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Old 01-31-2008, 12:11 AM   #466
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As much as it's great to build the odd "mad ripper", I actually pride myself more on keeping a very tight range on all of the motors that we ship in the eXtreme line! It's no good if there are only a few fast motors to go around - we need to take care of all of the customers, and so far so good!
Hey Gang,

A wise man just brought to my attention that I may have inadvertently caused a bit of a bad connotation with my use of "mad ripper" in that post particularly with regard to our new competitors the "Mad Scientists" out of Calgary.

It actually didn't cross my mind at the time as I was actually referring to all you guys that e-mail me for the fastest "mad rip" that I have in stock, and that's what I was getting at.

We pride ourselves at T-Bang for being really straight-up, honest businessmen that base our information on facts and science, and definitely I don't want to get into any fun-slinging with our competitors, and my original post was to make a point I really want to get out there, so let me try again!

Here's the scoop - the #1 question I get from our customers and team drivers is "Can I get a really fast motor so I can kick everyone's butt?"

There's this notion that there are lots of stand-out motors that motor tuners hoard for their team guys and friends and so on. Guys have gone as far as telling me that they don't want my regular motors - only the fast ones. (Seriously!)

All that I'm trying to say is that the state of the motors and our process has reached a state where these "mad ripper" motors are not that common at all, and even if they show up they generally get shipped out to our customers and dealers with everything else. We don't have the motive or time to hoard these suckers in a vault or something!

The other reality here is that we're talking about less than 5% in most cases where this comes up. For example, a run of 20 stockers might average peak power of 117W. One might show up at 124W. Mad rip? Maybe. But even if that reading is consistent, it's a 5.9% premium. A second pull on a motor might yield +/- 2-3W. At that point, it's only a 3% premium!

What I'm getting at is that the only metric that really matters is, "Does this motor meet our minimum specs for a T-Bang Extreme Motor?". Do we see a reasonable balance of top RPM, efficiency, power curve, and torque? If so, it passes. If not, it does not. Simple. Mad ripper? I don't know. There are too many factors that go into that when it's mounted in a car to be able to predict it on a dyno. We just know that it looks good and it's track worthy - any other information that someone may infer from those graphs is useful, but needs to be approached with caution.

That's all - apologies for any confusion I may have caused with my comments. Hopefully this is good data and explains why I grow weary of the hunt for ripper.
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Old 01-31-2008, 12:14 AM   #467
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Hey, Kevin.

Way to go with WCICS! Maybe I can make it out that way next year. I'd love to at least make the trip to support you guys.

Do you have any plans to switch over to LiPo at all? Just curious what racers are planning for. It would be great to get testimonials about the on-track difference between the two.

Bye for now.

P.
Thanks Phil I hope that you can make it out to Regina area for a race that would be great. My next big race is the WCIC in Regina Feb 22-24 We are hoping for a great turn out like we had last year. We had over 60 racers last year.
As of right now I haven't planed on switching over to LiPo's yet...I don't have a charger that would charge them right yet LOL. I am a slow changer stick with what is working right now let others do the testing. LOL Hope to see you guys soon again at a race.
Kevin
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Old 01-31-2008, 12:14 AM   #468
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Just to let you know Trent;

I have a reedy flash modified motor on the way in, and I'll swap out the existing arm for the 23 turn arm I've been running. I figure it'll add a little more torque to the already killer setup I have going.
You will definitely see more torque from a mod can. The magnets in the Reedy's tend to be quite a bit stronger. The other option would be to go to a 27T arm in a regular can. Depends what is easiest to set up for you!

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Also, one10 might be changing their schedule in the future so that it works better with OGR's schedule.
I think this would be a positive development. The Lower Mainland scene is sparse enough as-is, there's way more strength in numbers if there can be a little bit of cross-over between the groups.

This may or may not help me though! I've got twins on the way in the next 2 weeks or so, and apparently people are telling me this may impact my schedule.
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Old 01-31-2008, 12:24 AM   #469
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Hey T can you send me out one of those motors that will make me faster...you know one of those special motors the one you should just keep for me in stock! LOL That was a good post about the Motors and how they get shipped out.
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Old 01-31-2008, 12:28 AM   #470
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hey trent,

can i have a fast motor this time?

LOL

jk jk
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:06 AM   #471
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I knew I'd get a bunch of jokers hitting me up after that one. I guess I brought it on myself.

Just because you asked, I promise you guys will get the fastest motors I've ever made next time you order*.

You both need to get the new XB Brushless motors anyhow! Toss a 3.5 in there and forget about tuning. You'll be asking us if we can slow it down so you don't crap your pants.






* If I can remember which motor tubes I put them in.
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:15 AM   #472
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Sorry, Matt. KillerKeving got 'em! LOL Just kidding back at you, Matt.

Trent speaks truth, people. I take a peek when I get the inventory over here to see what's what. I must say, that in the last six months I have never seen so many motors with identical numbers (or at least unusually close) in one of the different measurements. Freakish, actually. What we're speculating about is that the manufacturing processes are more and more consistent which naturally impacts those outliers and general variance. Folks don't often think of this or know about it and I wonder if the speculation about "voodoo" this or "voodoo" that is simply a hangover from the earlier lifecycles of a production motor where larger variances might occur. Just a speculation but it does make sense...

Trent is so spot-on with the calls we often receive from folks wanting killer motors as if they are a special production run or something magical and mystical has happened during the break-in or brush soldering Quite frankly I used to think this way for a long time ... until I've actually seen the numbers in huge batches the likes of which Trent tunes. Lots of myth out there, that's for sure!

