R/C Tech Live @ the 2004 Novak US Touring Car Championship
01-19-2004, 10:59 AM
#301
Originally posted by AdrianM
Yes, foams work on asphalt but they are not legal for any form of santioned racing (ROAR, IFMAR, NORCCA).
One of the main reasons 1/10th pan cars died was the hassle of racing foams on asphalt. Constant changes on ride height and gear ratios due to wear and poor traction on average parking lot tracks made them expensive.
In the R/C industry most sedan manufacturers actively try to prevent sedans from going to foam tires. We all remember how bad it was to run foams and fear the sedans will go the way of pan cars if it not kept in check.
Yes, foams work on asphalt but they are not legal for any form of santioned racing (ROAR, IFMAR, NORCCA).
One of the main reasons 1/10th pan cars died was the hassle of racing foams on asphalt. Constant changes on ride height and gear ratios due to wear and poor traction on average parking lot tracks made them expensive.
In the R/C industry most sedan manufacturers actively try to prevent sedans from going to foam tires. We all remember how bad it was to run foams and fear the sedans will go the way of pan cars if it not kept in check.
01-19-2004, 11:45 AM
#303
I've never *really* run foam tires on sedan on asphalt for any length of time...so I can't say that I'm an expert on it by any means...
but if things keep going the way they're going -- control tire/insert/rim... I'd welcome going to foam tires from a racer/tuner's standpoint...
By taking the tires/insert/rim out of the equation... it also takes preparation and testing out of the equation... I'm all for testing and trying to come up with something better than "the norm." Anyone who is into racing will acknowledge that tires are a VERY important part of the package...
I realize that people will say that control tires "force you to tune your car"... this is all well and good if you have plenty of time to do so... but 2 or 3 controlled practice runs coupled with a half-a-dozen crazy open practice melee's doesn't really cut it alot of the time... especially when the track is changing... or it's a track that you don't get to run at alot...
I also realize this isn't as consumer friendly as a control tire/insert is... but I'd rather put time, effort, and resources into trying to make my car as fast as possible... not try to make a lame duck not so lame... if you get where I'm coming from...
I guess my point is that I think that hard work, testing, and preparation should be rewarded at big races instead of constant rulings to take any advantages out of play that will come from this type of hard work...
but if things keep going the way they're going -- control tire/insert/rim... I'd welcome going to foam tires from a racer/tuner's standpoint...
By taking the tires/insert/rim out of the equation... it also takes preparation and testing out of the equation... I'm all for testing and trying to come up with something better than "the norm." Anyone who is into racing will acknowledge that tires are a VERY important part of the package...
I realize that people will say that control tires "force you to tune your car"... this is all well and good if you have plenty of time to do so... but 2 or 3 controlled practice runs coupled with a half-a-dozen crazy open practice melee's doesn't really cut it alot of the time... especially when the track is changing... or it's a track that you don't get to run at alot...
I also realize this isn't as consumer friendly as a control tire/insert is... but I'd rather put time, effort, and resources into trying to make my car as fast as possible... not try to make a lame duck not so lame... if you get where I'm coming from...
I guess my point is that I think that hard work, testing, and preparation should be rewarded at big races instead of constant rulings to take any advantages out of play that will come from this type of hard work...
01-19-2004, 02:23 PM
#304
El Capitan! Whats up Steve!
Think of it like this...would running a 1/12 car a Hobbytown Gilbert, on that asphalt, in that heat be fun? Ok, how about foams on a sedan at that track? The asphalt there is pretty normal for a decent parking lot track. Tire wear would be crazy. so you would adjust ride height, droop camber and gear ratio every couple of runs...unless you had a bunch of tires and changed them every run.
Now...look at the Reedy race. Control preglued spec tires. No tire/insert/rim variables. Craig Drescher...12.9 laps in the morning (60deg track), 12.9 laps in the adternoon (120deg track), 12.9 laps on 3rd run tires.
To me honest we (Schumacher) import the CS Series Premount spec tire (CS22,27,32GL) but we also sell Take Off Nitro Foams and will have a full range of Take Off Carpet foams very soon.
Foams or Rubber it makes no diffrence to us...However, most manufactures base their decision on whats best for the hobby as happy customers that stay in the hobby are good for business.
That why we and most of the larger manufacturers push to keep sedans on rubber. Cars can get too fast and racers will loose interest if its not fun/too much work/too expensive to keep racing.
That said racers are in store from some intersting racing developments this year...just wait...
Think of it like this...would running a 1/12 car a Hobbytown Gilbert, on that asphalt, in that heat be fun? Ok, how about foams on a sedan at that track? The asphalt there is pretty normal for a decent parking lot track. Tire wear would be crazy. so you would adjust ride height, droop camber and gear ratio every couple of runs...unless you had a bunch of tires and changed them every run.
Now...look at the Reedy race. Control preglued spec tires. No tire/insert/rim variables. Craig Drescher...12.9 laps in the morning (60deg track), 12.9 laps in the adternoon (120deg track), 12.9 laps on 3rd run tires.
