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Old 05-28-2007, 09:36 AM   #241
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Awesome! Thanks for checking in with us Tony! I fired you an e-mail with the details, but just for everyone else's interest.... here are the highlights:

4499 is a pretty safe and consistent pick, good power, particularly good RPM, and very consistent. The Finish Line “F” Brush tends to make a little bit more power in stock motors at the expense of a bit of consistency. They are another very good choice though. Finally, for sustained high RPM/outdoor racing and so forth, we also have a brush we call the “T-Brush” which is a vented cavity brush with extra lubricants. It can take a beating. Given that the bikes are a bit lighter though, I would assume that they might be easier on the motors, so 4499’s or F-brushes might be the ticket.

Spring-wise, I tend to find that higher tension springs move the power curve torward the high RPM range, and softer springs decrease spool up time. You can tweak a bit for the track. Standard on that stock motor is Red+, Green-.
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Old 05-28-2007, 01:24 PM   #242
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cheers for the help, in fact the bikes are heavy 1.9kg, but think its due to the maybe far smoother use and not really using the braking on them that the motors seem to live forever
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Old 05-28-2007, 10:01 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac-racing
cheers for the help, in fact the bikes are heavy 1.9kg, but think its due to the maybe far smoother use and not really using the braking on them that the motors seem to live forever
That's wild - I didn't realize they weighed in that heavy. Definitely smooth driving makes a big difference, even in Touring Cars.

Keep us posted as to how it goes - if there's anything we can test on this side for you, just let me know. I think you're the first guy running T-Bang power in a bike.
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Old 05-31-2007, 09:01 AM   #244
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Hi Trent, please excuse the questions from such a noob, but I just ordered and aranged for delivery tomoro morning one of your 27t stock motors, the E model, the only one legal in the UK.

anyway Im interested in knowng what brushes you supply with it as new

I assume its ready to drop in and cane the tits off it, or should I just run it up for a bit,

we are allowed to ballrace 27T stock motors in the bike class so got a set of ceramic ball bearings waitnig for it

the scrutineering for sundays national will also be running the top 3 guys motors on a robitronic dyno as well to see what difference there is, so I look forward to seeing how your motor fairs against the others

looking to compare my used one with skimmed down comm, and 4499 brushes against a new out of the box one

can I buy just comms from you? just wondering with regards to reducing the comm intially before use and therefore not getting as much use, but getting more power hmm power is everything

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Old 05-31-2007, 09:38 PM   #245
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Hey Trent I just wanted to see how things are going? I cant wait till fall for my indoor season to start so I can rock that new motor I got from you.
I know its fast but unfortunately I got it at the end of the season.
I am going to have to get one for my 1/12 car what would you suggest.
I am running the crc gen-x kit.
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Old 05-31-2007, 10:06 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac-racing
Hi Trent, please excuse the questions from such a noob, but I just ordered and aranged for delivery tomoro morning one of your 27t stock motors, the E model, the only one legal in the UK.
Awesome! Thanks for that. We appreciate the business.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ac-racing
anyway Im interested in knowng what brushes you supply with it as new
The default build on the Type E has a "Timed" T-Brush in it. They are set up to make lots of RPM out of the box. The 4499 and F-Brush are both good alternatives in that motor. It's definitely worth feeling them out to see what works best for your bike.

The T-Brush is sauced and baked with a special lubricant to make it wear longer and run cooler. We also vent them to help with heat on the comm. Might work well for the bikes..... definitely let me know what you think!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ac-racing
I assume its ready to drop in and cane the tits off it, or should I just run it up for a bit,
You bet - they are broken in here at the shop prior to the dyno run and then we skim them again and do a short break in on the way out the door. The only thing to check is just to make sure the bushings haven't dried at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ac-racing
we are allowed to ballrace 27T stock motors in the bike class so got a set of ceramic ball bearings waitnig for it
Sweet. You can forget about oiling those bushings then.

You should see more RPM and efficiency with the bearings. There will be a lot less resistance, particularly at high RPM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ac-racing
the scrutineering for sundays national will also be running the top 3 guys motors on a robitronic dyno as well to see what difference there is, so I look forward to seeing how your motor fairs against the others

looking to compare my used one with skimmed down comm, and 4499 brushes against a new out of the box one
Sweet. Hopefully it stands up against the competition!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ac-racing
can I buy just comms from you? just wondering with regards to reducing the comm intially before use and therefore not getting as much use, but getting more power hmm power is everything
You bet. We sell the comms separate as well. If they're not on the site already, I will get them up there. The dealers in the UK will be able to get them from us as well.

