M03 night bash/race - 30 Jan 2008 - 7pm
01-31-2008, 09:05 AM
#16
I'm missing out on the fun...shucks.... wish i ran with you guys.
CG too high is a inherent problem of any race car. (even F1 chassis designers will think their CG is too high if they are not winning the world championship... not kidding... race car engineers always think their car can be improved)
The heaviest component(the battery) sitting way above the roll center will never help a chassis like the M03. Softer shocks and high grip tires will only worsen the traction rolling issue, tested, proven. You can try harder damping and spring, it will help, but at the limit the car will traction roll even more violently. Harder springs allow lower ride height too, which also helps. Think 3mm is the min for mini.
Positive camber helps by reducing grip. But wears tire in a weird manner. Why not try lower grip ones all together and run negative camber? That way your tires can last way longer.
By the way. What motors where you guys running?
The M03 will still wheelspin even when you run a Lightly Tuned (28T) motor. To reduce wheelspin, MOVE weights to the front = move lighter components to the rear. Adding weights to the front also helps, but adding weights to a race car..... My M03R is a pig... 1495grams ready-to-run....upsetting....
Suggestion, since li-po not allowed for TAC anyway, why don't you try to cut the chassis hole larger and place the cells in the original slot. Thats the only sure shot way of solving your problem. Then get another chassis if you want to run TAC, please do
, mini class like got least number. 
CG too high is a inherent problem of any race car. (even F1 chassis designers will think their CG is too high if they are not winning the world championship... not kidding... race car engineers always think their car can be improved)
The heaviest component(the battery) sitting way above the roll center will never help a chassis like the M03. Softer shocks and high grip tires will only worsen the traction rolling issue, tested, proven. You can try harder damping and spring, it will help, but at the limit the car will traction roll even more violently. Harder springs allow lower ride height too, which also helps. Think 3mm is the min for mini.
Positive camber helps by reducing grip. But wears tire in a weird manner. Why not try lower grip ones all together and run negative camber? That way your tires can last way longer.
By the way. What motors where you guys running?
The M03 will still wheelspin even when you run a Lightly Tuned (28T) motor. To reduce wheelspin, MOVE weights to the front = move lighter components to the rear. Adding weights to the front also helps, but adding weights to a race car.....
My M03R is a pig... 1495grams ready-to-run....upsetting....Suggestion, since li-po not allowed for TAC anyway, why don't you try to cut the chassis hole larger and place the cells in the original slot. Thats the only sure shot way of solving your problem. Then get another chassis if you want to run TAC, please do
, mini class like got least number.
Last edited by Ray Lan; 01-31-2008 at 09:31 AM.
01-31-2008, 09:15 AM
#17
Will you guys be playing tomorrow? (friday night)
01-31-2008, 09:42 AM
#18
Tech Regular
i always enjoy looking at what Nishinaga does with his mini...
check out the links on his latest achievements....
its in japanese (put into babelfish and you can rougly figure out what he is trying to say), but still worth taking a look
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/taromaru32/e/7...fcfac964c9ddc7
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/taromaru32/e/a...56beb7329fe9c3
check out the links on his latest achievements....
its in japanese (put into babelfish and you can rougly figure out what he is trying to say), but still worth taking a look
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/taromaru32/e/7...fcfac964c9ddc7
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/taromaru32/e/a...56beb7329fe9c3
01-31-2008, 10:31 AM
#19
i always enjoy looking at what Nishinaga does with his mini...
check out the links on his latest achievements....
its in japanese (put into babelfish and you can rougly figure out what he is trying to say), but still worth taking a look
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/taromaru32/e/7...fcfac964c9ddc7
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/taromaru32/e/a...56beb7329fe9c3
check out the links on his latest achievements....
its in japanese (put into babelfish and you can rougly figure out what he is trying to say), but still worth taking a look
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/taromaru32/e/7...fcfac964c9ddc7
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/taromaru32/e/a...56beb7329fe9c3
now THATS extreme.
Unbelieveable... Respect.
01-31-2008, 07:44 PM
#20
Thank Ray for the tips.
