>>>BioDiesel fueled Nitro Engines<<<<
06-12-2006, 05:33 PM
#1
>>>BioDiesel fueled Nitro Engines<<<<
Does anyone out there think that it might be possible to have an 8th scale (or similar nitro platform) equipped with a biodiesel engine as powerplant? The thought of a nearly cost-free fuel supply MUST appeal to some, not to mention being more environmentally conscious than what we have out there.
(and do NOT reply to this thread if you drive a HUMMER or similar oversized, fuel INEFFICIENT full size vehicle.)
(and do NOT reply to this thread if you drive a HUMMER or similar oversized, fuel INEFFICIENT full size vehicle.)
06-12-2006, 05:53 PM
#2
You have to keep in mind that it's the compression that fires a diesel engine and that compression needs to be quite high. It would be real hard on the starter wheel of even the strongest starter box.
Many years ago (would you believe over forty) there were model airplane engines that were diesel in the forties and fifties but those were control line planes with fixed throttles. You had a screw in the head where today's engines have the glow plug to adjust the compression to start the engine.
Many years ago (would you believe over forty) there were model airplane engines that were diesel in the forties and fifties but those were control line planes with fixed throttles. You had a screw in the head where today's engines have the glow plug to adjust the compression to start the engine.
06-12-2006, 06:04 PM
#3
O boy another environmentalist...
It would seem the EPA is trying to eliminate two stroke dirtbikes and what they see as inefficient burning motors such as you share the same opinion it would seem. I really believe first of all this would not be possible because of the size of the motors. Trying to run that type of fuel in an engine this small I wouldn't believe it to work. Not to mention when you do run bio diesel, you typically run it because your obsessed with all this fuel emission conflict...not for performance. What I'm trying to say is that your car would probably run like pure crap, and it would require virtually impossible glow plug assorting and tuning that wouldn't be available for the general public to do.
I believe that electric cars are the main reason something like this will never exist in nitro cars. I don't drive a hummer, but I sure do own a two stroke dirt bike. This is also a dirtbike issue, as epa is trying to eliminate two stroke dirtbikes, and bring in four strokes. This is basically the same comparison between nitro/electric and two stroke/four stroke dirtbikes actually. If electric cars exist, and they are 100% emission certified, causing no harm at all, the rc business would never have a need for bio diesel, so what I'm saying is that if you tried to do it yourself, it's basically impossible to figure everything like that all on your own. Not to mention your car would only put around compared to fly like it used to on nitro.
In my opinion, your "(and do NOT reply to this thread if you drive a HUMMER or similar oversized, fuel INEFFICIENT full size vehicle.)" statement is offensive to me. I have no vehicle of that sort, but still if that's the case, hands down nitro cars aren't for you if you feel this way.
Because of the 2 stroke dilemma, a study was done on diesel cars and two stroke engines(next thing to nitro cars) about fuel efficiency. A scientific study was taken place. It goes exactly like this.
A banshee quad is a 350cc twin cylinder two stroke. Exactly one hundred banshees running for a day will create a significantly less amount of pollution than a diesel city bus does in one day.
In conclusion to the snobby remark, those hummers are far better than a basic city bus, which are run so much more anyway...
Bio diesel would never work properly in a nitro car no matter what, and your only option for fuel efficiency is just electric. I infact find you to be offending people on this forum with remarks like that. Is that really necessary?
It would seem the EPA is trying to eliminate two stroke dirtbikes and what they see as inefficient burning motors such as you share the same opinion it would seem. I really believe first of all this would not be possible because of the size of the motors. Trying to run that type of fuel in an engine this small I wouldn't believe it to work. Not to mention when you do run bio diesel, you typically run it because your obsessed with all this fuel emission conflict...not for performance. What I'm trying to say is that your car would probably run like pure crap, and it would require virtually impossible glow plug assorting and tuning that wouldn't be available for the general public to do.
I believe that electric cars are the main reason something like this will never exist in nitro cars. I don't drive a hummer, but I sure do own a two stroke dirt bike. This is also a dirtbike issue, as epa is trying to eliminate two stroke dirtbikes, and bring in four strokes. This is basically the same comparison between nitro/electric and two stroke/four stroke dirtbikes actually. If electric cars exist, and they are 100% emission certified, causing no harm at all, the rc business would never have a need for bio diesel, so what I'm saying is that if you tried to do it yourself, it's basically impossible to figure everything like that all on your own. Not to mention your car would only put around compared to fly like it used to on nitro.
