap as $23. These are usually 21-14 turn motors. These are the cheapest I have seen some of these. More typically you can get a machine wound mod for around 30-40 which is a stock motor price. You can get machine wound budget mods down in the 11 turn range as well. They do not perform as well as a handwound but for the budget basher they represent a good deal and tyically are faster then a high end stock. Again the basher will not take care of the motor so after about 15-20 runs on a conventional brushed motor it's performance starts to die pretty bad but again we are talking about the "hobbiest" and not the racers. As a hobby motor bearings in a stock motor is fine. These reportedly super high RPM bearing stocks that just came out would not be what I would sell a basher though. I would give them something with a little more bottom end since it will most likely go in a truck to chase cats and drive though grass.
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Old 06-28-2006, 05:51 PM   #444
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Jeremy, Check your PM...

Frenchy
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Old 06-28-2006, 06:03 PM   #445
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Travis, only problems have been Tekin speed controls. The CP

endbells that we use are NOT the aluminum, which is why we use the

composite, THEY DO NOT SHORT.

Obviously, the motor was fine since you ran it with another kind

of speed control. WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU!!!!

Even P2K2 stock motors are gliching with Tekins, and from all different

"tuners" !

Judi
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Old 06-28-2006, 06:46 PM   #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanzaiMom
Travis, only problems have been Tekin speed controls. The CP

endbells that we use are NOT the aluminum, which is why we use the

composite, THEY DO NOT SHORT.

Obviously, the motor was fine since you ran it with another kind

of speed control. WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU!!!!

Even P2K2 stock motors are gliching with Tekins, and from all different

"tuners" !

Judi
Judi
Thank you for the prompt answer

that's pretty much what i was thinking

Travis
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Old 06-28-2006, 07:55 PM   #447
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Casper, yes, I realize we're talking about back yard cat chasers!!!

I was just looking at "costs", and what is similiar and what is different.

I don't believe that the cost of stock motors need to be as high as they

are right now. Working on some figures about that today, I'll post later.

I hate to bring up brushless, because of course, we don't like the idea of

being put out of business, because we love making motors as well as being

racers.! But if we are to survive, we need to compete in cost, and of course,

making a product with less maintenance. We can't keep raising prices while

brushless continues to come down.

I'm just taking in everything you all say, and mixing it with what we know.

Judi
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Old 06-29-2006, 08:27 PM   #448
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Talked to Jimmy today at Hot Rod Hobbies. The hand-out motor

for the Sportsman Stock class will be the "Core" stock motor.

Expert Stock will be "bring your own" , translated means BANZAI!

Shoot-Out dates are July 14-16.

If you have any questions about the Shoot-Out, you can post them

here, all of us California people will be happy to answer!

Judi
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Old 06-29-2006, 08:34 PM   #449
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Judi -

Would anyone be able to "help" me tune my Core's when I get them for the shoot-out?
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Old 06-29-2006, 10:35 PM   #450
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Nutfluff, we sure will!! Scott and I will be there, Jeremy Hase, and Casper!

Any other sportsman drivers that need help, just look for the guys wearing

Banzai T-Shirts. We have a great group of team drivers, all willing to

help and quite good at tuning motors in their own right!! Jeremy Felles

will also be there to help with any mod questions. He's been running the

new Banzai mod motors for quite some time now.

I think Jimmy said he would have the hand-outs on Wednesday, not sure

about that. Are you going to get yours that early Nutfluff??

Judi
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