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Do you guys even make a 3400mAh 18C Lipo?

Do you guys even make a 3400mAh 18C Lipo?

Old 06-03-2009, 02:05 PM
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Default Do you guys even make a 3400mAh 18C Lipo?

SMC, I think I accidently stirred up a shit storm when I just wanted some questions answered in regards to this guys post

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8821191/tm.htm

I have been told via HPI directly that 25C is what they recommend to run their Savage Flux to keep from frying the ESC from voltage drops and spikes as a result of a lower quality and or rated battery. So now im just REALLY confused on what is accurate and what is not.

1. Do you guys even make this battery?

2. If you do, 3400mAH at 18C only equates to 62 continous amps, far below HPI and Castle Creations recommended 120 amps to power the MMM ESC.

I didn't mean to start anything, I'm just a concerned Flux owner who wants to prevent damaging his expensive Flux from the wrong battery.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...-pick-you.html

http://www.rctech.net/forum/monster-...imh-diffs.html

I sent the following email and got the following response. Can you help clear this out for me? To many Savage Flux's have died as a result of incorrect batteries being installed, and it needs to stop.

Dear SMC,

It has come to my attention as well as many other Flux owners that very possibly one of your associates is spreading VERY misleading and inaccurate information about the battery requirements in regards to HPI's Savage Flux, particularly the MMM ESC created and provided by Castle Creations. It has been stated both via the HPI Flux manual and Castle Creations president that the MMM will work best and most reliably with battery systems that are able to provide 120 continuous amps which equates to a rating of 25C or above on Lipo batteries. Castle themselves have stated that lower rated and or quality batteries severely risks power spikes and fluctuations that can easily destroy the MMM ESC. I would like further details and investigation into this as already many peoples Flux's MMM's have died as a result of poor battery choices and having your associates giving MORE false information is going to lead to Castle and HPI have some VERY angry customers.

I am currently running your 6000mAH 28C Lipo hard cased Sport MAX batteries on my Savage Flux and they are doing very well and im very impressed with the run time and power they provide my truck. Being my first brushless RC as well as Lipo usage, my initial impression of your products is very high. However, I will not tolerate a company that gives false and misleading information that results in peoples products being damaged and destroyed and I ask on behalf of me and MANY other brushless RC trucks for an inquiry into this.

Sincerely,

Bryce F Livingston
HPI Savage Flux owner and concerned SMC battery owner.



Dear Freezebyte,

I'm sorry that I didn't receive your email here as I have an email address not listed on our website. I'm assuming that you are talking about our 5200mAh 24C 2s 7.4v hardcase pack, part # 5224LD. This pack has been used by myself and another employee for several months now in the Savage FLUX with zero issues. HPI has several of these packs and have tested them with zero issues. Our "C" rating is different from other battery company "C" rating as our manufacturer uses 90% capacity retention when measuring the "C" rating. Other companies use between 70% and 80%, making there "C" rating look much higher than it actually is. If Castle Creations wants to test some of our LiPo's, or all of them for that matter, and make an evaluation of what does and does not work from the SMC line then we are more than willing to send them every style pack that can be used with the MMM. If I or we have given any information as to what we have used or what HPI has used with nothing but good results, this is our evaluation and we post our results. We can't speak for "C" ratings from other companies, but, ours is a TRUE "C" rating. If you would like any more information on our products, please email our owner directly, [email protected]

I'm glad our 6028LD has made a good impression on you. It is a very good pack.

Sincerely,

Bryan @ SMC a.k.a.
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:47 AM
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Well, im a complete and utter fail after getting these emails from SMC. Kudos to SMC for wanting to set the record straight even though I was a fault.



Bryce,

We have ran the 3418LD in our trucks with no problems. We each only have about 10-15 runs on the packs and our ESC is in good shape. The system still performs the way it did when it was brand new. We just got back from the No Limit R/C World Finals and my truck was good enough to win the long jump on 2 2S packs, some 63 feet I believe, even after supposedly doing damage after using the lower "C" rated batteries. If I or anyone that is associated with SMC say that our 18C, 24C, or any other "C" rated battery works fine in a particular application, this is our testing. If we haven't fried anything on our trucks why would anyone else. As I explained to you yesterday, each company's "C" rating can and probably is measured differently, so a 18C SMC may be equivalent to another company's 25C. As I also stated yesterday, one of HPI's drivers/employee used that same pack the entire weekend at the Toyota Long Beach Grand Prix two months ago and had zero issues while using those packs. And yes, I did talk to a gentleman yesterday and told him that the pack works with the MMM to our knowledge. I told him that I couldn't guarantee him anything as this is based solely on our information and information given to us by those who test our products.