In my opinion, your "(and do NOT reply to this thread if you drive a HUMMER or similar oversized, fuel INEFFICIENT full size vehicle.)" statement is offensive to me. I have no vehicle of that sort, but still if that's the case, hands down nitro cars aren't for you if you feel this way.
Because of the 2 stroke dilemma, a study was done on diesel cars and two stroke engines(next thing to nitro cars) about fuel efficiency. A scientific study was taken place. It goes exactly like this.
A banshee quad is a 350cc twin cylinder two stroke. Exactly one hundred banshees running for a day will create a significantly less amount of pollution than a diesel city bus does in one day.
In conclusion to the snobby remark, those hummers are far better than a basic city bus, which are run so much more anyway...
Bio diesel would never work properly in a nitro car no matter what, and your only option for fuel efficiency is just electric. I infact find you to be offending people on this forum with remarks like that. Is that really necessary?
06-12-2006, 06:48 PM
#5
Tech Regular
iTrader: (3)
on topic.....
http://www.davisdieseldevelopment.com/
Off topic.....As for inefficiency......I have a 3/4 ton diesel truck that gets 22+ mpg in town and on the highway, as long as I keep it under 70 mph.......try that in your gigantic gasoline powered SUV..... nyah.....
http://www.davisdieseldevelopment.com/
Off topic.....As for inefficiency......I have a 3/4 ton diesel truck that gets 22+ mpg in town and on the highway, as long as I keep it under 70 mph.......try that in your gigantic gasoline powered SUV..... nyah.....
06-12-2006, 07:16 PM
#6
So you guys are offended huh?
Well, i drive a 50 mile to the gallon of gasoline Honda civic, and SUV's and other gas hogs and air polluters offend me, so just shut your trap, don't believe everything you read or hear and maybe you'll learn something.
go here: http://www.grinningplanet.com/2005/0...ne-article.htm
then go here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImGaraPrEo8
See, and you thought you were so smart, Hydrogen burns cleaner than both Gasoline or diesel, there is an even more abundant supply, its cheaper, and hydrogen is the most explosive element known to man. What better way to power high performance or fuel effcient, clean burning cars.
now keep your ignorant mouths shut.
Well, i drive a 50 mile to the gallon of gasoline Honda civic, and SUV's and other gas hogs and air polluters offend me, so just shut your trap, don't believe everything you read or hear and maybe you'll learn something.
go here: http://www.grinningplanet.com/2005/0...ne-article.htm
then go here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImGaraPrEo8
See, and you thought you were so smart, Hydrogen burns cleaner than both Gasoline or diesel, there is an even more abundant supply, its cheaper, and hydrogen is the most explosive element known to man. What better way to power high performance or fuel effcient, clean burning cars.
now keep your ignorant mouths shut.
06-12-2006, 07:24 PM
#7
Originally Posted by RC Guru
all i have to say is Diesel cars, trucks, and watever runs on diesel stinks and pollutes..i dont even drive a real car since i am only 15. my mom drives a SUV, but doesnt drive much..probably a mere 2 miles a day or so just to commute to work and back..and somtimes going to buy stuff..the only reason we have a suv is to carry stuff and have something that can carry alot of luggage since my mom doesnt like wagons. the comment part about not posting if u run a gigantic hummer that runs alot of gas really offends me too.. your better worrying about those buses and cars that blow out black smoke or factories/plants that pollute tons of air. Worry about those first....nitro cars are only 20% gas fuel, so what are you worried about?
I think that a bio diesel rc car would be cool if it would work.
06-12-2006, 07:26 PM
#8
Originally Posted by AE guy
O boy another environmentalist...
It would seem the EPA is trying to eliminate two stroke dirtbikes and what they see as inefficient burning motors such as you share the same opinion it would seem. I really believe first of all this would not be possible because of the size of the motors. Trying to run that type of fuel in an engine this small I wouldn't believe it to work. Not to mention when you do run bio diesel, you typically run it because your obsessed with all this fuel emission conflict...not for performance. What I'm trying to say is that your car would probably run like pure crap, and it would require virtually impossible glow plug assorting and tuning that wouldn't be available for the general public to do.
In my opinion, your "(and do NOT reply to this thread if you drive a HUMMER or similar oversized, fuel INEFFICIENT full size vehicle.)" statement is offensive to me. I have no vehicle of that sort, but still if that's the case, hands down nitro cars aren't for you if you feel this way.
Because of the 2 stroke dilemma, a study was done on diesel cars and two stroke engines(next thing to nitro cars) about fuel efficiency. A scientific study was taken place. It goes exactly like this.
