Major problems breaking in new Hyper .21 8 port
04-12-2014, 08:40 PM
#1
Major problems breaking in new Hyper .21 8 port
So I finally got my new Hyper .21 8 port and tried to break it in today.
Everything was going perfect for the first 1 1/2 tanks until it died on its own in TDC. It got stuck there and I couldn't get it unstuck fast enough.
I ended up ruining a brand new Fioroni clutch in the process of unsticking it and that wasn't until it cooled down to about 105.
And now, every time it dies on its own, it's always in TDC. If I shut it off myself, the flywheel lands where I want it to, @BDC.
I had to try to finish this with the motor removed from the car and on an extra chassis I have that's the same as the car so it goes right on my starter box. I have a spare flywheel and the tank out of the way so I can put a 10mm socket on the flywheel nut to unstick it every time it gets stuck there.
I've done 4 tanks in it so far but it's still way to tight at the top.
I don't want to put it back in the car to finish the break in if it's just going to get stuck like this all the time. I don't remember having any problems with my last Hyper 21 I had back in 2006. Today's been nothing but problems.
Has anybody had this kind of issue breaking in a motor and how can I get past this?
I've never had any problem like this before and this is my 5th motor I've owned and broke in.
Everything was going perfect for the first 1 1/2 tanks until it died on its own in TDC. It got stuck there and I couldn't get it unstuck fast enough.
I ended up ruining a brand new Fioroni clutch in the process of unsticking it and that wasn't until it cooled down to about 105.
And now, every time it dies on its own, it's always in TDC. If I shut it off myself, the flywheel lands where I want it to, @BDC.
I had to try to finish this with the motor removed from the car and on an extra chassis I have that's the same as the car so it goes right on my starter box. I have a spare flywheel and the tank out of the way so I can put a 10mm socket on the flywheel nut to unstick it every time it gets stuck there.
I've done 4 tanks in it so far but it's still way to tight at the top.
I don't want to put it back in the car to finish the break in if it's just going to get stuck like this all the time. I don't remember having any problems with my last Hyper 21 I had back in 2006. Today's been nothing but problems.
Has anybody had this kind of issue breaking in a motor and how can I get past this?
I've never had any problem like this before and this is my 5th motor I've owned and broke in.
04-12-2014, 09:56 PM
#2
Preheat the engine with a hair dryer before starting. It will expand the sleeve and stop it from getting stuck. Keep applying heat while the engine is running every 2-3 minutes to prevent it from cooling down. After another 2-3 tanks you won't have to heat it anymore.
04-12-2014, 10:11 PM
#3
I mean, there's no damage?
Now here's my next question about the heat: when it dies and it's up to temp and stopped at TDC, it still over 200 degrees. I think it was somewhere around 210 when it died the first time and got stuck @ TDC. Using a heat gun will prevent this or just help it start easier?
I guess I'll have to go shopping tomorrow for a new heat gun. I remember back in 2006, I had one. I don't remember what I used it for though.
Sounds good to me if just a few more tanks and this will go away.
This thing has the tightest pinch I've ever seen. By not just a little but I mean by a lot.
Here's some pics of the set up I had to switch it to make up real fast to finish break-in.
04-13-2014, 01:11 AM
#5
I would be very surprised if your engine was maintaining 200 degrees Fahrenheit on its own by just idling. Something doesn't sound right there. Could your temp gun be off on its calibration? An engine set with a rich tune for break in usually runs pretty cold (130-165 degrees Fahrenheit depending on ambient temp) unless heated artificially (like with a heat gun or comp heat engine heater) or wrapped thoroughly.
When I use a heat gun to keep the temps up during break in, I strive to keep the engine in the 200 - 225 degrees Fahrenheit range.so far that has worked well for me. I point the heat gun straight down on the head to pre-heat it. Once started I keep the gun pointed at the side of the head because the engine tries to conk out if I do it from the top down. The heat from the top probably messes with the glow plug. I vary the distance the hat gun is to the engine in order to maintain that temp.
As far as why your piston is getting stuck at tdc, I would agree the pinch is really tight. The heat will expand the sleeve, but make sure you temp gauge is accurate.