The most important detail in this theory of needing a 25C or 30C battery so stated by CC is...What battery do they recommend? Have they tested a battery that has a TRUE "C" rating? I have only heard of one customer who has an issue with any of SMC's LiPo's in his FLUX. He was using our 2624LD, 2600 mAh 24C LiPo. The owner thought that his charger may have been the issue so we tested the same packs in my personal FLUX Savage. I charged the packs, ran the truck then as soon as the batteries died I brought them right back to the charger and did the process all over again. I ran those packs 4 consecutive times, no breaks, no down time unless you count charging as down time) with zero issues. If there are issues with our products, we should see them as we run our two trucks 4 days a week, 2-3 times each day.

I'll check out the link in your email now. Also, I understand you want to protect your investment as I want to protect mine. The FLUX Savage is by no means a cheap or starter R/C vehicle but the general R/C public need to understand that ALL electronics can have issues! An ESC, motor, battery, servo, receiver...Any thing can have a defect.

Thanks,

Bryan @ SMC





Bryce,

Just looked @ the hpi manual and it says..."We recommend battery packs with a 25C rating or better. Using batteries with a lower C rating may result in damage to your batteries." CC may have more information to there products, but it doesn't say that lower "C" rated batteries will damage the ESC, at least not in the hpi manual. I just looked at your thread in the last email and I didn't see any posts from anyone saying they had fried a MMM ESC form using lower "C" rated batteries. The only thing I saw was a guy being picked apart for using a lower "C" rated battery, ours of course. As I told the gentleman yesterday, we see good results, we do not say we recommend them, nor do we say hpi recommends them. Our testing shows they are capable of usage without harm to any component of the truck. I also told the gentleman that we have a 5500 mAh 28C 11.1v LiPo if the 18C would not work or was not up to his standards.

SMC is not in the business of providing false or misleading information. We do not advertise in any magazine, so our strong backing and long list of customers comes solely from word of mouth and track performance. Hobbyists are sold on our great reputation and our high quality products. I'm sorry if we disagree on the requirements of the CC MMM ESC, but this is just from OUR personal testing. Again, thank you for the kind words about our 6028LD packs. They are a hot item and they work very well in the FLUX Savage as power output and runtime is very impressive. I hope you continue to have great success with our products and continue to be a supporter of SMC's.

Thanks,

Bryan @ SMC
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:48 AM
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Another email from Bryan at SMC. Whata nice guy





Bryce,

Actually, he pm'd me and told me to look at what he had posted. He is a friend from the hpisavageforum, but I did not send him on there. You haven't inconvenienced SMC or me. You wanted a straight answer and we or I did the best to our abilities to bring this to you. The internet can be a horrible place and it can be a very nice place to hang out and chat and trust me, I know about things getting scrambled in translation. We don't have plans as of now to bring out a hardcase LiPo in 3s configuration as it would greatly reduce the capacity of the pack. If you call up HPI and ask to speak to Michael McAllister is customer service, he will tell you that he was running the softcase 8000mAh 28C and 9000mAh 28C 2s packs throughout the weekend at the World Finals. These softcase packs were also used by myself, our other employee Scott, John Schultz from HPI and just about all of the No Limit R/C staff and groups. There is always the possibility that a pack can become damaged, even in a hardcase and I have seen this happen. If you would like to run the softcase packs, you could cut some .30 or.40 lexan strips to cover up the holes in the battery box, keeping rocks and debris out of the compartment. As for the wires, yes they are a bit short but the battery box needs to be modified for issue free usage. Everyone I know with a Savage Flux, even the HPI guys, remove some material from the top of the box, allowing the wires to come directly out of the top instead of trying to fandangle them through the "way to small" opening on the back of the compartment. I think I have pics somewhere of my personal modification. If you need them, let me know.

Again, no worries or hard feelings about this issue. We are here for our customers and you fall into that category.

Thanks,

Bryan @ SMC
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Old 06-09-2009, 11:40 AM
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I can understand why HPI would make such a claim as there is allot of cheaply made Lipos on the market and there is no set standard for calculating C rate.

In some of our tests we have seen some companies claim 25C and we could only get 15C out of them based on our way of testing C rate. We can't really say that they are cheating as they might just have another way of rating there C rate. The same goes for capacity.

I'm not an electrical engineer but I wonder why a less powerful battery could damage the speed control. I would think that a more powerful pack could create more issues.
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