new stock motor binary
11-29-2003, 10:09 AM
#16
Originally posted by RC Paperboy
Stock racing is supposed to be cheap and slow for the beginner.
Stock racing is supposed to be cheap and slow for the beginner.
11-29-2003, 11:04 AM
#18
I am still out in terms of the Quad mag vs 2 mag motors. I have not liked the KR or the PT and a few of the locals here that have the Epic mods are not Blown away by the performance. The hottest mod at our track is the new Orion/Peak V2 mods. Just as fast as any mod out and are not a one run mod. I like Grizz will keep my Monster Stocks and not get all wrapped up in the Quad Mag hype.
Jeff
Jeff
11-29-2003, 11:17 AM
#19
I have heard that they are pretty fast motors. Great RPM. Hats off to Trinity once again, for raising the bar!!
Don't worry, soon enough ROAR will approve them!!
Don't worry, soon enough ROAR will approve them!!
11-29-2003, 12:41 PM
#20
Like I said...the guys I was talking to in Cleveland didn't seem to be blown away...not by a long shot...
As far as being available to the general public, The motors are now available to the general public, and my understanding is that ROAR approval is currently pending...
The Dyno numbers don't seem to be that impressive on the Top 1% motors that they were selling at the Cleveland LHS..
I'm sure you'll hear more about this as the racers come home and tell you what they think of these motors after their first-hand experiences
As far as all the theories go as to how these motors will act...it's all fine and dandy..but it's quite often difficult to put theories into practice...
The moral of the story is...don't get your hopes up too high..don't believe the hype...I know a bunch of the guys that have NO urge whatsoever to hang onto these motors when they're done with them at the champs...
As far as being available to the general public, The motors are now available to the general public, and my understanding is that ROAR approval is currently pending...
The Dyno numbers don't seem to be that impressive on the Top 1% motors that they were selling at the Cleveland LHS..
I'm sure you'll hear more about this as the racers come home and tell you what they think of these motors after their first-hand experiences
As far as all the theories go as to how these motors will act...it's all fine and dandy..but it's quite often difficult to put theories into practice...
The moral of the story is...don't get your hopes up too high..don't believe the hype...I know a bunch of the guys that have NO urge whatsoever to hang onto these motors when they're done with them at the champs...
11-29-2003, 04:08 PM
#21
Tech Adept
I haven't gotten my hands on one of these new outlaw 'stock' motors yet. I have seen one picture, and it confused me a bit. I thought these motors were going to have four magnets, where two of the magnets were smaller then the other, and this was suposed to effectively increase the timing of the motor. The photo I saw looked like the magnets were split right down the middle just like the Binary Mod cans have...
My testing with quad magnet motors so far, doesn't show much of any differance when compared to the same arm/endbell in a simmilar can with only two magnets. My testing to date has been limited to 19 turn motors.
To me, the only thing interesting about the new Trinity outlaw stock thingy, was that it was suposedly going ot have a variation in the location of the split in the magnets, and now I'm not even sure that is true.
I guess I'll wind up buying one, just to play with...
Not sure we need futher advancements in brushed stock motors... I think ROAR should leave the stock rules as they are...
My testing with quad magnet motors so far, doesn't show much of any differance when compared to the same arm/endbell in a simmilar can with only two magnets. My testing to date has been limited to 19 turn motors.
To me, the only thing interesting about the new Trinity outlaw stock thingy, was that it was suposedly going ot have a variation in the location of the split in the magnets, and now I'm not even sure that is true.
I guess I'll wind up buying one, just to play with...
Not sure we need futher advancements in brushed stock motors... I think ROAR should leave the stock rules as they are...
11-29-2003, 04:59 PM
#22
Tech Adept
I got to looking closer at the photo...
http://www.nashrcracer.com/cleveland...rstshots37.htm
I guess the magnets are NOT cut symetrical as I first thought that the photo showed...
If cutting the magnets like that does indeed effectively increase the timing, then this type of thing may very well have big implications in fixed timing classes...
Not sure what ROAR is likely to do with 'stock' class. However it's already been announced that ROAR's 19 turn Oval motors will allow more then two magnets. That class has has a 36 degree timing limit, if cutting the magnets slightly offset does behave as if there is increased timing, then it will likley effect at least this 19 turn oval class very quickly...
Of course to one degree or another, ROAR rules are subject to change.
http://www.nashrcracer.com/cleveland...rstshots37.htm
I guess the magnets are NOT cut symetrical as I first thought that the photo showed...
If cutting the magnets like that does indeed effectively increase the timing, then this type of thing may very well have big implications in fixed timing classes...
Not sure what ROAR is likely to do with 'stock' class. However it's already been announced that ROAR's 19 turn Oval motors will allow more then two magnets. That class has has a 36 degree timing limit, if cutting the magnets slightly offset does behave as if there is increased timing, then it will likley effect at least this 19 turn oval class very quickly...
Of course to one degree or another, ROAR rules are subject to change.
