The future of stock brushless motors?
#31
Tech Elite
iTrader: (30)
Rick, agreed on the $90 cost point but apparently the industry has set that baseline cost for us, the racers to have a maintainence free motor. With that said, I'll gladly pay $5 additional dollars for a proven faster version. That doesn't mean I don't think the cost is high, but for not having to true up a comm, keep numerous brush flavors on-hand, numerous springs, a comm lathe, comm drops, and run it on a Fantom dyno, oh yeah, and of course a good base motor to start with from guys like EA, the new cost of $90 is worth it to me.
The days of cheaper stock motors vs more expensive mod motors are long gone. I believe that several of these companies are adding additional touch labor into the assembly of the motors and therefore increasing cost. I also believe that the demand for mod has fallen off quite a bit from where it used to be back when the pricing scenario was reversed. In the state of FL, there is no organized mod on-road racing in the state.
Again, just my opinion, not here to argue.
The days of cheaper stock motors vs more expensive mod motors are long gone. I believe that several of these companies are adding additional touch labor into the assembly of the motors and therefore increasing cost. I also believe that the demand for mod has fallen off quite a bit from where it used to be back when the pricing scenario was reversed. In the state of FL, there is no organized mod on-road racing in the state.
Again, just my opinion, not here to argue.
#32
R/C Tech Elite Member
iTrader: (315)
For example, I dyno'd 4 different (new) Trackstar V2 21.5 motors which are Roar legal.
Which one would you prefer?
Now the counter arguement is "We would use a more reputable brand" (Ok, but why do you think Trinity charge a bucket load more for a top 5% Motor? Because there is variation, they've turned it into a marketing opportunity, good on them, but not all motors will be equal)
Or "We would set the timing on a motor analyser so each motor has the same KV" (That's fine but they are unloaded, I can set two 21.5 motors to give the same unloaded kv as well, but they will behave differently on the track if one is producing more power than the other, it will run cooler and can be geared harder and have less fade)
You want to run control motors? Then someone needs to take the time to dyno (not run on a $150 analyser) them to make sure they all sit within 2-3% of each other in terms of torque, efficiency etc at a set voltage and at the same timing and kv values. It's labour intensive, and many people (including those setting these rules) lack the technical knowledge to do this.
#33
Tech Master
iTrader: (5)
we have just started using these motors for our interclub series
HOBBYWING XRS MOTOR JUSTOCK G2 - 13.5 (XY309950) - RC Hobby Land
racers can either hire them or buy one outright, they are fixed timing
First round has just been run and was lots of really close fun racing, there were no real surprises with the results, and times were not far off we were doing with our regular motors.
It can be done.
keep in mind a quick motor in Aus can cost up to $190 so a $70 control motor is a good option.
There are those against it, some I get the feeling they wont be quick enough with a level playing field but are usually not at the pointy end anyway, but that's my opinion
HOBBYWING XRS MOTOR JUSTOCK G2 - 13.5 (XY309950) - RC Hobby Land
racers can either hire them or buy one outright, they are fixed timing
First round has just been run and was lots of really close fun racing, there were no real surprises with the results, and times were not far off we were doing with our regular motors.
It can be done.
keep in mind a quick motor in Aus can cost up to $190 so a $70 control motor is a good option.
There are those against it, some I get the feeling they wont be quick enough with a level playing field but are usually not at the pointy end anyway, but that's my opinion
#34
R/C Tech Elite Member
iTrader: (315)
we have just started using these motors for our interclub series
HOBBYWING XRS MOTOR JUSTOCK G2 - 13.5 (XY309950) - RC Hobby Land
racers can either hire them or buy one outright, they are fixed timing
First round has just been run and was lots of really close fun racing, there were no real surprises with the results, and times were not far off we were doing with our regular motors.
It can be done.
keep in mind a quick motor in Aus can cost up to $190 so a $70 control motor is a good option.
There are those against it, some I get the feeling they wont be quick enough with a level playing field but are usually not at the pointy end anyway, but that's my opinion
HOBBYWING XRS MOTOR JUSTOCK G2 - 13.5 (XY309950) - RC Hobby Land
racers can either hire them or buy one outright, they are fixed timing
First round has just been run and was lots of really close fun racing, there were no real surprises with the results, and times were not far off we were doing with our regular motors.
It can be done.
keep in mind a quick motor in Aus can cost up to $190 so a $70 control motor is a good option.
There are those against it, some I get the feeling they wont be quick enough with a level playing field but are usually not at the pointy end anyway, but that's my opinion
Plus side, I didn't have to let go of the throttle once! Flat stick the whole way, but BOOOORRRRIIIINNNNGGG!
I don't see that enticing people with the promise of fair racing, I see it boring people silly and we may need bedding and pillows on the drivers stand!
#35
Tech Master
iTrader: (5)
the 21.5 class raced the same version, everyone who raced had to run the handout motor.
I usually race an R1 13.5 and my lap times around SMA were usually about 16.5-16.6 during the day, and I was doing 16.7-16.8 times . Some of the better drivers got down 16.5.
these motors are quicker then the standard Juststock motors.
There was certainly no slowness about them. Gearing was actually the same as what I run the R1 V7 at if not a little lower as they have more torque down low.
Don't knock it until you have tried it, that's all I am saying.
EDIT yay that was my 1500 useless posts in this forum
I usually race an R1 13.5 and my lap times around SMA were usually about 16.5-16.6 during the day, and I was doing 16.7-16.8 times . Some of the better drivers got down 16.5.
these motors are quicker then the standard Juststock motors.
There was certainly no slowness about them. Gearing was actually the same as what I run the R1 V7 at if not a little lower as they have more torque down low.
Don't knock it until you have tried it, that's all I am saying.
