172LikesStandard TC vs Gizmo vs Awesomatix
11-30-2018, 08:59 AM
#137
@sps3172 - Ordered - Thank you. Glad too see I'm not the only one being confused. Thanks for providing the ref.
I've used this one lately: caveat, this is a pretty dry read
Weight Transfer: how it works and how to use it in setup
I've used this one lately: caveat, this is a pretty dry read
Weight Transfer: how it works and how to use it in setup
11-30-2018, 11:08 AM
#138
One major difference between real cars and RC cars is the tires. Real car tires give diminishing returns with more normal force. I've been told by an experienced and fast racer who did FSAE in college, that RC car rubber tires either don't, or we aren't loading them enough to get into the range of diminishing returns. Which is why a lot of TC tuning is counter-intuitive vs real car tuning, like going to stiffer springs on the rear to increase rear grip.
I'm still not 100% sure I believe that, though, because some things like a softer front bar giving more mid corner steering still align with normal car tuning.
Regarding CG height... TCs generally have a spool front axle, and lots of rear toe. If you don't get the load off the inside wheels while turning, you've got tons of scrub that's working against getting the car around the corner. In high grip, there's plenty of grip to transfer the load, and the limiting factor is keeping the car shiny side up, and responsive in left/right transitions. Low CG helps that. In very low grip, it's more likely that you're going to have trouble getting the weight to transfer, and the car to roll to square up the outside tire, so a higher CG might help with that. Especially if you want to try to stay stiff to generate heat in the tires.
I also think what someone else said about sometimes being more about visually being able to tell what the car is doing is also true. I know I've often preferred more droop to let the car roll more, just because it's easier to see what it's doing.
I'm still not 100% sure I believe that, though, because some things like a softer front bar giving more mid corner steering still align with normal car tuning.
Regarding CG height... TCs generally have a spool front axle, and lots of rear toe. If you don't get the load off the inside wheels while turning, you've got tons of scrub that's working against getting the car around the corner. In high grip, there's plenty of grip to transfer the load, and the limiting factor is keeping the car shiny side up, and responsive in left/right transitions. Low CG helps that. In very low grip, it's more likely that you're going to have trouble getting the weight to transfer, and the car to roll to square up the outside tire, so a higher CG might help with that. Especially if you want to try to stay stiff to generate heat in the tires.
I also think what someone else said about sometimes being more about visually being able to tell what the car is doing is also true. I know I've often preferred more droop to let the car roll more, just because it's easier to see what it's doing.
11-30-2018, 02:01 PM
#139
In low/medium grip we've found a heavier regular weight body was faster than lightweight.
Good thing with a very low CG Awesomatix, we can run regular weight bodies for low grip conditions. And slap on weights high up (e.g. roof) to induce the right amount of roll and have a good driving feel.
Good thing with a very low CG Awesomatix, we can run regular weight bodies for low grip conditions. And slap on weights high up (e.g. roof) to induce the right amount of roll and have a good driving feel.
11-30-2018, 09:26 PM
#140
I now have a headache reading all the personal bias and chest beating. Ive driven both cars mostly debated and they both have their ups and downs. I’ve driven dialed A800’s and others that Didn’t feel so great. My personal car is a Mugen and I have out driven most no matter what they drove. I did see a local with an Xray go from bottom A driver to I couldnt catch him last time out with his A800 which was well setup. At the end of the day we run what we can get parts for or our friends all run it. This thread needs to get back to actually helping explain the differences between the cars mentioned on the track more so than engineers being called out.
12-01-2018, 07:18 AM
#141
Can an engineer (not a keyboard engineer, but a proper engineer) please explain once and for all why a higher CG would yield mechanical grip? Or am I misunderstanding the above?
Because pretty much all 1:1 scale suspension setup theory says more weight transfer means more skidding on that axle...
I know it's a sacred cow in RC that more roll = more grip, I've heard this for 20+ years now... someone please point me to a physics book or some kind of web resource where this is modeled/described for RC cars. I can call out a couple of very serious car engineering books that say the opposite
I have nothing about the awesomatix, mind you. I just finished building my T4 '19 yesterday for its first race tomorrow, not because I am a fanboi, but because I'm a casual racer really, and I'd happily trade an hypothetical tenth per lap for reliability and part support
Cheers all,
Paul
Because pretty much all 1:1 scale suspension setup theory says more weight transfer means more skidding on that axle...
I know it's a sacred cow in RC that more roll = more grip, I've heard this for 20+ years now... someone please point me to a physics book or some kind of web resource where this is modeled/described for RC cars. I can call out a couple of very serious car engineering books that say the opposite
I have nothing about the awesomatix, mind you. I just finished building my T4 '19 yesterday for its first race tomorrow, not because I am a fanboi, but because I'm a casual racer really, and I'd happily trade an hypothetical tenth per lap for reliability and part support
Cheers all,
Paul
Sorry for confusing . I realized I typed cg instead of RC Roll center ... plus there other things like Droop for weight transfer make the differences
12-02-2018, 09:01 AM
#143
12-02-2018, 10:04 AM
#144
what class are you running for the nats? If you’re running 17.5 or USGT there are plenty of fast locals I can put you intouch with that can point you in the right direction. If you’re running mod there are also fast locals running both. My home track is Speedworld Raceway where the nats will be held at. It’s up to you to decide and only you know what kind of driver you are. Be honest with yourself though. If you brush the occasional barrier then maybe Xray is the way to go for durability. If you’re capable of lights out racing then push your luck and go Awesomatix. Things is......if you cant drive consistently the Awesomatix wont make you any better since some seem to think this car was dipped in gold😆😆😆😆😆. Either way good luck and look for STLNLST when you come to the nats 👍🏽 I’ll be the guy running the BD9 having a blast in the pits just enjoying this great hobby.
12-04-2018, 11:10 AM
#146
How is the quality?
12-04-2018, 11:17 AM
#147
Actually it's pretty good. It comes with metal outdrive, metal steering, battery mount (I modified mine to reduce weight). Graphite arms and the sway bars make it unique. The additional screws on the split top deck and under motor mount can make the car very spiff.