I don't run TAC, but I can't file off the batts compartment too, that because my LiPo is super long, my bad of mistaken 172mm to 142mm of the font size from the net. So, I have to mount them on the top deck. Looks silly but funny, when someone tried to help me pick-up my rolled car and shouted, "bro, you're battery missing!" ... "yah, my car run off solar!". And, I have 2 of those, can't use it on any of my tourers. Then ordered 2 more LiPo, correct length, but thickness, cant fit my 415, it is 22mm whereas TRF have space upto 17mm. But still can use it on my Cyclone, MR4TC, TA05, F103, no big issue. So the long ones, got to stay with M03. I can run 2 nites or 1 weekend day session on just one 5000mah pack, with stops to cool the motor but I notice my ESC is much cooler on LiPo than NiMh, not sure if it is psychological, could be that I added a capacitor with matching NOS labels.
So, die-die I have to solve this traction roll issue, very paiseh already keep screaming "watch car after the straight", "car on ... dunno what turn" and not forgetting those super kind soul who help to give a knock to put my car back on it's wheel.
I don't run TAC, but I can't file off the batts compartment too, that because my LiPo is super long, my bad of mistaken 172mm to 142mm of the font size from the net. So, I have to mount them on the top deck. Looks silly but funny, when someone tried to help me pick-up my rolled car and shouted, "bro, you're battery missing!" ... "yah, my car run off solar!". And, I have 2 of those, can't use it on any of my tourers. Then ordered 2 more LiPo, correct length, but thickness, cant fit my 415, it is 22mm whereas TRF have space upto 17mm. But still can use it on my Cyclone, MR4TC, TA05, F103, no big issue. So the long ones, got to stay with M03. I can run 2 nites or 1 weekend day session on just one 5000mah pack, with stops to cool the motor but I notice my ESC is much cooler on LiPo than NiMh, not sure if it is psychological, could be that I added a capacitor with matching NOS labels.
So, die-die I have to solve this traction roll issue, very paiseh already keep screaming "watch car after the straight", "car on ... dunno what turn" and not forgetting those super kind soul who help to give a knock to put my car back on it's wheel.
01-31-2008, 07:48 PM
#21
... sorry duplicate
Last edited by etino; 02-01-2008 at 12:07 AM. Reason: ... sorry duplicate
01-31-2008, 10:33 PM
#22
... sorry duplicate (again?)
Last edited by etino; 02-01-2008 at 12:07 AM. Reason: ... sorry duplicate ... what is happening?!
01-31-2008, 10:48 PM
#23
Tech Regular
not sure which lipo you are running in your m03 but this the link below shows you how to slot in a long lipo. hope it helps
http://www.rc-mini.net/MiniWeb_Onlin...nd_How_To.html
(scroll all the way down the page)
http://www.rc-mini.net/MiniWeb_Onlin...nd_How_To.html
(scroll all the way down the page)
01-31-2008, 10:51 PM
#24
Tech Regular
not sure which lipo you are running in your m03 but this the link below shows you how to slot in a long lipo. hope it helps
http://www.rc-mini.net/MiniWeb_Onlin...nd_How_To.html
(scroll all the way down the page)
http://www.rc-mini.net/MiniWeb_Onlin...nd_How_To.html
(scroll all the way down the page)
01-31-2008, 10:52 PM
#25
Tech Regular
not sure which lipo you are running in your m03 but this the link below shows you how to slot in a long lipo. hope it helps
http://www.rc-mini.net/MiniWeb_Onlin...nd_How_To.html
(scroll all the way down the page)
http://www.rc-mini.net/MiniWeb_Onlin...nd_How_To.html
(scroll all the way down the page)
01-31-2008, 10:52 PM
#26
Tech Regular
not sure which lipo you are running in your m03 but this the link below shows you how to slot in a long lipo. hope it helps
http://www.rc-mini.net/MiniWeb_Onlin...nd_How_To.html
(scroll all the way down the page)
http://www.rc-mini.net/MiniWeb_Onlin...nd_How_To.html
(scroll all the way down the page)
01-31-2008, 11:03 PM
#27
Etino,
I've seen ur car in the pits and also on track.I also noticed that most of the time, it traction rolls at the end of the straight and sometimes in the infields, where there is a longer input on steering as compared to quick directional change..
I am no expert in setup, ( dats where most of the other folks here are), but i think its the position of the lipo dats giving its ill effect.
I also know dat there is no other place u could put it...so dis is wat i suggest.
Try to use the mini's longest wheelbase..239mm and its overall length which is 352mm. This could buy u more real estate for the lipo to sit on or at least, u could slant it inwards (one part of the lipo could rest where the servo is and the other end would be resting deeper into the chassis).
Dat way, u could also plant into the chassis, all ur other bits of electronics (esc and rx).Maybe dat way, u could lower the cg of the car, with the lighter stuff ,esc and rx on the back end of the car.