Cutting them down before using them can be a mixed bag - It does work, but you can also get a lot of effect from brush cuts and spring tuning as well. If you have access to a dyno, it would be good to keep a log of comm dia / max power. In fact - that's something I should put up on the site. I'll try get around to that one of these days!

Good luck! Any questions, problems, comments, etc. - just give us a shout.
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Old 05-31-2007, 10:13 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clint
Hey Trent I just wanted to see how things are going? I cant wait till fall for my indoor season to start so I can rock that new motor I got from you.
I know its fast but unfortunately I got it at the end of the season.
I am going to have to get one for my 1/12 car what would you suggest.
I am running the crc gen-x kit.
Hey Clint!

All is well. We're very busy these days with the combination of lots of orders (thanks to everyone for that!) and a heavy R&D schedule for the next-gen program. Brushless and LiPo have been treating me well lately - I have worked most of the gremlins out of the system. At the track last weekend, I was turning Lap Times on par with the Nitro guys, and getting 9-10mins of run-time!

For 12th scale stock, the Type X motor has been extremely popular, and the guys have had great results with them. They rev a bit higher, and are more efficient than the Type C for that application, so it's sort of a win-win situation. Virtually everyone that made the switch for their pan car was happy with it.

Kevin can probably comment a bit more on that as he ran a Type C for the first half of the season last year, and switched over to the X. I ran 19T for the most part last year as that's all we had around here.

Glad to hear from you - keep in touch. Fall will be here soon (although I'm not wishing it upon us just yet!)

T
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Old 06-01-2007, 09:34 AM   #248
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thanks Im currently looking at the CS and the fantom dynos just for playing with at home, Im also very interested to see the characteristic changes with comm dia size reduction

got my new motor this morning, really like the look of them brushes, if nothing else I will leave them hanging out and psyche the competition out that way LOL

your swift replies and advice is greatly appreciated, I just hope that I can do the motor justice this weekend, weather allowing

I plan to run the used 4499 equiped motor and the new one both in timed practice to see if theres a vast differnece on track, then hopefully get them both on the CS dyno sunday

because we use the power/acceleration to actually stand the bike up out of corners etc, I like running motors that rev very high, and tend to gear that bit lower than everyone else anyway, revving out on the straight wont harm it,( and theres only one track here in the UK that we use with a real long straight anyway) but it makes it stand up quicker, and also so much more responsive out of corners.

stock bikes arent slow anyway I beel radar gunned at just over 40mph at a meeting, the superbikes with lipo and brushless are far lighter and well over 50mph, almost breaking 60mph at some tracks
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Old 06-02-2007, 01:41 PM   #249
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glad you got the motor ok...

if there is anything else we can do for you gives us a shout...

lee
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Old 06-04-2007, 04:59 AM   #250
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cheers for the great service, very swift

was surprised at the noticable on track difference between the new one, and the well skimmed one

gearing needed altering, but very impressed, didnt get time to run them up on the dyno as meeting was running a little overtime.

for my application and personal style the 4499 was the brush on the day

managed 3rd in the A final at this weekends BRCA bikes meeting, currently after 3 rounds Im in 2nd place, the stock bike class is moving so fast in technology terms that its amazing, 1st place in the championship is almost a foregone conclusion really, the guy is smooth and fast, most important, consistant and experienced, this is my first bike season, but I expect to get 3rd at worst I hope, my problem is that I dont tend to do very well in qualifying, but always come good in the finals, sadly with points for qualifying as well this obviously dents my progress a little

motor performed well through qualifying, but I still have a lot to learn about skimming, brushes and tuning etc, think I will start to take up a more touring car style approach with the motors and skim/brush etc as often as needed, even if its every round now, as mine was extremely quick on its first run bedded in with new 4499 brushes, but even though the comm looked fine, it had lost its edge by the next run.

my problem is that I have no confidence with doing the motors, I have just about always managed to get them to go slower after rebuilding them than they were before

next important question is where to get bulk supplies of decent brushes
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Old 06-04-2007, 08:39 AM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac-racing View Post
cheers for the great service, very swift

was surprised at the noticable on track difference between the new one, and the well skimmed one

gearing needed altering, but very impressed, didnt get time to run them up on the dyno as meeting was running a little overtime.

