When Will The Capacity End?
04-12-2003, 06:20 PM
#16
Re: CAPACITY FREEZ?
Originally posted by RACER XXX
What do you think of a capacity freez for a couple fo years, like no battery manufactures can put out any higher capacity cells above 3300 for about 5 years?
What do you think of a capacity freez for a couple fo years, like no battery manufactures can put out any higher capacity cells above 3300 for about 5 years?
..you'll get mixed reviews
-Dave
04-13-2003, 06:48 PM
#17
pretty soon, our transmitters willl be dumping before our
cars
cars
04-13-2003, 07:05 PM
#18
One thing we should consider is how long is it practical to run an electric motor for.
I am sure if I could get my 9 Turn mod to run for 10mins straight it would not be happy by the end of it. I know I once ran an 11Turn mod for 2 packs in a row when I was new to the hobby and I completely melted the plastic on the endbell
I am sure there is a limit somewhere.
Steevo
I am sure if I could get my 9 Turn mod to run for 10mins straight it would not be happy by the end of it. I know I once ran an 11Turn mod for 2 packs in a row when I was new to the hobby and I completely melted the plastic on the endbell
I am sure there is a limit somewhere.
Steevo
Last edited by Steevo; 04-13-2003 at 08:41 PM.
04-13-2003, 07:47 PM
#20
thats why we need to go to brushless. No tracks i know of in Scotland let you run anything lower than 12turns, the cost is not worth it, I'm not sure many places in the UK have a series for anything faster than 12turns in fact.
04-13-2003, 10:30 PM
#21
Re: CAPACITY FREEZ?
Originally posted by RACER XXX
What do you think of a capacity freez for a couple fo years, like no battery manufactures can put out any higher capacity cells above 3300 for about 5 years?
What affects good and bad will it have on the hobbie?
What do you think of a capacity freez for a couple fo years, like no battery manufactures can put out any higher capacity cells above 3300 for about 5 years?
What affects good and bad will it have on the hobbie?
The local clubs should put a cap on the batteries allowed, but not the manufacters.
04-14-2003, 04:56 AM
#22
Tech Adept
For sure capacity is going to keep going up, our hobby takes just a fraction of the output of the battery manufacturers, anyone who thinks that the battery manufacturer actually cares about our section of the market is mistaken. What we as a hobby must do is to ensure the entry into racing is both fun and affordable. In my opinion we can best do this by inroducing our own limits, we do at present by having classes with motor limits and spec tyres. However we musn't loose sight of the fact that some guys will always want to race with the ultimate equipment if that means a 5 turn motor with rare earth magnets and 4800 mah cells then so be it. Conversley we must ensure that it will still be possible to go into a shop buy a kit, radio gear, batteries and a chager and go racing competitively in the appropriate class. We can still do this now but the moment we can't then our hobby will start to die. Just look at what happened to slot racing particularly in the UK it got too expensive and you could only buy from specialists and then if you wern't any good at metal work you had to get someone to build the car for you. Nowadays no one has even heard of it mention it in a model shop and they'll say oh you mean Scalextric or Fly cars but there's just no comparison.
Let the guys who want it race the ultimate equipment but lets make sure there's room for all
Let the guys who want it race the ultimate equipment but lets make sure there's room for all
04-14-2003, 06:12 AM
#23
Tech Adept
With all of the capacity increases we have seen over the last 10 years, we have only increased the race time from 4 to 5 minutes. That is primarily due to the fact that we don't want to destroy our motors each run, as well as keeping a race day at a reasonable length. Just think about 10 heats running 10 minute qualifiers and races. Kept perfectly on time, that would take 8 hours to complete. Start at noon and get done at 8:00pm? Not for me.
The other challenge with these changes is just what was mentioned before, increased speed. That is great for us experienced drivers, but it is difficult for newer drivers to start with these increased speeds. It isn't easy for a driver to slow himself down, ego keeps that from happening.
Brushless will definitely change our world dramatically. Since I am not familiar with the technology, it is difficult for me to comment, but I'll do it anyway!!! As we move to this new world, we will still need class distinctions. We will need classes equivalent to stock and modified at least. Not all drivers are capable of driving at modified speeds. Stock may need to be a spec class where you run a specific motor and speed control, who knows.
Jeff Gilligan
The other challenge with these changes is just what was mentioned before, increased speed. That is great for us experienced drivers, but it is difficult for newer drivers to start with these increased speeds. It isn't easy for a driver to slow himself down, ego keeps that from happening.
Brushless will definitely change our world dramatically. Since I am not familiar with the technology, it is difficult for me to comment, but I'll do it anyway!!! As we move to this new world, we will still need class distinctions. We will need classes equivalent to stock and modified at least. Not all drivers are capable of driving at modified speeds. Stock may need to be a spec class where you run a specific motor and speed control, who knows.
Jeff Gilligan
04-14-2003, 06:22 AM
#24
Tech Adept
What I think has to be understood also is that what you gain in capacity, you also gain in weight. Even though there are batteries coming out that are lith-ion which have a lighter weight, not many people can afford them. People are going to find a happy medium where they get the speed and length(time) and weight mix. maybe with the rules on the weight of the cars, and chassis' becoming lighter, a little extra weight in the batteries may not be so bad
04-14-2003, 01:16 PM
#25
In a distance of approx 100 km from where I live, there's about 9 clubs. 7 of those are dominated by stock class. So around here, we basically dont need any better batteries. Of course, our stock classes are divided, some guys spend a fortune while some dont. But the good thing is, that we have a kind of limit and most people have fun at races.