You also may want to crank up the idle so it will stay on with out dying and / or lean it out some.
When I use a heat gun to keep the temps up during break in, I strive to keep the engine in the 200 - 225 degrees Fahrenheit range.so far that has worked well for me. I point the heat gun straight down on the head to pre-heat it. Once started I keep the gun pointed at the side of the head because the engine tries to conk out if I do it from the top down. The heat from the top probably messes with the glow plug. I vary the distance the hat gun is to the engine in order to maintain that temp.
As far as why your piston is getting stuck at tdc, I would agree the pinch is really tight. The heat will expand the sleeve, but make sure you temp gauge is accurate.
You also may want to crank up the idle so it will stay on with out dying and / or lean it out some.
04-13-2014, 01:30 AM
#6
The most critical thing you need to do when breaking in an engine is pre-heat and MAINTAIN the heat in the engine. The head should be wrapped in Alu foil or something similar to prevent the heat escaping. Don't use the idle method of break in as it doesn't maintain heat well enough. It's best to start running the car on the track steadily varying the throttle/rpm. Once you get past the first 4-5 tanks it'll have loosened up a bit. You still need to preheat it though. Also don't be over-rich when breaking in as that can do damage. If the engine does jam at TDC don't try to move it if the engine is cold - reheat it and then carefully bring the piston down - it's easier to do this with the engine removed if it's really stuck.
04-13-2014, 08:26 AM
#7
I would be very surprised if your engine was maintaining 200 degrees Fahrenheit on its own by just idling. Something doesn't sound right there. Could your temp gun be off on its calibration? An engine set with a rich tune for break in usually runs pretty cold (130-165 degrees Fahrenheit depending on ambient temp) unless heated artificially (like with a heat gun or comp heat engine heater) or wrapped thoroughly.
When I use a heat gun to keep the temps up during break in, I strive to keep the engine in the 200 - 225 degrees Fahrenheit range.so far that has worked well for me. I point the heat gun straight down on the head to pre-heat it. Once started I keep the gun pointed at the side of the head because the engine tries to conk out if I do it from the top down. The heat from the top probably messes with the glow plug. I vary the distance the hat gun is to the engine in order to maintain that temp.
As far as why your piston is getting stuck at tdc, I would agree the pinch is really tight. The heat will expand the sleeve, but make sure you temp gauge is accurate.
You also may want to crank up the idle so it will stay on with out dying and / or lean it out some.
When I use a heat gun to keep the temps up during break in, I strive to keep the engine in the 200 - 225 degrees Fahrenheit range.so far that has worked well for me. I point the heat gun straight down on the head to pre-heat it. Once started I keep the gun pointed at the side of the head because the engine tries to conk out if I do it from the top down. The heat from the top probably messes with the glow plug. I vary the distance the hat gun is to the engine in order to maintain that temp.
As far as why your piston is getting stuck at tdc, I would agree the pinch is really tight. The heat will expand the sleeve, but make sure you temp gauge is accurate.
You also may want to crank up the idle so it will stay on with out dying and / or lean it out some.
The instructions say to adj the idle so it doesn't engage the clutch but it was going good until I did that.
My temp guage is accurate- I believe. What's the best way to do that?
I've always just compared it to other things, like the oven or my car after driving. I know the exhaust manifolds on a v6 or V8 get to about 400 degrees and with an oven on to cook something, I'll point it inside and see if it looks the same as what the oven's set to. Is there a better way?
04-13-2014, 08:31 AM
#8
The most critical thing you need to do when breaking in an engine is pre-heat and MAINTAIN the heat in the engine. The head should be wrapped in Alu foil or something similar to prevent the heat escaping. Don't use the idle method of break in as it doesn't maintain heat well enough. It's best to start running the car on the track steadily varying the throttle/rpm. Once you get past the first 4-5 tanks it'll have loosened up a bit. You still need to preheat it though. Also don't be over-rich when breaking in as that can do damage. If the engine does jam at TDC don't try to move it if the engine is cold - reheat it and then carefully bring the piston down - it's easier to do this with the engine removed if it's really stuck.
I know lean can do damage. Over-rich can do damage too?