for my application and personal style the 4499 was the brush on the day

managed 3rd in the A final at this weekends BRCA bikes meeting, currently after 3 rounds Im in 2nd place, the stock bike class is moving so fast in technology terms that its amazing, 1st place in the championship is almost a foregone conclusion really, the guy is smooth and fast, most important, consistant and experienced, this is my first bike season, but I expect to get 3rd at worst I hope, my problem is that I dont tend to do very well in qualifying, but always come good in the finals, sadly with points for qualifying as well this obviously dents my progress a little

motor performed well through qualifying, but I still have a lot to learn about skimming, brushes and tuning etc, think I will start to take up a more touring car style approach with the motors and skim/brush etc as often as needed, even if its every round now, as mine was extremely quick on its first run bedded in with new 4499 brushes, but even though the comm looked fine, it had lost its edge by the next run.

my problem is that I have no confidence with doing the motors, I have just about always managed to get them to go slower after rebuilding them than they were before

next important question is where to get bulk supplies of decent brushes
Awesome! Congrats on the strong finish Tony, and thanks again for letting us know how things worked out there! We really appreciate the info.

As you noted - re-brushing can be pretty important. Sometimes, it also works to just take a skim between runs and do a quick break-in. 99% of the time, if there are problems after a re-build it's usually just that the driver didn't do a thorough enough break-in after switching the brushes. By just skimming the comm, you leave the shape and break-in of the brush intact, but give it a clean surface to bite into. Also, cleaning the face of the brush with a fiber stick goes a long way too.

Nothing better than a very consistent routine of cutting, re-brushing, breaking in, and then potentially re-skimming between runs, but it depends on how much time you've got.

What was the difference between the new motor, and the smaller comm motor - RPM, Torque, both?

As for bulk brushes - Rapid RC is able to stock them from us if needed.


Thanks again, and nice work!

T
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Old 06-04-2007, 02:05 PM   #252
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Hi, yeah the skimmed motor has been skimmed within a thousandth of an inch of its life, all in the name of science you understand was really revvy and awesome top end revs, but lacking low down, had to gear accordingly and keep the speed up, set my personal best lap record with it, but it really required a perfect clean run with no interuptions etc from other bikes, else the momentum was lost,

the new motor with 4499 brushes and green/red springing was lacking slightly just on the top end, but the midrange strength more than made up for it, I wasnt as fast with that one, but it was far easier to make good time and could afford a lightly different line to avoid others etc but not pay the price in speed on exit from the corner. knock on effect being better qualifying time

going to have an experiment with more different brushes, got some of my favourite XXX le mans silvers here, and some 4505 as well,

Im now at the point where I dont mind what I have to do, temptation is to run 2 or 3 different motors that way got time to spare to rebuild as I can go along with 3 newly built motors and just slowly carely rebuild each one while the next 1 or 2 are in use, on average I only get maybe 40 minutes between runs, and with any shock, geometry and tyre changes to sort, along with checking the cell discharge equalise/charge regime time can get a bit short

when finances allow if I run stock next year I will try and take a big box of freshly built and setup ones, one per run

I have to sort out how to do it all properly anyway before the worlds in september, waste of time going all the way to italy with slow motors

5 runs a day, if I have to run new brushes every time I dont care now, in reality whats £3.50 for a pair of brushes each run, compared to the 600 mile round drive I have to go for national series racing for the weekend (especially with the price of fuel over here)
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Old 06-05-2007, 01:04 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clint View Post
Hey Trent I just wanted to see how things are going? I cant wait till fall for my indoor season to start so I can rock that new motor I got from you.
I know its fast but unfortunately I got it at the end of the season.
I am going to have to get one for my 1/12 car what would you suggest.
I am running the crc gen-x kit.
Like Trent said I ran a Type C last year in 12th and had ok success using it, but what I did find on the track that I compared the X to the type C on was that I was getting a faster fast lap and better overall times in qualifying with the X stock. The track I did the testing on was a 90' x 48' track and was set up pretty free flowing. I didn't get to do alot of testing on it but I talked to a CRC team driver and he said that the type x was better than the type C motor for him in 12th.
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Old 06-18-2007, 09:22 PM   #254
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Hey Trent.....you have an email
Hope to see you soon.
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Old 06-24-2007, 07:35 PM   #255
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Trent, You have mail!

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