how to tune in your car correctly
02-03-2014, 07:26 PM
#1
how to tune in your car correctly
Most cars now a days come with a stock set up, that is a good starting point. My question is how do you know which portion of the car to tune next, if you need a give thing such as more/less front or rear traction would be a pretty basic starting point, what about camber links (shorter or longer) track width (wider or narrower) wheel base, toe etc roll centers I comprehend fairly decently but the other stuff is a mystery as to which thing needs to be tuned next to get the car better (this is for touring car, by the way)
02-03-2014, 07:34 PM
#2
Scroll down tot the bottom of the page on the following link, download the PDF and read thru it, its a wealth of information
http://www.alphalanding.com/rc-track...-tuning-guide/
http://www.alphalanding.com/rc-track...-tuning-guide/
02-03-2014, 07:41 PM
#3
Scroll down tot the bottom of the page on the following link, download the PDF and read thru it, its a wealth of information
http://www.alphalanding.com/rc-track...-tuning-guide/
http://www.alphalanding.com/rc-track...-tuning-guide/
started reading this more indepth you are correct lots of knowledge however it doesnt really answer the questions i asked to begin with, which is how do you decide which portion of the car do you tune in order to achieve the desired change
Last edited by rc car guy; 02-03-2014 at 07:56 PM.
02-03-2014, 08:07 PM
#4
Go to the Team Xray site and download the set up guide. It breaks everything down for you. It even tells you what to do in order as well.. Probably the best overall book for set up
02-03-2014, 08:18 PM
#5
I either am clearly missing what order it "tells" you to adjust in or it doesnt say it unless the order is the order in which they come in the set up book
02-03-2014, 08:37 PM
#6
Most cars now a days come with a stock set up, that is a good starting point. My question is how do you know which portion of the car to tune next, if you need a give thing such as more/less front or rear traction would be a pretty basic starting point, what about camber links (shorter or longer) track width (wider or narrower) wheel base, toe etc roll centers I comprehend fairly decently but the other stuff is a mystery as to which thing needs to be tuned next to get the car better (this is for touring car, by the way)
I was that one dude, that every pack I would just throw major changes to the chassis and did this for several months to find a setup that worked for me. Needles to say this never worked, as I always was caught up in "wonder what this will do"... With me being a noob at the whole carpet TC on road thing I wanted to learn on my own and with the combination of being stubborn it came down to listening and hearing what my superiors were "trying" to tell/teach me.
Below is what I was told and after finally committing to the following, lo and behold, presto I got the grasp of my car and what it likes. More importantly what the car will benefit from or not benefit from by raising the rear shocks up one hole or lowering one hole.
To learn the car and learn your car well this was the advice I was given and I committed to this after an on going struggle with car handling.
1. Start with kit set-up and drive the car (several packs) get familiar with the car and not change a thing. The kit set-up is your baseline and the manufacture has tested the car giving you the "best" base line possible...
2. Once you are comfortable with how the car drives to your driving style (per base set-up), make SMALL changes to the car...
3. Only make one change at a time and commit to that change for a couple packs. You will notice a difference in the adjustment you made because your custom to the base-line you initially got comfortable with...
4. TAKE NOTES - very important
5. Revert back to number 2. MAKE SMALL ADJUSTMENTS
6. TAKE MORE NOTES
7. If the track owner gives you a XXX Main Chassis book, you read it and read it again until everything starts to click.
8. Getting caught up and trying to fully understand roll centers can be little discouraging as it talks about mechanical grip and the point were the car reaches it's maximum roll can be detrimental and overwhelming. However this is a big play in chassis performance, tweaking your set-up around the manufactures suggested RC settings is usually a great place to start...
9. Pay attention to how your car reacts to "small adjustments...
10. Wright your set-up down
I fully committed myself to the following above and now I have a better understanding on chassis set-up and what to change if anything as traction comes up or traction goes away. I found with my 14 T4, once you have located "your" base line set-up (per your driving) style, you will only make small adjustments anyway to compensate as traction conditions change throughout the day. (So why not start with small changes from the beginning) Radical changes are never a good thing
02-03-2014, 08:40 PM
#7
Well it depends on what the problem you are facing is. If you need more steering in the car you might pick the front of the car, but you can also change things on the rear of the car to achieve more steering.
One of the first things I change are usually the shocks. Usually I adjust the positioning first, then possibly a spring change. Very rarely do I change oil, once it is in the ballpark (I hate shock oil... but thats just me). If I can't solve the problem that way I may look at the swaybars on the car and adjust where they are mounted, or the thickness of the bar. (All depending on what the problem is) Next I would move to toe. I find that changing the rear toe in can have profound effects on handling characteristics. If its still not right I move on to the camber links. Some people look here first, but I prefer shocks. Lastly I would change arm mounts to adjust anti-dive and anti-squat etc. I usually keep camber about -1, but may change depending on what tire wear looks like (for instance in VTA or foam racing with wider rear tires you can run more camber). Camber can also be used to increase steering, more front camber=more initial steering.