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Old 01-31-2008, 03:44 AM   #473
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This may or may not help me though! I've got twins on the way in the next 2 weeks or so, and apparently people are telling me this may impact my schedule.
Before this happens, can you try and make it out to one of our events? We start to tear down about 10 PM, so you can head home, grab dinner.. relax for an hour or so and still have time to come out.
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Old 01-31-2008, 07:58 AM   #474
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Before this happens, can you try and make it out to one of our events? We start to tear down about 10 PM, so you can head home, grab dinner.. relax for an hour or so and still have time to come out.

I'll have to take it up with the "domestic resource allocation department".

She's been a benevolant dictator, but doesn't seem to have as much patience for RC shenanigans for some reason right now! I'm guessing it's the beach ball sized belly full of twins that's putting her off.

Actually, I'm officially on a break to get all this stuff taken care of and to keep the business and motors on track while we adjust to our new additions. I'll be back at the track in April sometime if things go as planned!
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Old 01-31-2008, 08:13 AM   #475
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A couple more things on the tuning/voodoo motor front that came to mind after reading the replies:

People underestimate how important the sample size is when you're making decisions about setting up a motor or making an adjustment to your current tuning regime. That's the other thing that can be counter productive with the stand-out motors from a batch. The notion that all of the other motors can be "tuned up" to match the best one from a batch or a hypothetical target does not work in practice because of the variances in winding of the armatures and magnets in the can and so forth.

We try to mitigate these differences with things like zapping to ensure the magnets are all at full strength before assembly as well as unifying variables like brush hoods, spring tensions, and so on. Other things like the position of the magnets in the can, and the winding of the armature are effectively parts of the motor's "DNA" that will be carried with it for it's lifespan.

If you use the scientific method of changing one variable at a time across a broad set of samples, you can see the effect that your ideas have on the motors much better than fixating on what makes a particular motor the fastest, because often, the "DNA" is the major contributing factor and you can't change that in the shop.

By using a specific process across a broad sample range and experimenting with very specific ideas, we can shake down what actually has an impact on the performance of a group of motors, which is a better indication of long term performance characteristics. The odd freakshow motor is interesting to see what you can glean from it, but more often than not my experience is that it's the "DNA" of the motor as opposed to anything that I would claim I have done to it.

The other thing is that the plot of all this looks incredibly similar to the "bell curve" which we've all seen before. On typical run, we get a large number of motors in the same range, the odd one above, and the odd one below expectations.

On the flip side, we have a lot of loyal customers that come back because the motors are "always fast", and that's exactly what we're shooting for by monitoring trends on the larger sample sizes.

The other big difference is that we run our own dyno software which I wrote for doing this exact thing.... It actually tracks every pull I've ever done for each type of motor we produce. This is an awesome database for me to draw on when I need to look at the overall performance expectations for a given type of motor and so forth.

T
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Old 01-31-2008, 11:50 PM   #476
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wow.. Hey T...thanks for the Mad Ripper motor you lend me...doop!!!!...did I said it out loud. haa..haa JK!!!! there's too much science in here. Feels like I'm back in physic's class again.
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Old 02-01-2008, 08:40 AM   #477
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Hey, Chris.

F1 parts and tires are now in stock! If you're looking for tuning options check it out. Tires are in the database and will be priced today. If you'd like to try Corally foam, I'd recommend the Gold Dot rears and Goldstar Med or Hard Fronts.

P.
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:04 PM   #478
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Hey, Chris.

F1 parts and tires are now in stock! If you're looking for tuning options check it out. Tires are in the database and will be priced today. If you'd like to try Corally foam, I'd recommend the Gold Dot rears and Goldstar Med or Hard Fronts.

P.
Hi Phil,

Thanks. I'll check them out and let you know. So far, the kit tires are performing very well. I had basically gone from putting 1/4 frt inner to half of the tire with traction compound. The traction and turn in are amazing. Every corners it responded very well. Jack the ripper and the tire combo gives me the zipper...haa.haa.
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:44 PM   #479
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Default Brushless Dyno is On-Line!

We are extremely excited to announce that the upgrades to the T-Banger Dyno System were a success! Last night, for the first time, I was able to dyno a new T-Bang XB Proto 10.5 brushless motor!

This is the final step we needed in our progression towards providing top notch brushless motors to the next gen racing market. As with all of our other products, we feel it is critical to offer performance data and information to back up the products so that our customers can understand the performance characteristics of their T-Bang motors.

Our first sample compares an XB Proto 10.5 to our ever popular X19 Hemi K motor - and, not surprisingly, there are some very interesting differences in how these powerplants make their HP.

We'd be happy to discuss these and future results with everyone - please visit our site at www.t-bang.ca and take a look at the latest news!

T
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Old 02-03-2008, 11:04 PM   #480
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We are extremely excited to announce that the upgrades to the T-Banger Dyno System were a success! Last night, for the first time, I was able to dyno a new T-Bang XB Proto 10.5 brushless motor!

This is the final step we needed in our progression towards providing top notch brushless motors to the next gen racing market. As with all of our other products, we feel it is critical to offer performance data and information to back up the products so that our customers can understand the performance characteristics of their T-Bang motors.

Our first sample compares an XB Proto 10.5 to our ever popular X19 Hemi K motor - and, not surprisingly, there are some very interesting differences in how these powerplants make their HP.

We'd be happy to discuss these and future results with everyone - please visit our site at www.t-bang.ca and take a look at the latest news!

T
Nice work T. So still waiting for the babies
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