EDIT yay that was my 1500 useless posts in this forum
#37
Tech Champion
iTrader: (4)
the 21.5 class raced the same version, everyone who raced had to run the handout motor.
I usually race an R1 13.5 and my lap times around SMA were usually about 16.5-16.6 during the day, and I was doing 16.7-16.8 times . Some of the better drivers got down 16.5.
these motors are quicker then the standard Juststock motors.
There was certainly no slowness about them. Gearing was actually the same as what I run the R1 V7 at if not a little lower as they have more torque down low.
Don't knock it until you have tried it, that's all I am saying.
EDIT yay that was my 1500 useless posts in this forum
I usually race an R1 13.5 and my lap times around SMA were usually about 16.5-16.6 during the day, and I was doing 16.7-16.8 times . Some of the better drivers got down 16.5.
these motors are quicker then the standard Juststock motors.
There was certainly no slowness about them. Gearing was actually the same as what I run the R1 V7 at if not a little lower as they have more torque down low.
Don't knock it until you have tried it, that's all I am saying.
EDIT yay that was my 1500 useless posts in this forum
Even last night in the first club meeting since the XRS, a number of guys ran the XRS motor, and you could only tell the difference at the very end of the straight. The driver who won the final ran one, against a FR-1 of said track record holder...
#38
R/C Tech Elite Member
iTrader: (315)
Bare in mind with those times, the 13.5 lap record at SMA is 16.0, in far cooler conditions, and higher grip level. To be at 16.5 is very close on pace.
Even last night in the first club meeting since the XRS, a number of guys ran the XRS motor, and you could only tell the difference at the very end of the straight. The driver who won the final ran one, against a FR-1 of said track record holder...
Even last night in the first club meeting since the XRS, a number of guys ran the XRS motor, and you could only tell the difference at the very end of the straight. The driver who won the final ran one, against a FR-1 of said track record holder...
What is the track size, would you expect similar results / comparability on say a large outdoor track?
I'm tempted to grab one to test for myself, but would ask that those favouring these concept be open to the results whether they do or don't support their arguement, and use any data (which would be factual and backed up) to make an informed decision in the best interest of all racers.
So there's the challenge guys.....
#39
So the assertion is these are close to the 13.5 motors people run if geared at a similar level? What is the real timing on them considering the original Justock was around 25 degrees, and most motors people seem to sit between 50 and 55 degrees.
What is the track size, would you expect similar results / comparability on say a large outdoor track?
I'm tempted to grab one to test for myself, but would ask that those favouring these concept be open to the results whether they do or don't support their arguement, and use any data (which would be factual and backed up) to make an informed decision in the best interest of all racers.
So there's the challenge guys.....
What is the track size, would you expect similar results / comparability on say a large outdoor track?
I'm tempted to grab one to test for myself, but would ask that those favouring these concept be open to the results whether they do or don't support their arguement, and use any data (which would be factual and backed up) to make an informed decision in the best interest of all racers.
So there's the challenge guys.....
I don't think $200 certified motors is helping our hobby/sport IMO.
Last edited by jay m; 02-21-2017 at 11:37 PM.
#40
R/C Tech Elite Member
iTrader: (315)
I agree, I race 21.5 because frankly I'm not good enough to race the faster classes without making mistakes (regularly), call it old age. The motor tweaking / tuning / dynoing is more of an interest to me than any other part of the hobby, some people like set ups, shock piston hole discussions etc, I like motors. Jumping up a class I have considered, but the level of driver and expense in 13.5 is far more than that in 21.5 and I don't want to be the muppet who costs someone in those classes a state title because I couldn't get out of their way.
#42
Tech Regular
iTrader: (5)
So the assertion is these are close to the 13.5 motors people run if geared at a similar level? What is the real timing on them considering the original Justock was around 25 degrees, and most motors people seem to sit between 50 and 55 degrees.
What is the track size, would you expect similar results / comparability on say a large outdoor track?
I'm tempted to grab one to test for myself, but would ask that those favouring these concept be open to the results whether they do or don't support their arguement, and use any data (which would be factual and backed up) to make an informed decision in the best interest of all racers.
So there's the challenge guys.....
What is the track size, would you expect similar results / comparability on say a large outdoor track?
I'm tempted to grab one to test for myself, but would ask that those favouring these concept be open to the results whether they do or don't support their arguement, and use any data (which would be factual and backed up) to make an informed decision in the best interest of all racers.
So there's the challenge guys.....
A faster or slower motor can be selected as required to provide the desired speed.
#43
That's fine I understand the progression but when do you draw the line? When stock is not far from mod lap times at some tracks
Last edited by jay m; 02-22-2017 at 01:25 AM.
#44
we have just started using these motors for our interclub series
HOBBYWING XRS MOTOR JUSTOCK G2 - 13.5 (XY309950) - RC Hobby Land
racers can either hire them or buy one outright, they are fixed timing
First round has just been run and was lots of really close fun racing, there were no real surprises with the results, and times were not far off we were doing with our regular motors.
It can be done.
keep in mind a quick motor in Aus can cost up to $190 so a $70 control motor is a good option.
There are those against it, some I get the feeling they wont be quick enough with a level playing field but are usually not at the pointy end anyway, but that's my opinion
HOBBYWING XRS MOTOR JUSTOCK G2 - 13.5 (XY309950) - RC Hobby Land
racers can either hire them or buy one outright, they are fixed timing
First round has just been run and was lots of really close fun racing, there were no real surprises with the results, and times were not far off we were doing with our regular motors.
It can be done.
keep in mind a quick motor in Aus can cost up to $190 so a $70 control motor is a good option.
There are those against it, some I get the feeling they wont be quick enough with a level playing field but are usually not at the pointy end anyway, but that's my opinion