How to setup a car with no traction compound on carpet
04-15-2007, 03:09 PM
#47
Originally Posted by A-Ko
Lee I did get the message. Just suggestion a shortened version of speedweek. If you decided to come I would be happy to give you setup info. I know my TA problems have mostly been electronic rather than setups...
Keep up the good testin!
Keep up the good testin!
Jeff.
I don't mean to be rude but still i don't think you got the message. My parent's are frantically going be in full tilt selling the house around the time of the Tamiya race and if we miss even one day out of wisconsin we could miss a very potenial buyer to sell our home to. Also. Me and my dad don't know alot about asphalt (however we have come very close i the past to winning the nats but that's because we had a good setup, not to mention we havn't been on a asphalt track since 2004.) and probably wouldn't do very well on a shortened speedweek. However.... that will change next year becuase we will have all the asphalt expierience we can handle and a podium or a win is very possible in the future.
-Lee
04-17-2007, 09:24 PM
#49
All right. A suprise. Tonght i actually raced. I praticed 4 times before 7:00PM which is when racing starts. I tried a ferrari 430 body this time and it worked ok. but my car was tweaked turning one way and I had a professinal helped un tweak it but then was twekaed the other way. So it was a tireal and error thing. and mounted the rear shocks down one hole.
The Race
Had to use a 27 turn stock which someone lended for the race cause of the rules. I couldn't run my 23 turn. The first qualfier i tried to pretend that i was qualifying at the tamiya world championship the guy in the lead was way muhc faste than i was so i really didn't concentrait on him much. the car was a tad bit loose in the begginnng but it cgot much more contrlable at the end. I qualifed 2nd however according to lap time i would of been qualifed 4th (minus 1st place who had a 13.3). the second qualifier i tried a roll center change in the back and it helped pretty well however the guy who qualfied behind me was much faster and picked his game more than i did. Athe end i qualfied 3rd but according to lap time's (Again minus 1st) i would of been 3rd however the guy who was in second got his fastest lap after 3mins, and in the the tamiya world's they run 3 min qualifing so i would of been second by 5 one hundreth's.. The main was pretty intersting. I was sitting 3rd and i almost got messed up in the start i went wide and 4th got under me but i cut deep inside and 4th would run into 2nd. 1st was way gone but i concentraited on my race the guy who was sitting 4th and tgot in the wreck, he tired to keep up with me but got into some accendent's and was shuffled back a few positions i had a prety good deal of real estate for second unit the last one minute and 30 seconds 3rd had caught up to me drastically due to the fact that he was running traction compound and CS-27 and i was running A's no traction compound at all by one minutei had to let 1st place go who was lapping everyone and 3rd was now only more than a car length behind i knew catching up to me is one thing getting by me is another. by 30 seoconds i very lightly tapped one of the corners but was able to matain my position at he last stragthaway 3rd tried to get under me at the finsh line(however he was more than one car length away) but clipped the corrner and his race was over. but i got and extra lap cause I made to the finish line faster. So tonight wasn't bad but i think i coud still get some more setup magic going.
I am going to give some thought what i should do for my next test. Maybe a race with new tires to see what happens.
-Lee
The Race
Had to use a 27 turn stock which someone lended for the race cause of the rules. I couldn't run my 23 turn. The first qualfier i tried to pretend that i was qualifying at the tamiya world championship the guy in the lead was way muhc faste than i was so i really didn't concentrait on him much. the car was a tad bit loose in the begginnng but it cgot much more contrlable at the end. I qualifed 2nd however according to lap time i would of been qualifed 4th (minus 1st place who had a 13.3). the second qualifier i tried a roll center change in the back and it helped pretty well however the guy who qualfied behind me was much faster and picked his game more than i did. Athe end i qualfied 3rd but according to lap time's (Again minus 1st) i would of been 3rd however the guy who was in second got his fastest lap after 3mins, and in the the tamiya world's they run 3 min qualifing so i would of been second by 5 one hundreth's.. The main was pretty intersting. I was sitting 3rd and i almost got messed up in the start i went wide and 4th got under me but i cut deep inside and 4th would run into 2nd. 1st was way gone but i concentraited on my race the guy who was sitting 4th and tgot in the wreck, he tired to keep up with me but got into some accendent's and was shuffled back a few positions i had a prety good deal of real estate for second unit the last one minute and 30 seconds 3rd had caught up to me drastically due to the fact that he was running traction compound and CS-27 and i was running A's no traction compound at all by one minutei had to let 1st place go who was lapping everyone and 3rd was now only more than a car length behind i knew catching up to me is one thing getting by me is another. by 30 seoconds i very lightly tapped one of the corners but was able to matain my position at he last stragthaway 3rd tried to get under me at the finsh line(however he was more than one car length away) but clipped the corrner and his race was over. but i got and extra lap cause I made to the finish line faster. So tonight wasn't bad but i think i coud still get some more setup magic going.