11-29-2003, 07:20 PM
#23
does it come with that trick flatwire arm also? 
What a joke!
What a joke!
11-29-2003, 07:54 PM
#24
Tech Adept
After this year's Snowbirds a lot more racers will be using this motors. It'll be the handout there!
ROAR rules or not this motor is coming. If we buy it and it becomes competitive the rules will be changed to accomodate the motor.
All progress comes with with a price. Without innivation there is no progress!
Race on!
ROAR rules or not this motor is coming. If we buy it and it becomes competitive the rules will be changed to accomodate the motor.
All progress comes with with a price. Without innivation there is no progress!
Race on!
11-29-2003, 08:03 PM
#25
ok....maybe you're all just ignoring my posts....but....
this technology may be developing...but it ain't ready yet...
Ask the racers running stock for candid opinions on what they think of this new 'super-motor' forget the theory and speculation..forget the marketing hype..talk to the racers and see what they think since they're the ones that have actually used it
this technology may be developing...but it ain't ready yet...
Ask the racers running stock for candid opinions on what they think of this new 'super-motor' forget the theory and speculation..forget the marketing hype..talk to the racers and see what they think since they're the ones that have actually used it
11-29-2003, 08:22 PM
#27
LOL....That's exactly what EVERYONE I talked to at the race was telling me as well...
but....people see the ads in Car action that say 4 magnets are better than 2 and that the motor is BANNED for being too fast....
This will be an interesting thread once we see some first-hand accounts from the people trying to squeeze power out of it..
Keep in mind..you have top-level motor tuners working on these and working with multiple armatures since Trinity brought a ton of Binary2's to sell at their Hobby shop booth...so you know that the hot ones were grabbed quickly to try and find a magic combination...and STILL they say that the motor is nothing special...
I don't mean to be a party-pooper..but control your enthusiasm...not every innovation works first time out....
but....people see the ads in Car action that say 4 magnets are better than 2 and that the motor is BANNED for being too fast....
This will be an interesting thread once we see some first-hand accounts from the people trying to squeeze power out of it..
Keep in mind..you have top-level motor tuners working on these and working with multiple armatures since Trinity brought a ton of Binary2's to sell at their Hobby shop booth...so you know that the hot ones were grabbed quickly to try and find a magic combination...and STILL they say that the motor is nothing special...
I don't mean to be a party-pooper..but control your enthusiasm...not every innovation works first time out....
11-29-2003, 09:58 PM
#28
Tech Regular
My C2 arm makes more power in a Kr can at 24 degrees than it does in a C2 can. Ive never used a T 4-magnet setup but according to most of the comments Ive heard its no good.
But like I said, my experience with teh Kr can is that it was a faster motor than the C2 can.
But like I said, my experience with teh Kr can is that it was a faster motor than the C2 can.
12-01-2003, 09:15 AM
#29
Tech Adept
From what I heard the new motor's put out simmilar power to a Monster, but had way more RPM and needed to be geared like 4 teeth lower then you'd run with a Monster motor... Now that is indeed alot more RPM...
Comparing a C2 arm, in a KR can, is interesting if you work for Trinity and want to figure out how to make a faster motor...
However I think comparing a Reedy arm in a Reedy can is more of a test of what the 2 magnets vs. 4 will do. I've tried it, and see very little differance... This was using a hand wound 19 turn Ti arm, in a Ti can, vs. the same arm and Endbell in a KR can. The only differance was the can... I saw no significant differance on the dyno. If I gave you both sets of dyno data, you wouldn't be able to tell if I changed anything at all... it looks just like if I had run two seperate dyno runs using the exact same motor.
Comparing a C2 arm, in a KR can, is interesting if you work for Trinity and want to figure out how to make a faster motor...
However I think comparing a Reedy arm in a Reedy can is more of a test of what the 2 magnets vs. 4 will do. I've tried it, and see very little differance... This was using a hand wound 19 turn Ti arm, in a Ti can, vs. the same arm and Endbell in a KR can. The only differance was the can... I saw no significant differance on the dyno. If I gave you both sets of dyno data, you wouldn't be able to tell if I changed anything at all... it looks just like if I had run two seperate dyno runs using the exact same motor.
12-01-2003, 09:54 AM
#30
What about the Race Prep outlaw motor:
OUTLAW 27. Based on the Powerzone Stock Motor, the Outlaw 27 Stock Racing Motor is Handwound with 27 turns of larger wire. 36 degrees advanced timing. Short R-40 Armature with Cooling Channels and Weighted Balance Method, Diamond Trued Commutator, 5.4v Wet Magnets, "H" Cut "R" Compound Brushes
Anyone try one of these?
OUTLAW 27. Based on the Powerzone Stock Motor, the Outlaw 27 Stock Racing Motor is Handwound with 27 turns of larger wire. 36 degrees advanced timing. Short R-40 Armature with Cooling Channels and Weighted Balance Method, Diamond Trued Commutator, 5.4v Wet Magnets, "H" Cut "R" Compound Brushes
Anyone try one of these?