To me honest we (Schumacher) import the CS Series Premount spec tire (CS22,27,32GL) but we also sell Take Off Nitro Foams and will have a full range of Take Off Carpet foams very soon.
Foams or Rubber it makes no diffrence to us...However, most manufactures base their decision on whats best for the hobby as happy customers that stay in the hobby are good for business.
That why we and most of the larger manufacturers push to keep sedans on rubber. Cars can get too fast and racers will loose interest if its not fun/too much work/too expensive to keep racing.
That said racers are in store from some intersting racing developments this year...just wait...
01-19-2004, 02:34 PM
#305
You say that like you know something we don't know 
01-19-2004, 06:37 PM
#306
I would have to second that....
Should be a great year regardless....
Should be a great year regardless....
01-21-2004, 10:03 AM
#307
Originally posted by AdrianM
El Capitan! Whats up Steve!
Think of it like this...would running a 1/12 car a Hobbytown Gilbert, on that asphalt, in that heat be fun? Ok, how about foams on a sedan at that track? The asphalt there is pretty normal for a decent parking lot track. Tire wear would be crazy. so you would adjust ride height, droop camber and gear ratio every couple of runs...unless you had a bunch of tires and changed them every run.
Now...look at the Reedy race. Control preglued spec tires. No tire/insert/rim variables. Craig Drescher...12.9 laps in the morning (60deg track), 12.9 laps in the adternoon (120deg track), 12.9 laps on 3rd run tires.
To me honest we (Schumacher) import the CS Series Premount spec tire (CS22,27,32GL) but we also sell Take Off Nitro Foams and will have a full range of Take Off Carpet foams very soon.
Foams or Rubber it makes no diffrence to us...However, most manufactures base their decision on whats best for the hobby as happy customers that stay in the hobby are good for business.
That why we and most of the larger manufacturers push to keep sedans on rubber. Cars can get too fast and racers will loose interest if its not fun/too much work/too expensive to keep racing.
That said racers are in store from some intersting racing developments this year...just wait...
El Capitan! Whats up Steve!
Think of it like this...would running a 1/12 car a Hobbytown Gilbert, on that asphalt, in that heat be fun? Ok, how about foams on a sedan at that track? The asphalt there is pretty normal for a decent parking lot track. Tire wear would be crazy. so you would adjust ride height, droop camber and gear ratio every couple of runs...unless you had a bunch of tires and changed them every run.
Now...look at the Reedy race. Control preglued spec tires. No tire/insert/rim variables. Craig Drescher...12.9 laps in the morning (60deg track), 12.9 laps in the adternoon (120deg track), 12.9 laps on 3rd run tires.
To me honest we (Schumacher) import the CS Series Premount spec tire (CS22,27,32GL) but we also sell Take Off Nitro Foams and will have a full range of Take Off Carpet foams very soon.
Foams or Rubber it makes no diffrence to us...However, most manufactures base their decision on whats best for the hobby as happy customers that stay in the hobby are good for business.
That why we and most of the larger manufacturers push to keep sedans on rubber. Cars can get too fast and racers will loose interest if its not fun/too much work/too expensive to keep racing.
That said racers are in store from some intersting racing developments this year...just wait...
glad to C someone out there who know`s whats best for on-road sedan racing......
01-21-2004, 10:36 AM
#308
Adrian - I fully agree with you on this. I don't even like foam tires on carpet. It's not cheaper, the only difference is that you can hold half throttle around most of the track.
If electric went to foam outdoors too, I would probably start looking a little more closely at that offroad track in the back of Trackside.
If electric went to foam outdoors too, I would probably start looking a little more closely at that offroad track in the back of Trackside.
01-21-2004, 10:43 AM
#309
If electric went to foam outdoors too, I would probably start looking a little more closely at that offroad track in the back of Trackside.
01-21-2004, 02:57 PM
#311
Originally posted by TSR6
Adrian - I fully agree with you on this. I don't even like foam tires on carpet. It's not cheaper, the only difference is that you can hold half throttle around most of the track.
If electric went to foam outdoors too, I would probably start looking a little more closely at that offroad track in the back of Trackside.
Adrian - I fully agree with you on this. I don't even like foam tires on carpet. It's not cheaper, the only difference is that you can hold half throttle around most of the track.
If electric went to foam outdoors too, I would probably start looking a little more closely at that offroad track in the back of Trackside.
And yes, like sobottka said foam = fast.
Foam on asphalt would be cool, i think.
01-21-2004, 03:01 PM
#312
Originally posted by Brian McGreevy
Only half throttle troy? No wonder you were slow on foam tires
Only half throttle troy? No wonder you were slow on foam tires
01-21-2004, 09:08 PM
#314
R/C Tech Founder
Thread Starter
I am going to finally un-stick this thread. Thanks everybody for checking out our race coverage, and to Scotty and the Trackside crew for a great race.
Look for more coverage of the Novak race in the next issue of Xtreme R/C!
See you all in a couple weeks at Snowbirds!
Look for more coverage of the Novak race in the next issue of Xtreme R/C!
See you all in a couple weeks at Snowbirds!