I am going to give some thought what i should do for my next test. Maybe a race with new tires to see what happens.
-Lee
04-21-2007, 06:12 PM
#52
Originally Posted by Leester
anybody care to share? Anybody?
I have been following your experiment.
It is extremely hard to replicate the conditions that one might find at the Tamiya Worlds.
The carpet is new to the event. Through the practice rounds the bite is non-existent. You will be tempted to make set changes to get more bite out of the car. What a racer might end up running on in the quals and mains at the Tamiya Worlds will still be less bite than any of the surfaces you have been running on (Trackside) irrespective of wheter you use carpet additives or not. Fact is your test track already has been well used from what I understand
The Tamiya Worlds Endurance event adds a lot more bite to the carpet but still less than your test conditions. The delta between pre enduro and post is quite different. Bite will increase.
Having a chance to do it all over again. I would focus on setting up a car similar to last years GT2 winners car (TA05 - same setup has won the last 2 years), learn to maximize power from stick pack and non-rebuildable motors with a fixed gearing and practice best lap qualifying (first 2 min window).
The biggest adjustment was qualifying under the fastest lap format. In this race where power & motors are relatively fixed - qual position is everything.
This is a race where very few outrun the field. The folks that stay clean, mistake free and out of contact from other cars will do the best. Even if you find a way to go faster in the mains - traffic will be test of your patience but also remember that you have only a few minutes to to get up to the front.
As for bodies 95% of the racers there ran versions of the NSX. Consider the fact that all of the locals there dont use anything else. Satoshi-san probably has the best idea of what works there - he was running an NSX.
Last edited by MDawson; 04-23-2007 at 07:18 AM.
04-22-2007, 09:10 AM
#53
Originally Posted by MDawson
Lee,
I have been following your experiment.
It is extremely hard to replicate the conditions that one might find at the Tamiya Worlds.
The carpet is new to the event. Through the practice rounds the bite is non-existent. You will be tempted to make set changes to get more bite out of the car. What a racer might end up running on in the quals and mains at the Tamiya Worlds will still be less bite than any of the surfaces you have been running on (Trackside) irrespective of wheter you use carpet additives or not. Fact is your test track already has been well used from what I understand
The Tamiya Worlds Endurance event adds a lot more bite to the carpet but still less than your test conditions. The delta between pre enduro and post is quite different. Bite will increase.
Having a chance to do it all over again. I would focus on setting up a car similar to last years winners car (TA05 - same setup has won the last 2 years), learn to maximize power from stick pack and non-rebuildable motors with a fixed gearing and practice best lap qualifying (first 2 min window).
The biggest adjustment was qualifying under the fastest lap format. In this race where power & motors are relatively fixed - qual position is everything.
This is a race where very few outrun the field. The folks that stay clean, mistake free and out of contact from other cars will do the best. Even if you find a way to go faster in the mains - traffic will be test of your patience but also remember that you have only a few minutes to to get up to the front.
As for bodies 95% of the racers there ran versions of the NSX. Consider the fact that all of the locals there dont use anything else. Satoshi-san probably has the best idea of what works there - he was running an NSX.
I have been following your experiment.
It is extremely hard to replicate the conditions that one might find at the Tamiya Worlds.
The carpet is new to the event. Through the practice rounds the bite is non-existent. You will be tempted to make set changes to get more bite out of the car. What a racer might end up running on in the quals and mains at the Tamiya Worlds will still be less bite than any of the surfaces you have been running on (Trackside) irrespective of wheter you use carpet additives or not. Fact is your test track already has been well used from what I understand
The Tamiya Worlds Endurance event adds a lot more bite to the carpet but still less than your test conditions. The delta between pre enduro and post is quite different. Bite will increase.