Personally, I use to buy a pack or two per year. And usually, it'll be the best I can afford. That works good for me, and I still can spend money on other things
Personally, I use to buy a pack or two per year. And usually, it'll be the best I can afford. That works good for me, and I still can spend money on other things
04-14-2003, 01:57 PM
#26
Tech Adept
One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that the prices of our batteries has actually gone down recently. These new GP3300's are significantly cheaper than the Sanyo and Panasonic cells we were getting. I don't know how long this will last, but it's nice for now!!!
One of the other things that is helping keep costs lower now is the ability to run the NiMH packs multiple times per day. That means you only need 2 or 3 packs to get through a race day as opposed to the 4 to 8 packs it used to be.
To me, capacity is great! If I only need half the available charge from my battery, I will never get down to the lower voltage portion of the discharge curve. This also reduces the need to search for the longest runtime or best voltage batteries. If you look at the cells we use now, the average voltages are quite a bit higher than they used to be. But, the cells are still 1.2 volts. If you look at the discharge curve of a NiMH, you will see that the actual voltage is no higher than what we used to get from 1200mah batteries, it just carries the same high voltage for a longer portion of the discharge cycle.
Development will continue on the cells we use. If things continue the way they have, we may be looking at running 4 or 5 cells instead of 6 someday. That is what happened with 1/10th oval cars. Improvements in batteries and motors finally made the cars so fast that it was too intimidating for beginning drivers. 4-cell stock today is very close to what 6-cell stock was 8-10 years ago.
Jeff Gilligan
One of the other things that is helping keep costs lower now is the ability to run the NiMH packs multiple times per day. That means you only need 2 or 3 packs to get through a race day as opposed to the 4 to 8 packs it used to be.
To me, capacity is great! If I only need half the available charge from my battery, I will never get down to the lower voltage portion of the discharge curve. This also reduces the need to search for the longest runtime or best voltage batteries. If you look at the cells we use now, the average voltages are quite a bit higher than they used to be. But, the cells are still 1.2 volts. If you look at the discharge curve of a NiMH, you will see that the actual voltage is no higher than what we used to get from 1200mah batteries, it just carries the same high voltage for a longer portion of the discharge cycle.
Development will continue on the cells we use. If things continue the way they have, we may be looking at running 4 or 5 cells instead of 6 someday. That is what happened with 1/10th oval cars. Improvements in batteries and motors finally made the cars so fast that it was too intimidating for beginning drivers. 4-cell stock today is very close to what 6-cell stock was 8-10 years ago.
Jeff Gilligan
04-14-2003, 05:10 PM
#28
Tech Initiate
Umm, yeah ... those are 'D' cells, 8000 mAh isn't so amazing a capacity in a 'D' cell.
For reference, D cells are ~50.2 cm^3 in volume and weigh about 160 grams compared to ~16.9 and 60 grams for sub-c cells.
For reference, D cells are ~50.2 cm^3 in volume and weigh about 160 grams compared to ~16.9 and 60 grams for sub-c cells.
04-14-2003, 05:18 PM
#29
04-15-2003, 01:21 AM
#30
Originally posted by gotpez
One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that the prices of our batteries has actually gone down recently. These new GP3300's are significantly cheaper than the Sanyo and Panasonic cells we were getting. I don't know how long this will last, but it's nice for now!!!
One of the other things that is helping keep costs lower now is the ability to run the NiMH packs multiple times per day. That means you only need 2 or 3 packs to get through a race day as opposed to the 4 to 8 packs it used to be.
To me, capacity is great! If I only need half the available charge from my battery, I will never get down to the lower voltage portion of the discharge curve. This also reduces the need to search for the longest runtime or best voltage batteries. If you look at the cells we use now, the average voltages are quite a bit higher than they used to be. But, the cells are still 1.2 volts. If you look at the discharge curve of a NiMH, you will see that the actual voltage is no higher than what we used to get from 1200mah batteries, it just carries the same high voltage for a longer portion of the discharge cycle.
Development will continue on the cells we use. If things continue the way they have, we may be looking at running 4 or 5 cells instead of 6 someday. That is what happened with 1/10th oval cars. Improvements in batteries and motors finally made the cars so fast that it was too intimidating for beginning drivers. 4-cell stock today is very close to what 6-cell stock was 8-10 years ago.
Jeff Gilligan
One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that the prices of our batteries has actually gone down recently. These new GP3300's are significantly cheaper than the Sanyo and Panasonic cells we were getting. I don't know how long this will last, but it's nice for now!!!
One of the other things that is helping keep costs lower now is the ability to run the NiMH packs multiple times per day. That means you only need 2 or 3 packs to get through a race day as opposed to the 4 to 8 packs it used to be.
To me, capacity is great! If I only need half the available charge from my battery, I will never get down to the lower voltage portion of the discharge curve. This also reduces the need to search for the longest runtime or best voltage batteries. If you look at the cells we use now, the average voltages are quite a bit higher than they used to be. But, the cells are still 1.2 volts. If you look at the discharge curve of a NiMH, you will see that the actual voltage is no higher than what we used to get from 1200mah batteries, it just carries the same high voltage for a longer portion of the discharge cycle.
Development will continue on the cells we use. If things continue the way they have, we may be looking at running 4 or 5 cells instead of 6 someday. That is what happened with 1/10th oval cars. Improvements in batteries and motors finally made the cars so fast that it was too intimidating for beginning drivers. 4-cell stock today is very close to what 6-cell stock was 8-10 years ago.
Jeff Gilligan
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