A banshee quad is a 350cc twin cylinder two stroke. Exactly one hundred banshees running for a day will create a significantly less amount of pollution than a diesel city bus does in one day.
In conclusion to the snobby remark, those hummers are far better than a basic city bus, which are run so much more anyway...
Bio diesel would never work properly in a nitro car no matter what, and your only option for fuel efficiency is just electric. I infact find you to be offending people on this forum with remarks like that. Is that really necessary?
It would seem the EPA is trying to eliminate two stroke dirtbikes and what they see as inefficient burning motors such as you share the same opinion it would seem. I really believe first of all this would not be possible because of the size of the motors. Trying to run that type of fuel in an engine this small I wouldn't believe it to work. Not to mention when you do run bio diesel, you typically run it because your obsessed with all this fuel emission conflict...not for performance. What I'm trying to say is that your car would probably run like pure crap, and it would require virtually impossible glow plug assorting and tuning that wouldn't be available for the general public to do.
In my opinion, your "(and do NOT reply to this thread if you drive a HUMMER or similar oversized, fuel INEFFICIENT full size vehicle.)" statement is offensive to me. I have no vehicle of that sort, but still if that's the case, hands down nitro cars aren't for you if you feel this way.
Because of the 2 stroke dilemma, a study was done on diesel cars and two stroke engines(next thing to nitro cars) about fuel efficiency. A scientific study was taken place. It goes exactly like this.
A banshee quad is a 350cc twin cylinder two stroke. Exactly one hundred banshees running for a day will create a significantly less amount of pollution than a diesel city bus does in one day.
In conclusion to the snobby remark, those hummers are far better than a basic city bus, which are run so much more anyway...
Bio diesel would never work properly in a nitro car no matter what, and your only option for fuel efficiency is just electric. I infact find you to be offending people on this forum with remarks like that. Is that really necessary?
And to the people bagging on public transportation: ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?
06-12-2006, 07:34 PM
#9
Damn Yankees..... I drive a honda civic 
....... I wouldn't be cought dead in on of those coffens........
For anyone who is ignorant enough to even suggest that nitro fuels exhaust is anywhere near contaminating the earth... nitromethane is what nitro fuel is made of.... methane is the primary ingredient.... and methane is alcohol based, and thus burns way more efficiently, with less pollutants.....
BTW: I drive an explorer, I get 22 mpg, I drive 25 miles to work ever day (one way) and I can park on top of your Honda Civic.....
....... I wouldn't be cought dead in on of those coffens........For anyone who is ignorant enough to even suggest that nitro fuels exhaust is anywhere near contaminating the earth... nitromethane is what nitro fuel is made of.... methane is the primary ingredient.... and methane is alcohol based, and thus burns way more efficiently, with less pollutants.....
BTW: I drive an explorer, I get 22 mpg, I drive 25 miles to work ever day (one way) and I can park on top of your Honda Civic.....
06-12-2006, 07:35 PM
#10
Enough said!!
06-12-2006, 07:48 PM
#11
It's literally AMAZING how quickly you guys can destroy a decent topic for conversation.
06-12-2006, 08:03 PM
#12
just like the people that use it in there real cars and trucks it makes the motor very weak and eats every plastic and rubber part in the fuel system. Now thats saving money
06-12-2006, 08:18 PM
#13
The best part about bio-diesel is if you get fries with that order of grease.
Seriously, one of you did hit the nail on the head which is that the model engines are already burning an alcohol based fuel. If it wasn't for the oil smoke coming out of the exhaust no one would notice it as polluting.
Seriously, one of you did hit the nail on the head which is that the model engines are already burning an alcohol based fuel. If it wasn't for the oil smoke coming out of the exhaust no one would notice it as polluting.
06-12-2006, 08:20 PM
#14
Tech Regular
I for one have tried a converted motor that ran on deisiel fuel about 10 years ago. The idea was to get better fuel milage and may be all around better performance. It was nearly impossible to turn over and only successfull in starting it once for a short time. It had also burned up the starter box from the pinch or may be the compresion being to high, so I gave up on it all together. Bad experience so far, plus it would not even compare to NITROMETHANE even at 10%. The fuel we all run contains METHENOL, makes up at least 80% of our fuel. METHENOL is an alternative in gasoline that all major car manufactures are using . So we are way a head of the game. EPA would of said something about our fuel by now. I have not heard any thing yet?