Having a chance to do it all over again. I would focus on setting up a car similar to last years winners car (TA05 - same setup has won the last 2 years), learn to maximize power from stick pack and non-rebuildable motors with a fixed gearing and practice best lap qualifying (first 2 min window).
The biggest adjustment was qualifying under the fastest lap format. In this race where power & motors are relatively fixed - qual position is everything.
This is a race where very few outrun the field. The folks that stay clean, mistake free and out of contact from other cars will do the best. Even if you find a way to go faster in the mains - traffic will be test of your patience but also remember that you have only a few minutes to to get up to the front.
As for bodies 95% of the racers there ran versions of the NSX. Consider the fact that all of the locals there dont use anything else. Satoshi-san probably has the best idea of what works there - he was running an NSX.
Thanks mark for your comment.
Now i would like to say something about what you said on my expirience.
Before i did any testing with no traction compound i wanted to know what the races look like and how the car handles on the tamiya carpet track. I bought the DVD for the 2006 tamiya world championship and what i noticed was the cars got pretty loose mid corner so i believed i had an idea on what to expect. When i got to the track the video did not let me down the car was loose in mid corner and was a good example of what the video showed. I believe if you can setup your car to be not loose mid corner while maintaining a very good amount of corner speed better than everone else you'll be pretty good. As for the track addetive JTG it doesn't work nearly as good as paragon. if i raced on a track with paragon the car would be much more grippy even without traction compound on the a tires. To me i think racing at trackside with no traction compound is just as loose, little or no different, than the tamiya track. But i could be wrong and if i am wrong how could i simulate the tamiya track in japan at trackside that uses JTG. probably put powder on my tires? it's not a joke. i am acatally thinking of doing it. If you excuse me i have to help my dad out in the yard. Please respond to my message. It is grealty appreciated.
-Lee
04-22-2007, 07:53 PM
#54
Originally Posted by Leester
Thanks mark for your comment.
Now i would like to say something about what you said on my expirience.
Before i did any testing with no traction compound i wanted to know what the races look like and how the car handles on the tamiya carpet track. I bought the DVD for the 2006 tamiya world championship and what i noticed was the cars got pretty loose mid corner so i believed i had an idea on what to expect. When i got to the track the video did not let me down the car was loose in mid corner and was a good example of what the video showed. I believe if you can setup your car to be not loose mid corner while maintaining a very good amount of corner speed better than everone else you'll be pretty good. As for the track addetive JTG it doesn't work nearly as good as paragon. if i raced on a track with paragon the car would be much more grippy even without traction compound on the a tires. To me i think racing at trackside with no traction compound is just as loose, little or no different, than the tamiya track. But i could be wrong and if i am wrong how could i simulate the tamiya track in japan at trackside that uses JTG. probably put powder on my tires? it's not a joke. i am acatally thinking of doing it. If you excuse me i have to help my dad out in the yard. Please respond to my message. It is grealty appreciated.
-Lee
Now i would like to say something about what you said on my expirience.
Before i did any testing with no traction compound i wanted to know what the races look like and how the car handles on the tamiya carpet track. I bought the DVD for the 2006 tamiya world championship and what i noticed was the cars got pretty loose mid corner so i believed i had an idea on what to expect. When i got to the track the video did not let me down the car was loose in mid corner and was a good example of what the video showed. I believe if you can setup your car to be not loose mid corner while maintaining a very good amount of corner speed better than everone else you'll be pretty good. As for the track addetive JTG it doesn't work nearly as good as paragon. if i raced on a track with paragon the car would be much more grippy even without traction compound on the a tires. To me i think racing at trackside with no traction compound is just as loose, little or no different, than the tamiya track. But i could be wrong and if i am wrong how could i simulate the tamiya track in japan at trackside that uses JTG. probably put powder on my tires? it's not a joke. i am acatally thinking of doing it. If you excuse me i have to help my dad out in the yard. Please respond to my message. It is grealty appreciated.
-Lee
Just remember that there are a good list of guys you will have to get through first on the asphalt. And some of those guys have shown great skill at IIC and Snowbirds on the carpet.
Good luck
04-23-2007, 05:16 AM
#55
Thanks for the comment Mark.
Now some people may think i'm a little crazy But i am training to win this thing. I know that i havn't won the Northa American Finals yet but still i think it would be good if i got a taste of what they do out there in Japan. With a really good car and some good help I can pull off a victory. I'm not there yet but i would like to get a start. I'm planning on praticing tuesday. With my TA05.