The way I look at making changes is I try and visualize what is happening with the car. Say the car seems to be diving forward while braking on corner entry and leaning too far onto the front tires, causing the rear to break traction and oversteer. Then I would look at the front suspension first. In this case, too much weight is transferring to the front tires, possibly too much to the left front in particular on a clockwise circuit. You can easily visualize this by pushing down on the front shock tower with the car on the bench. To stop weight from transferring to the left front of the car, I might add a stiffer sway bar to try and distribute the force to both sides of the front suspension keeping the car more level. If the problem persists, then I would try either standing up the front shocks to dampen more, or add a stiffer spring to resist the weight transfer. All this time I was working on the front of the car. If it is a slight dive then you can always adjust the rear of the car. By reducing the rear droop you can keep the rear of the car closer to the track, and more planted because the tires will have more load on them.
For me, the more grip the track has, the stiffer the suspension you need, and for low grip, the softer the suspension.
Is this in relation to your TC6.2 traction rolling (I seem to remember you posting in that thread)?
Anyway, I hope this makes sense and helps.
One of the first things I change are usually the shocks. Usually I adjust the positioning first, then possibly a spring change. Very rarely do I change oil, once it is in the ballpark (I hate shock oil... but thats just me). If I can't solve the problem that way I may look at the swaybars on the car and adjust where they are mounted, or the thickness of the bar. (All depending on what the problem is) Next I would move to toe. I find that changing the rear toe in can have profound effects on handling characteristics. If its still not right I move on to the camber links. Some people look here first, but I prefer shocks. Lastly I would change arm mounts to adjust anti-dive and anti-squat etc. I usually keep camber about -1, but may change depending on what tire wear looks like (for instance in VTA or foam racing with wider rear tires you can run more camber). Camber can also be used to increase steering, more front camber=more initial steering.
The way I look at making changes is I try and visualize what is happening with the car. Say the car seems to be diving forward while braking on corner entry and leaning too far onto the front tires, causing the rear to break traction and oversteer. Then I would look at the front suspension first. In this case, too much weight is transferring to the front tires, possibly too much to the left front in particular on a clockwise circuit. You can easily visualize this by pushing down on the front shock tower with the car on the bench. To stop weight from transferring to the left front of the car, I might add a stiffer sway bar to try and distribute the force to both sides of the front suspension keeping the car more level. If the problem persists, then I would try either standing up the front shocks to dampen more, or add a stiffer spring to resist the weight transfer. All this time I was working on the front of the car. If it is a slight dive then you can always adjust the rear of the car. By reducing the rear droop you can keep the rear of the car closer to the track, and more planted because the tires will have more load on them.
For me, the more grip the track has, the stiffer the suspension you need, and for low grip, the softer the suspension.
Is this in relation to your TC6.2 traction rolling (I seem to remember you posting in that thread)?
Anyway, I hope this makes sense and helps.
02-03-2014, 08:49 PM
#8
The first thing you have to understand is that there isn't a preset order in which you do adjustments to the car. No one is going to be able to give you a checklist that you go down to adjust stuff on any given car. There are simply too many (millions, and millions) of variables involving tires, track surface, driving style, layout, temperature, etc,etc,etc to give you a correct order in which to do changes on a chassis, or to tell you what to adjust and on what end of the car. Learning what small adjustments do, and making either a mental note of it or writing down and learning your own understandings are crucial to figuring out your car. Two people can do the same adjustment and feel something different on account of different driving styles and preferences, so it's up to the individual to understand what they have, what they want, and having an understanding of what they can do to make a change. Sure, a setup guide or outside source is a great way to get an idea on what to try to find what you are looking for, but it's just that, a guide.
02-03-2014, 08:52 PM
#9
The first thing you have to understand is that there isn't a preset order in which you do adjustments to the car. No one is going to be able to give you a checklist that you go down to adjust stuff on any given car. There are simply too many (millions, and millions) of variables involving tires, track surface, driving style, layout, temperature, etc,etc,etc to give you a correct order in which to do changes on a chassis, or to tell you what to adjust and on what end of the car. Learning what small adjustments do, and making either a mental note of it or writing down and learning your own understandings are crucial to figuring out your car. Two people can do the same adjustment and feel something different on account of different driving styles and preferences, so it's up to the individual to understand what they have, what they want, and having an understanding of what they can do to make a change. Sure, a setup guide or outside source is a great way to get an idea on what to try to find what you are looking for, but it's just that, a guide.
+1 Agreed. Definitely take note of what your changes do. Based on driving style alone two identical cars can handle very differently.
02-03-2014, 08:56 PM
#10
The first thing you have to understand is that there isn't a preset order in which you do adjustments to the car. No one is going to be able to give you a checklist that you go down to adjust stuff on any given car. There are simply too many (millions, and millions) of variables involving tires, track surface, driving style, layout, temperature, etc,etc,etc to give you a correct order in which to do changes on a chassis, or to tell you what to adjust and on what end of the car. Learning what small adjustments do, and making either a mental note of it or writing down and learning your own understandings are crucial to figuring out your car. Two people can do the same adjustment and feel something different on account of different driving styles and preferences, so it's up to the individual to understand what they have, what they want, and having an understanding of what they can do to make a change. Sure, a setup guide or outside source is a great way to get an idea on what to try to find what you are looking for, but it's just that, a guide.