Then run superdroop, 90wt oil all around with 1 hole piston and blue or white springs. When u build ur shocks, juz put in 1 o ring in the shocks.Set ur most favourable ride height and dats it...superdroop.
If u have any, try to run S grip tamiya tyres or cut down sorex 28r.These tyres wont have any traction rolling issues.
I must give credit to all the other folks here who have contributed.These are infact their ideas dat i have somewat compressed. I would try it with a pinch of salt. Its not a sure proof way of resolving it, but it could be just another way.
Hope dis all helps
Evil Ernie
I've seen ur car in the pits and also on track.I also noticed that most of the time, it traction rolls at the end of the straight and sometimes in the infields, where there is a longer input on steering as compared to quick directional change..
I am no expert in setup, ( dats where most of the other folks here are), but i think its the position of the lipo dats giving its ill effect.
I also know dat there is no other place u could put it...so dis is wat i suggest.
Try to use the mini's longest wheelbase..239mm and its overall length which is 352mm. This could buy u more real estate for the lipo to sit on or at least, u could slant it inwards (one part of the lipo could rest where the servo is and the other end would be resting deeper into the chassis).
Dat way, u could also plant into the chassis, all ur other bits of electronics (esc and rx).Maybe dat way, u could lower the cg of the car, with the lighter stuff ,esc and rx on the back end of the car.
Then run superdroop, 90wt oil all around with 1 hole piston and blue or white springs. When u build ur shocks, juz put in 1 o ring in the shocks.Set ur most favourable ride height and dats it...superdroop.
If u have any, try to run S grip tamiya tyres or cut down sorex 28r.These tyres wont have any traction rolling issues.
I must give credit to all the other folks here who have contributed.These are infact their ideas dat i have somewat compressed. I would try it with a pinch of salt. Its not a sure proof way of resolving it, but it could be just another way.
Hope dis all helps
Evil Ernie
Thank Ray for the tips.
I don't run TAC, but I can't file off the batts compartment too, that because my LiPo is super long, my bad of mistaken 172mm to 142mm of the font size from the net. So, I have to mount them on the top deck. Looks silly but funny, when someone tried to help me pick-up my rolled car and shouted, "bro, you're battery missing!" ... "yah, my car run off solar!". And, I have 2 of those, can't use it on any of my tourers. Then ordered 2 more LiPo, correct length, but thickness, cant fit my 415, it is 22mm whereas TRF have space upto 17mm. But still can use it on my Cyclone, MR4TC, TA05, F103, no big issue. So the long ones, got to stay with M03. I can run 2 nites or 1 weekend day session on just one 5000mah pack, with stops to cool the motor but I notice my ESC is much cooler on LiPo than NiMh, not sure if it is psychological, could be that I added a capacitor with matching NOS labels.
So, die-die I have to solve this traction roll issue, very paiseh already keep screaming "watch car after the straight", "car on ... dunno what turn" and not forgetting those super kind soul who help to give a knock to put my car back on it's wheel.
I don't run TAC, but I can't file off the batts compartment too, that because my LiPo is super long, my bad of mistaken 172mm to 142mm of the font size from the net. So, I have to mount them on the top deck. Looks silly but funny, when someone tried to help me pick-up my rolled car and shouted, "bro, you're battery missing!" ... "yah, my car run off solar!". And, I have 2 of those, can't use it on any of my tourers. Then ordered 2 more LiPo, correct length, but thickness, cant fit my 415, it is 22mm whereas TRF have space upto 17mm. But still can use it on my Cyclone, MR4TC, TA05, F103, no big issue. So the long ones, got to stay with M03. I can run 2 nites or 1 weekend day session on just one 5000mah pack, with stops to cool the motor but I notice my ESC is much cooler on LiPo than NiMh, not sure if it is psychological, could be that I added a capacitor with matching NOS labels.
So, die-die I have to solve this traction roll issue, very paiseh already keep screaming "watch car after the straight", "car on ... dunno what turn" and not forgetting those super kind soul who help to give a knock to put my car back on it's wheel.
02-01-2008, 12:14 AM
#28
not sure which lipo you are running in your m03 but this the link below shows you how to slot in a long lipo. hope it helps
http://www.rc-mini.net/MiniWeb_Onlin...nd_How_To.html
(scroll all the way down the page)
http://www.rc-mini.net/MiniWeb_Onlin...nd_How_To.html
(scroll all the way down the page)
02-01-2008, 12:31 AM
#29
Thanks Ernie,
You're right, it's the placement of the LiPo. If I use stick pack, I have zero roll, apart from using the Team Spice 36r tires.