-Lee
Now some people may think i'm a little crazy But i am training to win this thing. I know that i havn't won the Northa American Finals yet but still i think it would be good if i got a taste of what they do out there in Japan. With a really good car and some good help I can pull off a victory. I'm not there yet but i would like to get a start. I'm planning on praticing tuesday. With my TA05.
-Lee
Last edited by Leester; 04-23-2007 at 11:15 AM.
04-24-2007, 10:14 AM
#56
Lee,
I agree with Mark - the carpet at Tamiya Worlds is impossible to replicate. They picked out that carpet because it looks good in pictures, not because of performance or consistency.
After winning TCS nationals - I spent every weekend finding a low traction carpet setup at HobbyWorld Gilroy. I was lucky enough to force a bunch of friends to race with me. I handed out Tamiya A-tires and 23 turn motors to everyone. If they couldn't keep up, then we allowed takeoff-27's. If they still couldn't keep up, we allowed takeoff 27's and any 19 turn motor. It was close racing and I thought I had my 415 dialed for low traction carpet with no traction compound.
Then I got to Tamiya Japan.
First battery pack - my car was garbage. Months of testing in the USA was pretty much useless. There isn't much traction and the carpet feels different. I was driving a 23 turn with throttle control like a modified. I was lucky enough to TQ first round and finished 3rd overall and I attribute NONE of that to my setup (my setup sucked). I just wheeled it.
My advice - baby steps - work on winning TCS USA first and then worry about TCS worlds.
I agree with Mark - the carpet at Tamiya Worlds is impossible to replicate. They picked out that carpet because it looks good in pictures, not because of performance or consistency.
After winning TCS nationals - I spent every weekend finding a low traction carpet setup at HobbyWorld Gilroy. I was lucky enough to force a bunch of friends to race with me. I handed out Tamiya A-tires and 23 turn motors to everyone. If they couldn't keep up, then we allowed takeoff-27's. If they still couldn't keep up, we allowed takeoff 27's and any 19 turn motor. It was close racing and I thought I had my 415 dialed for low traction carpet with no traction compound.
Then I got to Tamiya Japan.
First battery pack - my car was garbage. Months of testing in the USA was pretty much useless. There isn't much traction and the carpet feels different. I was driving a 23 turn with throttle control like a modified. I was lucky enough to TQ first round and finished 3rd overall and I attribute NONE of that to my setup (my setup sucked). I just wheeled it.
My advice - baby steps - work on winning TCS USA first and then worry about TCS worlds.
04-24-2007, 08:16 PM
#57
thank you Linger.
Maybe we all can put our heads together to figure out how to conquer the Tamiya World's Track. Yes i know I have still have to win Tamiya USA. but i feel i like would get a special "personal start" on how to run on carpet with no traction compound. Here and there. and i'm still going to keep up this thread. Like Mr Dawson's saying said "preperation is where luck and opporunity meet" and i hope to work toward's a goal when i meet my luck it will show up as a pretty high school basketball girl. the more practice and setup information i believe, the better.
I deicided not to practice today cause i would like to get more information on lipo so i cold give it a try not not bring as much equipment to the track. So i can concentrait on some setup skills and not battery volatge. keep the comment's going people. It is truly appreciated.
-Lee
Maybe we all can put our heads together to figure out how to conquer the Tamiya World's Track. Yes i know I have still have to win Tamiya USA. but i feel i like would get a special "personal start" on how to run on carpet with no traction compound. Here and there. and i'm still going to keep up this thread. Like Mr Dawson's saying said "preperation is where luck and opporunity meet" and i hope to work toward's a goal when i meet my luck it will show up as a pretty high school basketball girl. the more practice and setup information i believe, the better.
I deicided not to practice today cause i would like to get more information on lipo so i cold give it a try not not bring as much equipment to the track. So i can concentrait on some setup skills and not battery volatge. keep the comment's going people. It is truly appreciated.
-Lee
05-02-2007, 12:06 PM
#58
All right. Update. Just got my 4800 Lipo batteries now i'm just waiting for my charger, Cause it's on back order. This time i will try New Tamiya A's with blue inserts while doing different setup changes. Might be a few weeks before i get out again. but maybe sooner. I mihgt just use my More more charger but it charges only at one amp.
-Lee
-Lee
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