02-03-2014, 09:09 PM
#11
well i was kind of expecting that answer but in a more detailed way, ive read through about a dozen set up "guides" and all ive found are what each change should do... haha i realize that some set up changes in the car contradict each other yes the tc 6.2 is still fairly new to the market and no one around me drives one that i know of so im kind of stuck trying find a way to set up my car properly, other guys at the track are geniuses in tc but i bother them enough so i bother you nice people instead ... haha also kevens set up online for tc are for mod, and for higher traction tracks and tracks that are not so technical and the ones run on are technical small lower traction and race 17.5 blinky so finding help online for this is kind of troublesome and i do the best i can with what i can i hope
02-03-2014, 09:11 PM
#12
I have the rc setup workbench app on my phone. It's awesome. It has explanations for pretty much everything and even gives you a chart of things to change in which direction based on the handling scenario you are dealing with. It has FDR and rollout calculators and all sorts of other nifty things. Even a setup sheet. You can also get most of the information in the app on the Facebook page too. Rc setup workbench. I highly recommend checking it out.
02-03-2014, 09:15 PM
#13
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (27)
I always start with a stock setup and then you need to drive the car first and figure out what it's doing. I always try to break it down into two things for the first run... Is it oversteering or understeering? Try to identify at what point the car is getting loose or the car is pushing. At that point, you make changes depending on what you need. If the car is almost perfect with the stock setup, then you'll only need minor changes (slightly more droop, more camber, etc..) If the car is just terrible and doesn't work at all, then maybe you need some bigger changes (different shock oils/springs, gear diff vs spool, diff oil, etc...)
Like everyone was saying there's not a.. Step 1, change this. Step 2, change this.
Like everyone was saying there's not a.. Step 1, change this. Step 2, change this.
02-03-2014, 09:27 PM
#14
well i was kind of expecting that answer but in a more detailed way, ive read through about a dozen set up "guides" and all ive found are what each change should do... haha i realize that some set up changes in the car contradict each other yes the tc 6.2 is still fairly new to the market and no one around me drives one that i know of so im kind of stuck trying find a way to set up my car properly, other guys at the track are geniuses in tc but i bother them enough so i bother you nice people instead ... haha also kevens set up online for tc are for mod, and for higher traction tracks and tracks that are not so technical and the ones run on are technical small lower traction and race 17.5 blinky so finding help online for this is kind of troublesome and i do the best i can with what i can i hope
One thing that really helps is video. If you can get video of the fast guys, and video of yourself, you should be able to see where you are losing time against them. Then you go out and try to emulate their lines and speeds more closely. When you fail to do so, think about why. Does the car lack grip? Is turn in too sluggish? Are you lacking forward bite? Is it pushing wide on exit? Once you figure that out, that's where you can actually start trying to use the setup guides to make changes.
EDIT: As others have said, kit setups are generally good (although I thought the TC6.1 setup was crap for carpet). The changes you should be looking at are droop, spring rates, shocj angles, camber, shock oils, and dual rate. Start with droop and shock oil. The goal is to make the car easier for you to drive consistently. If you haven't got consistency, you won't be able to evaluate other changes.
-Mike
02-03-2014, 09:34 PM
#15
well i was kind of expecting that answer but in a more detailed way, ive read through about a dozen set up "guides" and all ive found are what each change should do... haha i realize that some set up changes in the car contradict each other yes the tc 6.2 is still fairly new to the market and no one around me drives one that i know of so im kind of stuck trying find a way to set up my car properly, other guys at the track are geniuses in tc but i bother them enough so i bother you nice people instead ... haha also kevens set up online for tc are for mod, and for higher traction tracks and tracks that are not so technical and the ones run on are technical small lower traction and race 17.5 blinky so finding help online for this is kind of troublesome and i do the best i can with what i can i hope
Once your comfortable running on factory set-up, lower the front shock down one hole and drive the car and get familiar with the change. Next lower the rear shocks down one hole and drive the car. If the car felt better prior to lowering the rear shocks, put them back in the original position. Keep making small adjustments until your car is yours. If you make a change and the car didn't adapt, put it back.
* Camber Links, Camber Shims, Camber, Toe, Shock Positioning, Springs, Up-Travel, Chassis Balance, Wheel Base are all vital. Steering EXPO, Dual Rate also end points are very important as well. If your having issues with traction rolling maybe turning down the Dual Rate a click or two will take away some front bite on entry. More importantly tires and tire preparation is critical.
* Anti-Dive, Kick-up, Anti-Squat, Arm Sweep, Bump Steer, Ackerman. Things in that area need to come last as I feel those are maximum tuning options to take your car to the man on the moon level.
Hope this helps as it did me