06-12-2006, 08:44 PM
#15
(All opinions below are mine. If you don't like them, then do something really proactive: stop reading them. Forum flame wars are retarded. )
Biodiesel is a good idea. The results of it mixed with regular fuels are impressive to say the least. The reduction in sulphur species and unburned/aromatic hydrocarbons emissions is great, but the level of sustainability required appears to pose problems.
Many people are still of the mind-set that if it isn't broke, there ain't need to be fixing it. Not to mention, most often, people are reluctant to change anyway.
The fact that people are unwilling to change (and often to learn) has resulted here in NSW that the addition of ethanol to unleaded fuels was short lived due to public outrage. The addition of ethanol to the fuel mix has also been shown to reduce emissions, and this so called "loss of performance" people believe they get is bollucks.
Thus the problem with biodiesel is two-fold: The People (ie. general public) are going to resist its implementation simply due to ignorance whilst i still haven't found any data on the sustainability of this fuel and pricing when compared with standard diesel, suggesting that it may not be all that cost-effective.
To the RC side of things: I really cannot see this having any place in the RC world, or at least not until the production of Nitromethane engines are cut purely for the emission reason simply due to the chemical side of things.
Nitromethane is typically mixed with methanol when in your fuel. Both methanol and nitromethane are reasonably volatile. The Oils that we're talking about when using biodiesel aren't volatile.
Fuels (typically) don't burn as a liquid. They burn as a vapour. Inorder to vapourise the biodiesel, an entire overhaul of the nitroengine would most likely be required. This R&D would then require years of work and money, and any company that would be willing to pour enough money into it to sustain the research probably would lose its footing in staying up to date with other companies producing and refining only nitro engines.
Sorry, but from here i just don't see it happenning for a long time yet.
Cheers
BTW: A few corrections;
Hydrogen is NOT the most explosive element known to man. Ever heard of elemental Sodium? Calcium? Ever use any? FAR more explosive...
Most anything can be made explosive too. Did you know: Aluminium chips are explosive when thrown at water?
Hydrogen may be the most abundant element on the planet, however most of that is not the easiest thing to simply snatch out of the air and bottle and using electricity to literally rip water apart for use is not the most efficient way of getting either product whilst Hydrogen Fuel Cells are years away from being efficient enough to run a car effectively (cost and efficiency) in the way we know today.... although that HHO technology is REALLY cool. Time to see if there're any papers out there about that...
)Biodiesel is a good idea. The results of it mixed with regular fuels are impressive to say the least. The reduction in sulphur species and unburned/aromatic hydrocarbons emissions is great, but the level of sustainability required appears to pose problems.
Many people are still of the mind-set that if it isn't broke, there ain't need to be fixing it. Not to mention, most often, people are reluctant to change anyway.
The fact that people are unwilling to change (and often to learn) has resulted here in NSW that the addition of ethanol to unleaded fuels was short lived due to public outrage. The addition of ethanol to the fuel mix has also been shown to reduce emissions, and this so called "loss of performance" people believe they get is bollucks.
Thus the problem with biodiesel is two-fold: The People (ie. general public) are going to resist its implementation simply due to ignorance whilst i still haven't found any data on the sustainability of this fuel and pricing when compared with standard diesel, suggesting that it may not be all that cost-effective.
To the RC side of things: I really cannot see this having any place in the RC world, or at least not until the production of Nitromethane engines are cut purely for the emission reason simply due to the chemical side of things.
Nitromethane is typically mixed with methanol when in your fuel. Both methanol and nitromethane are reasonably volatile. The Oils that we're talking about when using biodiesel aren't volatile.
Fuels (typically) don't burn as a liquid. They burn as a vapour. Inorder to vapourise the biodiesel, an entire overhaul of the nitroengine would most likely be required. This R&D would then require years of work and money, and any company that would be willing to pour enough money into it to sustain the research probably would lose its footing in staying up to date with other companies producing and refining only nitro engines.
Sorry, but from here i just don't see it happenning for a long time yet.
Cheers
BTW: A few corrections;
Hydrogen is NOT the most explosive element known to man. Ever heard of elemental Sodium? Calcium? Ever use any? FAR more explosive...
Most anything can be made explosive too. Did you know: Aluminium chips are explosive when thrown at water?
Hydrogen may be the most abundant element on the planet, however most of that is not the easiest thing to simply snatch out of the air and bottle and using electricity to literally rip water apart for use is not the most efficient way of getting either product whilst Hydrogen Fuel Cells are years away from being efficient enough to run a car effectively (cost and efficiency) in the way we know today.... although that HHO technology is REALLY cool. Time to see if there're any papers out there about that...