04-13-2014, 09:40 AM
#10
I am now. I had it in the car and it was idling turning the wheels. The instructions said to set the idle so it does not engage the clutch which tells me it should just idle but that's where it wants to shut off at TDC.
Because it kept locking up, I set it up on a different chassis with no load except the flywheel.
Does it have to have a load on it like driving it?
This thing dies in TDC and it gets stuck. I can't get it loose again with it in the car and the clutch in the way.
And I can't spend all day removing the motor and putting it back in again every time it gets stuck.
Because it kept locking up, I set it up on a different chassis with no load except the flywheel.
Does it have to have a load on it like driving it?
This thing dies in TDC and it gets stuck. I can't get it loose again with it in the car and the clutch in the way.
And I can't spend all day removing the motor and putting it back in again every time it gets stuck.
04-13-2014, 10:05 AM
#11
I am now. I had it in the car and it was idling turning the wheels. The instructions said to set the idle so it does not engage the clutch which tells me it should just idle but that's where it wants to shut off at TDC.
Because it kept locking up, I set it up on a different chassis with no load except the flywheel.
Does it have to have a load on it like driving it?
This thing dies in TDC and it gets stuck. I can't get it loose again with it in the car and the clutch in the way.
And I can't spend all day removing the motor and putting it back in again every time it gets stuck.
Because it kept locking up, I set it up on a different chassis with no load except the flywheel.
Does it have to have a load on it like driving it?
This thing dies in TDC and it gets stuck. I can't get it loose again with it in the car and the clutch in the way.
And I can't spend all day removing the motor and putting it back in again every time it gets stuck.
04-13-2014, 11:40 AM
#12
It was stuck so bad, no amount of prying with anything would break it loose.
The only thing that works is a socket on the clutch nut turning clockwise and comes loose with a snapping sound.
When it gets stuck, it gets really stuck really bad.
04-13-2014, 12:53 PM
#14
If the engine is idling fast enough to turn the wheels its OK. The main thing is that the engine needs to stay on and stay hot (I like 200- 225). It doesn't need to idle super fast, but if the only way it'll stay on is to turn up the idle some, that is fine.
A heat gun is a better way to get the temps up than leaning the bottom end to oblivion to get the temp up. A lean low speed needle makes idle erratic. I would adjust the low speed needle so it's flush with the housing it's in as a starting point. When you're running, if it's blubberingly rich to the point that it won't idle on it's own and you can't compensate with the idle screw, then lean the low speed needle some until it does.
A way to check your temp gauge fairly easily is to preheat the engine until your temp gun says its at 212 degrees Fahrenheit. That is the point at which water boils. You can dip your finger into a glass of water. Let a droplet (the smaller the better) roll off your finger onto the top part of the head of the engine. It should sizzle. If not, it's not hot enough. The head of an engine cools very fast, so be quick... or heat it more to compensate for the temp drop while you're dipping your finger.
Also, don't discount that it may need a new glow plug. Some new engines eat them up quickly during break in.
A heat gun is a better way to get the temps up than leaning the bottom end to oblivion to get the temp up. A lean low speed needle makes idle erratic. I would adjust the low speed needle so it's flush with the housing it's in as a starting point. When you're running, if it's blubberingly rich to the point that it won't idle on it's own and you can't compensate with the idle screw, then lean the low speed needle some until it does.
A way to check your temp gauge fairly easily is to preheat the engine until your temp gun says its at 212 degrees Fahrenheit. That is the point at which water boils. You can dip your finger into a glass of water. Let a droplet (the smaller the better) roll off your finger onto the top part of the head of the engine. It should sizzle. If not, it's not hot enough. The head of an engine cools very fast, so be quick... or heat it more to compensate for the temp drop while you're dipping your finger.
Also, don't discount that it may need a new glow plug. Some new engines eat them up quickly during break in.
04-13-2014, 01:56 PM
#15
Heat gun and now you know for next time use a sacrificial flywheel.This common. You can heat the engine with the heat gun as it is ideling and get it to 200 degrees before starting it and try to keep it at 200 degrees throughout break in. Put it on the starter box and let the wheels spin it will not hurt anything. The engine should be fine, some are harder than others to break in.