Nonetheless, I really enjoy tweaking the car to make sure that I overcome the traction roll issue with the high CG. At the sametime, protecting my LiPo investment (I bought 4 packs $$$$, 2 x long packs, 2 x thick pack = 4 x gundu). Each time, I am closer to find the sweet spot. First was to put ballast on the rear compartment, I put 40g and it somewhat improved alot. Next, from Alex tips, maybe I put positive camber on the front. Maybe, more ballast, up to 60g. Heavy surely, but me not racing so as long as speed is reasonable I'm OK. Anyway, on lower traction surface like basketball court or car park, the car is near perfect, zero roll. So, I know that I'm close to getting something. Once I get it, I'll dig out my Cyclone and see if I can match Gareth's. That's what hobby is all about ... spending time and money to perfect things, and move to other trouble.
If I expend the wheebase to the max, then it is not a mini, but a maxi.
You're right, it's the placement of the LiPo. If I use stick pack, I have zero roll, apart from using the Team Spice 36r tires.
Nonetheless, I really enjoy tweaking the car to make sure that I overcome the traction roll issue with the high CG. At the sametime, protecting my LiPo investment (I bought 4 packs $$$$, 2 x long packs, 2 x thick pack = 4 x gundu). Each time, I am closer to find the sweet spot. First was to put ballast on the rear compartment, I put 40g and it somewhat improved alot. Next, from Alex tips, maybe I put positive camber on the front. Maybe, more ballast, up to 60g. Heavy surely, but me not racing so as long as speed is reasonable I'm OK. Anyway, on lower traction surface like basketball court or car park, the car is near perfect, zero roll. So, I know that I'm close to getting something. Once I get it, I'll dig out my Cyclone and see if I can match Gareth's. That's what hobby is all about ... spending time and money to perfect things, and move to other trouble.
If I expend the wheebase to the max, then it is not a mini, but a maxi.
02-29-2008, 11:32 AM
#30
hiya folks,
thanks for bringing on the mini fun!
Mac, Emran, Woo, Mark, Wilfred, Zakkie, Kenny and I, it was incredible!
Gary also popped by to impress us with his wickedly fast cyclone!
Thanks all, haven't had so much fun in quite a bit.
We discussed traction roll and i've made camber links with tamiya 5mm rod ends (cut down) to create positive camber. lowers the amount of traction roll.
Also, i had a bout of them "flaming motors" which thankfully resolved itself.
i was upset for a little while thinking my motor was ready to kick the bucket.
this is my setup, in case anyone wants to know:
=tires, team powers 36r all round with 55m inserts
=shocks are tamiya TRF with 1 hole pistons (you need to fill up one hole of a 2 hole piston) and 1000 cps oil all round and 6 mm spacer under the shock piston for droop) with dark blue (hard) springs
=motor was BK's cheating black motor with 20t pinion.
=ride height is 4mm front, 6mm rear.
=bodyshell is tamiya swift WITH spoiler
=3 degree positive camber front, 1 degree positive camber rear
=1 degree toe out front, standard 2 degree rear
till next time! have fun all! and happy new year!
-alexander
thanks for bringing on the mini fun!
Mac, Emran, Woo, Mark, Wilfred, Zakkie, Kenny and I, it was incredible!
Gary also popped by to impress us with his wickedly fast cyclone!
Thanks all, haven't had so much fun in quite a bit.
We discussed traction roll and i've made camber links with tamiya 5mm rod ends (cut down) to create positive camber. lowers the amount of traction roll.
Also, i had a bout of them "flaming motors" which thankfully resolved itself.
i was upset for a little while thinking my motor was ready to kick the bucket.
this is my setup, in case anyone wants to know:
=tires, team powers 36r all round with 55m inserts
=shocks are tamiya TRF with 1 hole pistons (you need to fill up one hole of a 2 hole piston) and 1000 cps oil all round and 6 mm spacer under the shock piston for droop) with dark blue (hard) springs
=motor was BK's cheating black motor with 20t pinion.
=ride height is 4mm front, 6mm rear.
=bodyshell is tamiya swift WITH spoiler
=3 degree positive camber front, 1 degree positive camber rear
=1 degree toe out front, standard 2 degree rear
till next time! have fun all! and happy new year!
-alexander
I tried running Team Powers 40r today. The car was practically not very driveable, have to really enter the turns slow and smooth if not sure flip. Did you manage to find a good setup with these tires?